Obamma Yupper

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
hawk, you have to do what you feel convicted to do however I refuse to give a vote to Obama in absentia by "making a statement" with my vote. It might or might not have the effect of 1992 but that can't be risked. Obama is too great a threat so I'll do the unpleasant that needs to be done. I'll sleep better knowing I did what I could to save us from that disaster than I would knowing I'd made a statement.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
And if McCain ends up being the destroyer? How will you sleep then?

I'm still bitter about voting for more government for the last 8 years. I voted for a conservative and got someone just right of center (left of center in a lot of ways). I cannot, and will not, vote for someone who calls himself conservative, but doesn't have any ambition to pursue the conservative vote. The way I'm seeing it is he's calling a fart a flower, and it just ain't so. We have enough farts in Congress; we don't need them as president as well.

Leo... you place too much on your one vote. If you vote for McCain, rather than your conscience, he'll have 57,944,529 instead of 57,944,528. Texas will undoubtedly go for McCain. I don't know what you're worried about. Realistically, you won't be saving anyone from anything. And neither will I by voting the way I am.
 

sdelliott31

Expert Expediter
I personally believe that the country runs best with a Democrat for president and a Republican controlled Congress (See Bill Clintons first term, I believe) not the other way around. After Bush / Cheney, there is something about McCain I don't trust. I'm hoping that Obama will go after someone credible (Joe Biden) as his Veep, not Hillary. I think McCain will be wise enough to pronounce both of their negatives. Though on the Republican side, I sure do like Mike Huckabee, I think he would tone down the gruffness of McCain and make him more palatable. We need to focus at home not abroad. We are losing the middle class fast. Either that or bring Vladimir Putin over and let him run (overthrow) for President. He seems to get things done (assinations) :)
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
hawk, if it were that simple I'd side with you but 1992 proves my point. It isn't only me with my one vote, it's me, you and the millions of others who cummulatively would cause the damage. I can't do that. I know better.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
I contend that it's the millions of others who would vote for the status quo, for whatever reason, that cause the damage; not those who vote their creed. In that, I even respect those who vote for Hillary and Obama because they truly believe in them. Tho I don't believe most of them should even be voting. LOL
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I know what the socialist party is.I did have history in high school.And my Grandparent did serve in world war 2,and Purle harbor.

I don't know what WW2 has to do with the socialist party but it don't matter because if you know anything about socialism and embrace any of it's twisted and faltering ideals, then you block out truths and history. It is more complicated than what you cover in High school or where ever. I have a lot of classes on political ideologies and you can't learn a lot in a high school class.

I also know if the **** goverment would have done there job Sept 11,2001 would have not happend at that scale.

Well blame this on the clinton administration. Why? because of Jamie Gorelick under Janet Reno put out a memo (really an order) that there was not to be any inter-agency sharing of information and this led the FBI not being able to talk to the CIA and so on. ALSO even if this was allowed, the Clinton administration treated terrorism as a police issue, not a military issue and 8 months into a new administration was not enough time to straighten up something that happened 8 years prior (and in truth still is messed up).

I see the this country is doing what the pilgrams come over here to get away from.I stand stong on what the Consitution is,Not what the goverment today try's to admend it to be!

Well first thing is what pilgrims? if you are talking about the immigration issues we have today, blame that on Ted Kennedy and the 1965 immigration reform act, which opened the doors to every type of immigrant that we have been keeping out of the country since it was founded. That single piece of work is to blame for a lot of problems we have today and we should return to the pre-1955 immigration laws if we are to fix the problems like terrorism.

As for the constitution, I don't see any amendments that have been added and so far it has been trampled on by the people, the same people who say Bush is ignoring it.


Grandholm is the on the top five of Governer's this state has had.

You must be a fan, well I am not. She is the worst governor this state has ever had, worst than Blanchard and by all accounts I wish he was back in office. The top five would not ignore the problems the state has and anyone who voted for her, well they are dumb.


News is only 2% the what Goverment does.There is alot more red tape they cover up so you don't know.

Well I would agree with you but the problem with the media is that they are not Americans, they are world citizens and by saying that they do not deserve the protections of our constitution. Also they are very selective on what they present to the public, if they were not the issue of race with Obama would not be in the spot light.

I am involved in my local goverment. and i fight for my right and the people in my community.I have taken the county comminers to arbratration before for not posting meeting minutes,and not following the propper meeting rules. they lost and i will challange them again if they do it again.Are you involved in your community.

Good for you. But I will also ask you this, are you willing to recall your congressman and the two idiot senators we have in Washington?
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
s It would be like if Panther took a rookie D-unit operator with a year experience and made them CEO of the company.

Yeah, or had the janitor set up the computerized board system.

Wait a second....nah, couldn't be.
 

iceroadtrucker

Veteran Expediter
Driver
I am sorry I ever started this Thread I appoligize to everyone.

Again Im truely Sorry

Signed ICEROADTRUCKER
Please some one Chain this Thread again
all mods Im sorry I started this thread I realy am
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
No need to apologize or to close the thread. It's a good debate that's staying civil. That's what this forum is for.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Ya know I sit back and observe all you old timers, the keeper of the faith waving the flag of America the great...

What I see....is what WAS a great country imploding....

A 2 party system merging into 1. A Congress bought and paid for by huge corporations. As a matter of fact the whole system bought and paid for.....

You the "people" Sure call, write, do your thing, be active...
Capitol Hill needs a real time rude awakening by these "people"

The "people" need a REAL leader to wake them up and get things going. A massive "physical protest" like this country has never seen....a linch mop like in the old days!!
 

sdelliott31

Expert Expediter
IRT: No need to apologize. I enjoy politics and I think that debate is good. Sometimes people take things too far, but you can't feel bad expressing your view. Like sports, sometimes to adapt with the changing of times, their rules change. Now I'm not saying that the constitution is comparable to the MLB guidlines by any means. However, I do think that times have changed, and therefore some of the rules such as term limits, putting caps on spending, finding more ways to open up running for office, high office, available to more people. I think Obama beat HRC, simply because he spent double what she did. No matter who I support, the money is getting out of hand. I feel frustrated as a voter because no matter who is voted, universal health care, Iraq, fuel issues, will continue to get pushed off for another 4 years. Heck, by year 3, the president has to start planning for reelection again. I will still vote, because I believe everyone should, but in the end they are just puppets for whomever they received the most donations from. However, personally, I love the thread and to read everyones views, as long as we don't step too hard on someones toes.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I think Obama beat HRC, simply because he spent double what she did. No matter who I support, the money is getting out of hand. I feel frustrated as a voter because no matter who is voted, universal health care, Iraq, fuel issues, will continue to get pushed off for another 4 years. Heck, by year 3, the president has to start planning for reelection again. I will still vote, because I believe everyone should, but in the end they are just puppets for whomever they received the most donations from. However, personally, I love the thread and to read everyones views, as long as we don't step too hard on someones toes.

Well he beat her because of race and the guilt associate with a history that we should have moved on from by now as a country.

But in truth I don’t want a president who will provide me with socialized medicine, or pull out of Iraq or deal with the fuel issues, I want a leader who will lead the country to better times. All those issue will be fixed if we have real leadership in our government. If people truly believe that it is the government’s job to provide health care, we would have had it already but while the rest of the world is trying to figure out how to get off of theirs we are trying to provide something that is not needed at a federal level. Social Security needs to be looked at and a way to phase it out. It has outlived it's usefulness and has become the true burden of the country for generations to come. Why is it that we constantly that we can't have this out of control debt and how our grandchildren and so on will have to pay for it all the while not say a word about the billions of dollars that are being racked up with Social Security?

About Iraq, we may not be there much longer. For some reason many people don’t understand we are under the UN mandate and we have to leave if we don’t have an agreement with Iraq on what we are allowed to do and not allowed. The funny thing is Obama writes off Iraq with all the ignorance making stupid statements that shows he is not mature enough to lead. Do we really want this guy in office?

Ya know I sit back and observe all you old timers, the keeper of the faith waving the flag of America the great...

What I see....is what WAS a great country imploding....

A 2 party system merging into 1. A Congress bought and paid for by huge corporations. As a matter of fact the whole system bought and paid for.....

You the "people" Sure call, write, do your thing, be active...
Capitol Hill needs a real time rude awakening by these "people"

The "people" need a REAL leader to wake them up and get things going. A massive "physical protest" like this country has never seen....a linch mop like in the old days!!

OVM, I would agree with you but there is this problem that “Congress bought and paid for by huge corporations” statement – if this was true by anymeans we would have…..

Drilling in ANWR, in the gulf and other places

We would have wind farms along the coast

We would have zero taxes on corporate earnings

We would have no regulations in the airline industry or in other industries that are heavily regulated

We would have a completely deregulated banking industry

We would have the FTC and the SEC abolish

I don’t buy into the congress has been bought cr*p because it hasn’t happened. The real problem is that people think that big business elects them to office and so on but the truth is that every company with a PAC has to depend on the people who work there that vote in order to make an issue.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I knew I could count on you to hold the faith...

BUT as long as corporations can make huge contributions that politician owes them.....

There should be a cap on contributions....that way maybe the ordinary citizen can run.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I don't understand.....SS works in Canada and it is now in a surplus....it actually makes money for the government...many,many people are outliving thier years that they expected and need this subsidy...

My wife lived in Canada for 8 years and now is a proponent of some form of healthcare here, she now understands that it IS NOT a government handout.....Canadians pay in everyway into the system....the only thing the government does is administer the money. You Americans think otherwise like it's free....it's not believe me they collect for it at every level...just you don't get a bill from the insurance company quarterly for a riduclous amount. and have stupendous deductables.
 

sdelliott31

Expert Expediter
Well he beat her because of race and the guilt associate with a history that we should have moved on from by now as a country.

But in truth I don’t want a president who will provide me with socialized medicine, or pull out of Iraq or deal with the fuel issues, I want a leader who will lead the country to better times. All those issue will be fixed if we have real leadership in our government. If people truly believe that it is the government’s job to provide health care, we would have had it already but while the rest of the world is trying to figure out how to get off of theirs we are trying to provide something that is not needed at a federal level. Social Security needs to be looked at and a way to phase it out. It has outlived it's usefulness and has become the true burden of the country for generations to come. Why is it that we constantly that we can't have this out of control debt and how our grandchildren and so on will have to pay for it all the while not say a word about the billions of dollars that are being racked up with Social Security?

About Iraq, we may not be there much longer. For some reason many people don’t understand we are under the UN mandate and we have to leave if we don’t have an agreement with Iraq on what we are allowed to do and not allowed. The funny thing is Obama writes off Iraq with all the ignorance making stupid statements that shows he is not mature enough to lead. Do we really want this guy in office?



OVM, I would agree with you but there is this problem that “Congress bought and paid for by huge corporations” statement – if this was true by anymeans we would have…..

Drilling in ANWR, in the gulf and other places

We would have wind farms along the coast

We would have zero taxes on corporate earnings

We would have no regulations in the airline industry or in other industries that are heavily regulated

We would have a completely deregulated banking industry

We would have the FTC and the SEC abolish

I don’t buy into the congress has been bought cr*p because it hasn’t happened. The real problem is that people think that big business elects them to office and so on but the truth is that every company with a PAC has to depend on the people who work there that vote in order to make an issue.

I completely disagree. First off it is your opinion that Barack won because of race. I know the voting was very devisive, but HRC being a woman, people not trusting "Slick Willy" had a lot to do with it. Plus I think a stump could run and get votes as long as it wasn't a vote for Bush / McCain policies. Look at the record turnouts. I would say 19 million people believe Barack Obama can be a leader. I think if you look at the economic plans of both Obama and McCain, Obama wants to make sure there is a middle class. You said you need a leader to fix the issues, not health care, Iraq, Oil, Social Security........are those not the issues facing all of us. We need to revise the tax codes to hold the "Independently Wealthy" accountable, not paper losses, but they should hold the highest tax burden. Bush is so abrasive that he has alienated America from the rest of the world. If we just focus on the needs of our people and quit meddling in other countries issues, we possibly will have real allies in the future. And if you don't believe congress and politicians are not owned by PAC's which in turn are owned by major corporations Board of Directors, not the common employee, rather a group of directors that get multi million dollar bonuses every year and then donate that to their local congressman to get their issues passed, then you have missed the millions and millions of dollars spent on TV ads and the related in running these campaigns. A small percentage is by the common person. Look at the oil companies, Congress was harder on Roger Clemens than getting answers out of the Oil Companies CEO's about their record profits, while the rest of us spend our hard earned money to feed them. This country is becoming a 2 class country. We need to fix this problem.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I knew I could count on you to hold the faith...

BUT as long as corporations can make huge contributions that politician owes them.....

There should be a cap on contributions....that way maybe the ordinary citizen can run.

Actually there are caps, there are a lot of rules that are there but for every rule, there are ways around it. I would suggest you learn about McCain-Feingold to see what they have done to make a mess out of things.

I don't understand.....SS works in Canada and it is now in a surplus....it actually makes money for the government...many,many people are outliving thier years that they expected and need this subsidy...

My wife lived in Canada for 8 years and now is a proponent of some form of healthcare here, she now understands that it IS NOT a government handout.....Canadians pay in everyway into the system....the only thing the government does is administer the money. You Americans think otherwise like it's free....it's not believe me they collect for it at every level...just you don't get a bill from the insurance company quarterly for a riduclous amount. and have stupendous deductables.

OVM, when you talk about special interest, this is the one example that you can take apart and see how government has ‘given’ to the people who are part of the ‘less unfortunate’. Social Security was to be a supplement, not a primary means of support and the more you give to the masses, the more power you gain.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I completely disagree. First off it is your opinion that Barack won because of race. I know the voting was very devisive, but HRC being a woman, people not trusting "Slick Willy" had a lot to do with it. Plus I think a stump could run and get votes as long as it wasn't a vote for Bush / McCain policies. Look at the record turnouts. I would say 19 million people believe Barack Obama can be a leader. I think if you look at the economic plans of both Obama and McCain, Obama wants to make sure there is a middle class.

Sorry dude, Obama is an inexperienced senator who has been groomed by Chicago political machine and has been presented as the second coming of Christ to save the country. He has produced nothing as a senator, he has been clear that he is an extension of the Kennedy policies, which are far worst than Bush’s and he has had a questionable past with people like Wright, Ayers and Rezko. It don’t matter what excuses are being made for Wright, there is none for being associated with Ayers who is the equal to McVie and Rezko is typical Chicago. Do you want a president with association like these?

Race is THE issue, it wasn’t made an issue until the media and some people made it an issue. It has been clear the moment the question was made “is America ready for a black man as a president” and to the point that “we have made history by electing a black president” – if this was not about race, why the h*ll are these questions being raised?

History was made over and over but this is not now. He has not even been officially nominated.

I listened to Obama supporters and volunteers complain that this country is racist due to the opposition that they have encountered over trying to get people to vote for him. Not about race?

I read several pieces from professors and physiologists who are democrat and who want to see Obama win that explain what they see as a clear movement based on people who are voting for him to; make history and to “…lift the guilt off of the shoulders of the average American over 300 years of slavery.”

Obama and his wife are elitist, they hold the middle class in contempt and don't care about us.

You said you need a leader to fix the issues, not health care, Iraq, Oil, Social Security........are those not the issues facing all of us. We need to revise the tax codes to hold the "Independently Wealthy" accountable, not paper losses, but they should hold the highest tax burden. Bush is so abrasive that he has alienated America from the rest of the world. If we just focus on the needs of our people and quit meddling in other countries issues, we possibly will have real allies in the future.

Amazing, we need a leader who will not kowtow to the minority who needs things in life, but a leader who will bring prosperity to the country, not to a select individuals based on some study or census.

We don’t need to revise any tax code to hold anyone
accountable, accountable for what?

You know under their idea of rich, you are rich. You own too much and haven't paid enough. Well if you are so convinced that it is wrong for the rich not to pay their fair share, write a check to the IRS.

The labor of the people is already taken away through the present tax system and it is used to control the economy and prevents people from moving up. It is a form of control and revising anything leads to more control and more power for people like Obama and Kennedy and others who don't care about you or I.

We are not alienated, we are targeted. You seem to not understand that we don’t need the world as much as they need us. I think that you fallen into the same trap and listen to the rhetoric of the idiot left.

And if you don't believe congress and politicians are not owned by PAC's which in turn are owned by major corporations Board of Directors, not the common employee, rather a group of directors that get multi million dollar bonuses every year and then donate that to their local congressman to get their issues passed, then you have missed the millions and millions of dollars spent on TV ads and the related in running these campaigns. A small percentage is by the common person. Look at the oil companies, Congress was harder on Roger Clemens than getting answers out of the Oil Companies CEO's about their record profits, while the rest of us spend our hard earned money to feed them. This country is becoming a 2 class country. We need to fix this problem.

Well I don’t know about you, but I have been part of a PAC with the largest pharma company and there was no way that the board or any upper management could make that impact. Some of the issues we worked on could not have been done without the voters within the company to speak up to their representative. One other thing you and many others forget, companies don’t vote.

Roger Clemens belongs to a bigger organization than does Exxon – baseball. Baseball needs to lose it’s exemption and forced to become a business, not a monopoly. The oil companies (which are not monopolies) should not be put on the spot until you and I vote out the same people who prevent them from finding and using our resources and stop forcing them from buying oil from our enemies. We are the one who is at fault for the high price of oil.
 

sdelliott31

Expert Expediter
OVM: I did not mean to suggest that Universal Healthcare was free. I did not mean it that way. I would be willing to pay my fair share. I feel badly for the friends and others in our country that cannot afford it for whatever reason they cannot, companies don't offer it or what have you. I have heard some negative weeks about universal healthcare in Canada (length of time before you are seen by a doctor, etc.) I just think it would be more of a benefit to small business expansion and growth not to have all that burden on their shoulders, and to families to be put in a bigger pool, that it might be cheaper for these families that work in business with few employees that therefore have higher premiums because of the smaller pool of people. Again, JMHO.

I am a believer in Social Security, but believe the "trust fund" has been used for government spending not retirement benefits, therefore have failed our seniors

As far as the rest of this post by Gregg; I read your points of view and its like noone else is allowed a point of view. I don't want to say anything else because it is getting too personal. IMHO, I do believe anyone can do a better job than Bush has, I do believe someone has to come in and take care of our country first and quit worrying about foreign affairs. I think we are sending our "lesser jobs" overseas. I believe we need Universal Healthcare (and pay for it) I respect John McCain a great deal as a person and politician, and for his sacrifice for me by serving his country. I really like a guy like Mike Huckabee, who gives the sense of not being the "Washington Beltway Politician". I just feel that Barack Obama, is the change that we need right now. No matter who is elected president, I hope that they are voted in, not because of race, or not because of race, but because we all feel they or the ticket would do a better job. I believe Bush made a mistake in Iraq and has spent his entire two terms trying to defend himself. Iran is the country that scares me and now there are no real resources to keep them in check. We almost have to stay, though I don't want to, just to keep Iran from infiltrating Iraq and becoming a bigger threat to Israel. Its a can of worms I think we all can agree to that.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Actually there are caps, there are a lot of rules that are there but for every rule, there are ways around it. I would suggest you learn about McCain-Feingold to see what they have done to make a mess out of things.



OVM, when you talk about special interest, this is the one example that you can take apart and see how government has ‘given’ to the people who are part of the ‘less unfortunate’. Social Security was to be a supplement, not a primary means of support and the more you give to the masses, the more power you gain.

Greg and others not in the know....Canada has a two part system
1. Canada Pension Plan for short CCP....this is where everyone that works pays into....which again is divide into 2 parts
IF your pension income does not meet the poverty level there's.
Canada Pension Suppliment...this tops off your CCP called for short a suppliment check.

2. Old Age Pension....for people who have not contributed to CCP....in short a seniors welfare check.

CCP is like your SS... wage based.


CCP years ago when it like your SS was going broke...

CCP is now almost a separate entity...it owns property or shares of....like Skydome, Eaton Centre ....it also invests in the money markets such as the Teachers Retirement Fund which is the most respected and money making Mutuals going....
Since the revamp CCP is now in a surplus and completely funded by the people who contribute and thier investments.
 
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sdelliott31

Expert Expediter
OVM: I did not know any of that, very interesting.

Gregg: One thing I think you point out and could be the crux of everything, and I said it as well that I hope that Barack is not being voted for to make "history". My vote for him will not be for that reason. I really am interested over the coming months that I hope Barack engages McCain in his request for weekly debates, or town hall meetings. McCain is accused by his own party at times of being too liberal, and nobody has accused him of lying to anyone, so I don't feel he is a Bush flunky. I think back to the Bush Sr / McCain battles back in 88. I don't want history. I want a change. It is hard not to correlate unemployment being high, the foreclosure market because of predatory lending, and seeing people losing everything and not wanting to see change.

However, I do look at my income tax refund from this year and am glad to have it. We are not rich by any means. My wife is a special education coordinator and I run Panther vans, we help our parents out, and our drivers make more than I do a week, which I'm not complaining about. I do this because I have a daughter with severe health issues and it allows me a way to stay home and help her. But we live paycheck to paycheck and times are getting tight for us as well. However, if there was a plan out there for health care, a revision to the tax code to maybe everyone paid in and eliminated income tax, I don't know......I'm just saying I would want to do my share. Whatever politician can make the country "Prosper" thereby its citizens would then be prospering, I am for, I don't care the race, religion or color of his or her skin. I believe America is targeted as well, but is it because we have meddled in other countries affairs? Is that what we should be doing? I mean we think we can solve thousands of years of hate in the Arab world. I don't think we can, and I don't think that is something we should be doing.

I still think this was a good thread that was started. Takes your mind off of the daily grind.
 
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