Obamma Yupper

[sdelliott31]

Well I guess I was put in my place......several times. Oh well, I choose to believe what I believe. I'm here to make friends and learn not to dictate policy or force my beliefs on anyone. Gregg, you should have run for political office. . I think comparing any president (even though I think Bush screwed up this country) or any elected official to Hitler or Stalin is very disrespectful to the people that voted for that person and our country. I guess the 27 million people that voted in the democratic primaries were idiots. Thats a lot of idiots. I'll keep my opinions to myself, but really am interested in some honest hard debating between the two.

The Iraq war was started by us.....not the UN. In fact we thought we were bigger than the members of the UN. Maybe that is where some of the dislike for the arrogance of our country comes from. Iraq is a mess now. It is not stronger than 6 months ago. It was stronger before we attacked them. We could have kept them as a check and balance to Iran to keep the region stable.

Good luck to all of us. I guess I will email Nancy Pelosi and ask her to drop gas prices since it is all because of her.....Not the Repulicans that were cheating on their wives with their interns, Prostitutes, scamming money, making a mockery of congress, making their own rules. Maybe thats why there was change. It seemed like before there was more news about scandles than there was work being done.

 

[sdelliott31]

Someone brought up in the beginning that Obama won because of his race. I didn't vote for him in the primaries for that reason. I hope we are not afraid to vote for him because of that reason as well. That would be really sad.

 

[LDB]

sdelliott, none of the 27 million were idiots for voting in the democrat primary. There were choices to be made among the contenders and they made a choice. They'll only be idiots if they vote democrat in the November election. The red flag calling for that one was too big to resist. Seriously though, Pelosi and her bunch do have the control over pricing, to the extent we can control it. We can only control it to the degree we're self sufficient. That requires Pelosi et al doing what the caribou want and opening ANWR, Teddy et al doing what needs to be done and adding windpower offshore, multiple nuclear power plants etc. etc.. The Iraq war was started by Saddam's arrogance and refusal to comply with the UN, not by us.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Someone brought up in the beginning that Obama won because of his race. I didn't vote for him in the primaries for that reason. I hope we are not afraid to vote for him because of that reason as well. That would be really sad.

Only thing sadder is the many who will vote for him on account of "white guilt".

 

[sdelliott31]

Vote for the person. To me if you are voting for guilt, then don't vote.

I hear what you are saying LDB. I just wonder how Saddam's refusal to comply is so different then Iran snubbing our noses today on developing nuclear technology? To me Irans defiance is a lot more bothersome. Wiping Israel off the map and nothing being done about that? Oh well......this is a circle we can go around forever. I hope for alternatives to oil and windmills for electricity and to break free of so much control from OPEC.

 

[LDB]

It's similar and if there's war with Iran it will not be us who started it. It will be started by the lunatic whose name I can't spell. It isn't like we're trying to go to war with them. It's a possibility that may be unavoidable. The question is whether we'll have a leader or not. Obama isn't a leader. He's an appeaser. He's a capitulator. That lunatic may be crazy but he's smart and he'll know he can string Obama along with "negotiation" and "discussion" and all the baloney Obama is spouting and have more time to get where he wants before we'd act. That's why they held our embassy people 444 days until Reagan went in office. Carter = Obama, a horrible choice that had no business in the office.

 

[greg334]

Steven,
I am not trying to force anything on anyone, I am trying to get people to think for themselves - something of a lost art.

As for Obama, the guy has no good things about him with his record and if we want someone like that who on one hand says we need to pull out of Iraq to appease one group and then says we need to invade an ally to appease another group is dangerous.

We need someone with some more international savvy than to say some of the things he has said. It is scary to see another Carter and we must not elect him, but McCain is not much better.

 

[sdelliott31]

Gregg; No problem. Its easy to get a little riled up when you believe one way or another, so I apologize. To you and LDB, I was young when the Iran Hostage Affair happened and under Jimmy Carter. I really didn't follow politics until Clinton / Bush in 92. I would have been 19 then. So, while I feel a certain way, I am listening to what you guys are saying. I know you guys have lived through more than I (and no I don't mean that as an age slam at all). I think Veep choices could be very important in this election. Since none of us can predict the future, it will be interesting how years down the road, history views this time. I think it is a pivotal time for our country and the world. Before the just overall frustration with Bush, I had liked what McCain has had to say and him not being afraid to speak his mind. I like that he tried to fix campaign finances with Mcain / Feingold. I want someone who really cares about the country. I don't necessarily agree with negotiating with Iran, but it seems like they are doing what they want anyways, whether we talk to them or not. It doesn't help all the deals they have with Russia, so they will always vote against too strong of UN sanctions against Iran. It should be interesting anyways. But I am a little more confused than I was even a couple days ago. Gotta quit going to these websites

 

[LDB]

That confusion is some of reality working it's way in. I am very unhappy with Bush because he hasn't secured our sovereignty and security as he should have. He's not stupid as some say. He's not a smooth talker but that isn't because he's stupid and he's not stupid just because he's not an orator. McCain is not Bush. He's nowhere near perfect but he is his own man and not a clone.

Many people, and you give at least some of this aura, are against McCain not for who he is and his positions but because of the incorrect labelling as another Bush. To vote for someone completely unqualified for that reason is a terrible shame.

We don't need another Carter and sadly Obama isn't even up to that level. At least Carter had a pro-America background and inner circle. Carter is as dumb as Bush is accused of being and has no clue on some things, especially foreign policy and relations, but his primary advisers weren't bigoted racists.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

The problem I have is one soveriegn country telling another soveriegn country what to do....Why can't Iran develop nuclear power....everyone else has it...even them nutty Jews! It is interference of another countries boundaries. You guys hate the UN and you'll prolly come back with like the UN said no to nuclear for Iran and the U.S is just the enforcer....you can't have your cake and eat it too....

 

[LDB]

The problem isn't them having nuclear power it's them having nuclear weapons and that's where that lunatic is going. The U.N. did say no and we're part of the U.N. unfortunately so it's partly our responsibility to insure compliance. If their (whoever) sovereignty threatens ours, which nuclear weapons in Iran would, then I don't care about their sovereignty.

 

[greg334]

The problem I have is one soveriegn country telling another soveriegn country what to do....Why can't Iran develop nuclear power....everyone else has it...even them nutty Jews! It is interference of another countries boundaries. You guys hate the UN and you'll prolly come back with like the UN said no to nuclear for Iran and the U.S is just the enforcer....you can't have your cake and eat it too....

Leo, it is not nuke weapons grade material that can be used as a weapon, nuke fuel can do a lot of damage if it is used the right way.

OVM, the problem is this.

Iran is run not by the president of Iran but religious people. Unlike the US, Canada and even Israel, they lack any input from the people and even if they did the people are not who controls the government. With Israel, there are still checks and balances that prevent them from wiping out other countries when attacked but I would think that if Iran said we are launching in ten minutes, 3 minutes later Iran would not exist anymore above ground.

I think that the real solution for Iran is to be strong, fiish the job we started in Iraq and not back down, they won't escalate anything when they know that China and Russia both still have serious stakes in the Middle East. Which brings up another point, some of the fanatics who are funded by Iran want to over throw the Saudis and this would stop the flow of oil from the middle east to China.

Do you think that China would sit by while the entire place glows for 300 years? I think china would launch an all out operation against Iran if there was such a move to stop the flow of oil. They are needing every drop they get and will not tolerate a mess in the middle east. Right now we are the watchdogs there, Israel, Saudis and even Dubai are happy we are there to keep Iran in check.

The one thing that many who read this don't think about it the cultures that we are dealing with. Most if not all view some forms of compassion as being weak. They want to deal with Strong countries, not one that will compromise out of the gate, they want to barter into their position.

And this is one thing that makes me fear Obama because he has no clue what he is doing on foreign affairs, isn't he the one who said that "Iran, Cuba, Venezuela — these countries are tiny compared to the Soviet Union. They don’t pose a serious threat to us the way the Soviet Union posed a threat to us."? he has no clue that the Soviets were still reasonable and we worked with them on several issues that we can't with these other three. He will make us look weaker than Carter and cause us more problems in the long run with his idea of what foreign policy should be like.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

So when the UN says the US is not in compliance concerning Katrina.....you should do as they say?

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Greg...Leo...I understand what you say when your meaning the US MUST take a strong stance with Iran and puff up its feathers....

You guys have 1 year and 10 months to Americanize me....clock is ticking...

 

[greg334]

So when the UN says the US is not in compliance concerning Katrina.....you should do as they say?

NO! Where is the outright racist policies that separate Katrina people from the rest of the population? There is none. So what is the UN doing by saying to us that we need to have them come in and fix our problems when the problems don't exist in the first place.

The UN has more to be concern about than the US what we do for our own people. They want our money, they want to directly tax us to pay for their programs which all of it is against our constitution. It has for the most part been very ineffective organization in preventing problems as it wants the world to believe and in reality it has yet to live up to any of the things that the founders wanted to do.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

So Greg you say the UN is basically useless.....and Leo says to quote, "it's partly our responsibility to insure compliance." He's speaking of the UN saying NO to nukes in Iran.

Which is it? So you don't agree with the UN about Katrina and racism BUT you agree about Iran because it suits the US's policys?
Would seem to me that when the UN disagrees with the US or makes the US look bad they are the enemy BUT when they agree with the US they are ok....

 

[greg334]

No OVM, I don't agree with it at all. Whether it is the body politic to create sanctions or it is doing relief work in some in describe place, the UN can be replaced with individual countries that actually be more effective in the long run. They were not at all effective in Korea, Congo, and other places, so they really won't be in Iran.

I say this from experience seeing first hand what the UN claims to do while not doing it. I know that this organization, this non-entity acting as a sovereign nation but forcing itself into places it shouldn't be at the same time running from places it should, is itself in a dire need of an overhaul from the top person to the guy who sweeps the floor.

The human rights commission is one thing that is made up of human rights abusers. We have nothing to do with it and in fact should have completely cut funding off to the UN for the mess they allowed to happen. But just to allow people who are openly hateful towards our country to come here to find problems with it is also a waste of our tax money, which is what is used to fund the UN.

The issue of Katrina is a perfect example, we as a country didn't ignore the people, we have had serious problems getting the right help to them but there was absolutely no racism involved, there was no media blackout (even though the media failed to help people and ignored the pleas of them) and as a nation we didn't say "oh well, too bad New Orleans is gone". We did what the UN should have done in Africa and further more we did with with back to back hurricanes. So what business is it of the UN's to come here and claim we are abusing our citizens when they ignore the rest of the world?

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Sorry... but when the UN has China, Saudi Arabia, Cuba, Pakistan, and South Africa on their Human Rights Council, who looks like the idiot? The US voted against creating that council because of countries like that being on it. Then we withdrew from it for the same reason. These countries are allowed to police themselves, and WE'RE the bad guy???

BTW... what do YOU think we should've done after Katrina? Do you think we should've marched all the nice, law abiding ppl upstate somewhere, and put them in $200,000 homes? Do you know how much was allocated, then squandered? Do you know the term 'good intentions'? Do you know the corruption ppl had to deal with down there, most of it the police? If all you have on Katrina are snippets of CNN and CBC, I think you should look a little deeper.

The US has always been at the forefront of human rights around the world, when it came to the UN. It's about time we stopped playing those European pompadour games.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

So what business is it of the UN's to come here and claim we are abusing our citizens when they ignore the rest of the world?

Hmm... jealousy, maybe? Viva la France!

 

[OntarioVanMan]

ok fine Hawk....Then WHY even belong to the UN....make a statement about the double standards applied and withdraw...this squabbling about this and that is stupid...there must be a few other countries as well can see the hypocracy of the UN. It could fall like a deck of cards. The coalition is working much better together....