Ok Man convicted of murder for killing a robber

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I know...it was a 16 yr old with a gun...or any other weapon...But I was once a disturbed youth...maybe I too was scum back then...glad people didn't react like you guys...I would not be typing this post....gee whiz...

Unless you've been down in the gutter it is hard to understand.

I n this case yes execution would be over the bend....

In this case the guy was down and out, injured and the guy came back and pumped 5 more into him....sounds extreme..


I have been as broke as you can get. No job, wife expecting. I was young then too. Even with those extreme circumstances I did not resort to armed robbery, breaking and entering etc. I see no valid excuse for a 16 year old to invade another persons home. Being armed makes it worse.

My home was invaded by two drug infested bums. Both kids. They were part of a crime ring. Extensive records prior to them invading my home. Had I been home there would not have been a trial.

I do NOT condone what the guy did after the invader was down. He should have NOT chased the other guy down the street or finished off the first one. That was just plain wrong. I can understand the emotion. I can understand just how mad he was. That does not justify his actions but that would be the reason I would not execute the guy.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I have been as broke as you can get. No job, wife expecting. I was young then too. Even with those extreme circumstances I did not resort to armed robbery, breaking and entering etc. I see no valid excuse for a 16 year old to invade another persons home. Being armed makes it worse.

My home was invaded by two drug infested bums. Both kids. They were part of a crime ring. Extensive records prior to them invading my home. Had I been home there would not have been a trial.

I do NOT condone what the guy did after the invader was down. He should have NOT chased the other guy down the street or finished off the first one. That was just plain wrong. I can understand the emotion. I can understand just how mad he was. That does not justify his actions but that would be the reason I would not execute the guy.

Unfortunately I ran with a very bad crowd and made some decisions I was not too proud of..

I think manslaughter would have been more acceptable...
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Unfortunately I ran with a very bad crowd and made some decisions I was not too proud of..

I think manslaughter would have been more acceptable...

Well, I am happy to see you got out of that mode. Many don't.

I too think that manslaughter would have been better. He should do time.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I agree that the sentence is asinine. And if you look at the Oklahoma definitions of the various classes of murder, it's even more asinine. Malice and Forethought Murder —the state must prove the defendant caused the death of a human with the deliberate intent to take away the life of a human being. That's cutting it close to be able to state that the pharmacist had the time to even develop malice (evil intent) and forethought (premeditation).

At best, it would seem that if you really, really wanted to convict him of murder, then it's First Degree Manslaughter, which is defined in part by Oklahoma law as being Heat of Passion Manslaughter —the state must prove the non-excusable or non-justified death of a human that was inflicted in a cruel and unusual manner while the defendant was in the heat of passion.

Except in this case, the passion was the passion of self defense, still in the heat of the moment. The shooting of the unconscious teen was non-excusable and non-justified, so it really fits better with First Degree Manslaughter than it does premeditated First Degree Murder.

It just seems to me that the people who entered the store with the intent of robbing it were the perpetrators, not the victims. But after a little more than 3 hours, the jury saw it differently.

I guess it didn't help matters for the defendant that the dead Antwun Parker wasn't armed, and that when the defendant returned to the store after chasing the armed robber (a 14 year old) he calmly but deliberately walked right past Parker in order to grab a second gun out of a drawer, which he then used to shoot Parker 5 times from 18-24 inches away. That's obviously a venting of frustration (passion) in a "Take THAT, you SOB" type of action. When you get stung by a wasp, you don't merely flick the wasp off your arm, you smash it to a pulp out of anger. Same thing.

I guess it also didn't help matters that the statement the defendant gave to the police was totally contradicted by the video, especially the part where the pharmacist stated that Ingram (the 14 year old) fired first. Turns out, Ingram never pulled the trigger.

The armed 14 year old who ran confessed to and was convicted of First Degree Murder (The death of a human occurred as a result of the defendant’s commission of one of several crimes. The state does not have to prove the defendant intended to cause the death.) And the two 40-somethings that talked the teens into robbing the store were also convicted of First Degree Murder, so there is a little justice there, anyway.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Well, I am happy to see you got out of that mode. Many don't.

I too think that manslaughter would have been better. He should do time.

I am just glad they did not throw the baby out with the bath water....:D

and I thank the liberal bleeding heart judge that believed in rehab before the firing squad....lol
 

Brisco

Expert Expediter
In this case the guy was down and out, injured and the guy came back and pumped 5 more into him....sounds extreme..

Read this article here about Kimberly Cunningham who had one of those "heat of the moment" times in her life and gunned down her brother-in-law.

Murder or Vigilante Justice? - ABC News

She not only emptied her gun while shooting him, she reloaded and emptied it again.

As Turtle pointed out above, Oklahoma has some pretty F'd up laws and had no choice but to charge him with First Degree Murder. Any other state, as in Tennessee where Kimberly killed her BIL, or even down here in Texas, this Pharmacist would NOT be a "Convicted First Degree Murderer" as he is in the State of Oklahoma. (Hell, In Texas, he would be considered a HERO - Of which I am sure he is in Oklahoma too by the Majority)

That Kimberly Cunningham story is very interesting. Do a Google for the "Snapped" episode this story was on. Watch it. I've seen it 2 or 3 times. Best part of the whole episode is when the Detective investigating the case said that the "Victim", Coy Hundley, uttered the most famous last words anyone could ever utter, and that was "What're Ya Gonna Do About It" when confronted by the mother of a little girl he molested. (allegedly molested :rolleyes:)

I feel this Pharmacists case will make it all the way to the Supreme Court if his Appeal is Denied, or if the Governor doesn't step in and undo this injustice forced upon him by the way the Laws are written in Oklahoma. We haven't heard the last of Jerome Ersland, trust me.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
According to the article..the jury had 3 options....1st degree murder or 1st degree manslaughter or acquittal.. A jury of his peers elected 1st degree murder.....
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
I am just glad they did not throw the baby out with the bath water....:D

and I thank the liberal bleeding heart judge that believed in rehab before the firing squad....lol

I am not sure judges think rehab is better although I am sure some do, its just cheaper than sending you to jail. I think that is what happened to me back when I was a scumbag and I even tried to push the jail sentence rather than rehab and probation.

Posted with my Droid EO Forum App
 

Brisco

Expert Expediter
According to the article..the jury had 3 options....1st degree murder or 1st degree manslaughter or acquittal.. A jury of his peers elected 1st degree murder.....

Hhmmm.....

Jurors had the option of finding Ersland guilty of first-degree manslaughter instead of murder, or of acquitting him.

The ABC article Life Sentence for Oklahoma Pharmacist Sparks Debate - ABC News is the only article I have ran across that shows 3 options.

Everything else I have read only mentioned "Convict or Acquit".

Still, the guy needs to be sentenced to something like 5-10 years, NOT LIFE. Period.....
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
From the same article...
Formal sentencing is set for July 11. Box said Friday he will ask Oklahoma County District Judge Ray C. Elliott to reschedule the formal sentencing for as soon as possible.

The judge could suspend part or all of the life term. If he doesn’t, Ersland will not be eligible for parole for more than 38 years.

This all might be premature...it appears the judge has quite a bit of leeway for sentencing....he may walk free yet...
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Based on just what's in the article, I'd have convicted Kimberly Cunningham of premeditated murder. She went to confront the man she believed had raped her daughter, with a loaded gun - not a good idea. Nor was the way she 'found out' about the alleged rape, by suggesting it to her daughter, and listing names for the child to identify the one to blame. Anyone knows that children can be highly suggestible, [especially when scared - and I bet the child was scared by Mom's anger] In cases of suspected abuse, they should be questioned only by persons trained to NOT suggest scenarios for the child to agree with. It didn't seem to occur to her that the child's changed behavior could have had any root cause other than sexual abuse, but it seems possible [to me] that the child could have been feeling guilty over some misbehavior on her own part, and gratefully took the opportunity Mom offered to be the 'victim', instead. It happens.
Nearly everything the woman claimed was basically her perception of events - I didn't see any proof of anything having actually happened as she believed it had, and people can jump to wrong conclusions in a hurry when they're emotional. If she thought the child was truthful, she should have gone to the authorities, not the man she believed was guilty, with a weapon in her purse.

 
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