Obamma Yupper

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Back to topic...since I can't vote yet....

It has come down to 2.....

Obama...McCain...which evil?

I'd pick Obama....I can't -won't list all the reasons just too much info....

Voting for McCain just because he was a war heroe doesn't cut it....theres 1,000's around this country now that would deserve the same vote.
 

sdelliott31

Expert Expediter
Right now, I'd go Obama, but am willing to listen.

Anybody think ole Bill looked haggered and washed out on the campaign trail. Maybe he is doing some hard living. There's an interesting article on Cnn.com right now about why they think Bill killed Hillary's election bid. Poor lady has put up with a lot of stuff from him.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
the way i sees it....if McCain is going to pick up any more voters he'll have to do some backtracking aka flipflopping abit and that could backfire and hurt him as well.....
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Obama is a disaster in the making that will make Jimmy Carter look like a genius. Obama has no experience. He only has charisma and good speech making capabilities. Clinton's national security guy was on the radio a couple of days ago. While he didn't praise Bush as the best thing ever he very clearly defended the position taken in Iraq, pointing out that Bush was no different than many many other world leaders, a number of whom didn't want to be there but knew it was necessary.

sdelliott, you say you are living paycheck to paycheck. When Obama gets in and takes another 20-30% of those paychecks how are you going to get by then? You're concerned about Iran, and rightfully so, so what happens when Obama gets in and has his little tea parties with that lunatic? Hitler had tea parties with Chamberlain and others. Spineless appeasement works so well it's no wonder Obama wants to go for it again.

Clinton created a lot of this mess when he dismantled the military and intelligence agencies as well as prohibiting sharing information between agencies. We likely wouldn't have had 9/11 if it weren't for him. He'll go down in history as a major hawk once we see Obama's performance. If you liked 9/11 you'll love what we can look forward to with Obama.

Obama will not appoint judges to the Supreme Court. Any nominee of his that makes it to the bench will be an unelected legislator.

Worse (Clinton) has dropped out. That leaves us with Bad and Worst as our two choices. McCain is a mediocre choice at best. We'd be better off with Fred Thompson or Huckabee or Paul.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Leo...you want to take on Iran? Why? More war? Iran won't be such a cake walk....

Pop quiz.....

Hillary, Obama and McCain were on a boat. The boat sank in a big storm. There was no lifeboat...

The Question: Who was saved?





The Answer: America!!!!:p
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I wish there would never be another war for us or any nation. I don't "want" to take on Iran. I merely realize the threat that Iranian lunatic poses and the abject failure Obama portends for U.S. foreign policy as a dove and an appeaser.

Everyone who likes $5 diesel more than the $2 diesel we had 3 years ago raise your hand. OK, everyone with their hand raised, vote Obama. You'll get to go from happy now to ecstatic in a couple of years.
 

sdelliott31

Expert Expediter
The Iranians are lunatics. Agreed. The rhetoric they get away with is scary. I wish Iraq was stronger, there would be some balance there. We "helped" Iraq in the 80's during the Iran - Iraq war. I think we went after the wrong nation......however if we just left well enough alone. When Clinton left office, didn't we have a balanced budget? I'm afraid for my kids in 10 to 20 years what they will be facing. But I still believe we have to take care of affairs at home before abroad. Spend some of this missle defense money on creating jobs and the homeless. No I don't like the fuel prices, but I attribute that to Bush. I believe the speculators will have the prices go down when the rest of the world sees that we have a president that isn't so confrontational, no matter who it is.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Fuel prices and Bush are apples and oranges. Bush is not to "blame" for the prices being where they are. Look first to worldwide demand and usage. Look next at who has been in charge and the "change" that was elected 2 years ago. Way down the line, look at Bush. These prices are a good indicator of what voting for "change" will get you. We "changed" to Pelosi and her crowd. It's the last year, under "change", that has been poor. Vote "change" in November and today will look like a bonanza day compared to 36 months from now.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I know your an American Leo and speak from your views...BUT I think the rest of the World is ALSO tired of all this U.S. bullcrap and save the world bull....we want stability the U.S only wants for itself and will get it by force. If not careful the U.S will find itself outside looking in....
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
I think that "save the world bull" is welcome by most of the countries who don't have the resources, or don't want to get involved. They admonish the US in public; but in private, are thanking God we are doing what we're doing.

And to say stability is all the US wants? That's bull! Since Bush and recent presidents are all for this World Government crap, we've been anything BUT selfish. Let me ask you something... Who is ALWAYS the first to come to the aid of a country after a natural disaster; usually before said country can mobilize its own relief efforts? Having numerous aircraft carriers around the globe enables what we do for relief. Here's another question... Who is it that is always there to pick up someone else's mess? WWI, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, the Gulf War (and the resulting Iraq War). These were not OUR wars. We got into them to pull someone's can out of the fire... including Canada's. Or perhaps you'd like that large city on the Pacific to be called Vancouvasaki?

I'm not happy about us being the world's police force. But when you look at it, no one else wants the job... especially the UN. We're the big guy who continues to protect everyone else's interests (usually European), even under scrutiny.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
If you hadn't come to the BIG parties it woulda got done, just take longer...we don't need it shoved down the proverbal throat to justify an unwarranted unprovoked attack/invasion of another country....Iraq

Yeah ok first in everything...big deal all that does is give bragging rights....Look what we did..yada yada....

BTW...Thanks for the help anyways at the BIG parties:)
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
For what it's worth, I'd rather the US let worthless little banana dictatorships rot after a hurricane or earthquake.

Oh... and for a little remedial history: Churchill asked US for help. How long do you think the British Empire would've lasted without lend/lease, and our eventual intervention? WWI I agree would've eventually been won without us (or a likely stalemate). But without us in WWII, you'd be eating Kraut and Sushi at McSiegfreid's.

And it has less to do with bragging rights than it has to do with spreading OUR wealth to the less fortunate of the world. Something else I don't agree with. And usually it's done without notoriety of the yada yada yada.

Out of curiosity, OVM... if Canada produces enough oil to cover its own consumption, why are their gas prices higher than ours?
 
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OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I apologize Leo and Hawk......I was just pullin your chains, playing devils advocate so to say.....
Its a Saturday night and it's boring....get your testosterone up?;)
 

mypie

Seasoned Expediter
Yep... he's no Bush or Clinton, he's closer to Castro or Stalin.

Bush has been like Hitler! What a looser! Totally Stuck On Stupid! Bush has destroyed everything this country was founded on! McCain ditto! :mad:

Obama will make a great president! Restore properity of the middle-class, get the stinkin' lobbiest out of DC and return the government to the people as the founding fathers envisioned it.

There has never been any president that has lied more than Bush and destroyed our Constitution. McCain is an idiot!
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Hawk....Can. oil is sold on the world market same like your West Texas crude both if not on the world market would sell for around $75 a barrel. It's like I said in another thread its too bad we can't be just a bit more conservative and then we could set our own price...but alas the oil lobby would fight that....


In history I kinda remember the U.S threatened an embargo on Japan and provoked the attack on Pearl...If it weren't for you guys, Europe had only the Germans to fight....Your government was only too happy to sell arms to Great Britian and profit from the war....you only got into it because Japan attacked you...
The American government was asked for help as early as 1940 and request denied....But I also remember British and Canadian troops in Burma and the Phillapines because the U.S was getting their butts whipped as well....
SO all things being equal it was a collective effort on everyones part.

I know all you Americans were brainwashed from birth that you saved the world and where would the world be without ya's...
To tell ya, the world was here long before America.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I guess it's nice to have rose colored eyeballs so you don't need the glasses. Just the $1.2 Trillion dollar carbon tax, to solve a problem that doesn't exist, that Obama would surely approve and sign will leave nothing but coinage in our pockets.
 
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Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Provoked or not, we didn't fire the first shot. Should we have kowtowed to Japan the same way the rest of the world thinks we should to the terrorists? What about Iran? Who would stand up to them on the question of nukes?

And as far as Britain not messing with Japan till we got into it... I seem to remember Japan closing in on Australia, New Zealand, and India before then.

I will agree with one thing... we waited too long to give help to Britain. FDR was a stubborn idiot. Churchill had Stalin pegged for what he was, and FDR thought he was a good guy... most likely cause FDR, himself, was a closet socialist.

Of course, every country will indoctrinate their chirlins in a patriotic fervor. At least we used to. Now, the kids don't even know the Pledge of Allegience, for the most part. Our kids are taught about the evil we plagued about the world... Hiroshima and Nagasaki for example. It's all touchy-feely bullcrap. Throughout history, we have done what we needed to do to keep freedom alive throughout the world. Maybe if ALL children were taught the truth, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Hawk...Agreed....I have my tilt from my countries patroitism and you yours...bottom line is at least we've learned...kids to-day have no idea...I am going to be right confused when I become a U.S. citizen...
 

sdelliott31

Expert Expediter
Interesting posts since yesterday......I love the bold T in Trillion LDB.

I again just think that with our country needing to take care of some of its issues we need to quit focusing on trying to govern the rest of the world. Yes, someone mentioned us being the first to help in crisis, no doubt about it.....but look at Myanamar, they as their own sovereign country refused our help. Whether its right or wrong, why do we think it is our right to say so. Maybe not helping for awhile, will not make us so threatening to other countries and calm tensions down all over the world. But by doing that refocus our money and strength on our own problems become an example again. Pelosi didn't have anything to do with the gas increase, shoot that was happening before her. It didn't seem like a big deal when it was going from a dollar to two dollars but that increase started shortly after 9/11.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I again just think that with our country needing to take care of some of its issues we need to quit focusing on trying to govern the rest of the world.

I can’t help but be frustrated hearing this over and over again.

We have not been sticking our nose in other countries without any reason since the 40’s. The fact that we are asked to be in most places and be part of things like NATO, does not mean we have to be there. We get things in exchange for our presents and in most cases this actually benefits all parties involved.

The internal problems are and will always be an issue but are not the fault of the president or the congress for that matter but the problem that we the people are too stupid and complacent to do anything about it. We vote the same people into office and give them the power to do things to us but then we blame the president who has nothing to do with the issues we face in our daily lives.

Yes, someone mentioned us being the first to help in crisis, no doubt about it.....but look at Myanamar, they as their own sovereign country refused our help. Whether its right or wrong, why do we think it is our right to say so. Maybe not helping for awhile, will not make us so threatening to other countries and calm tensions down all over the world.

I also get very frustrated with this idea that we are forcing others to take our help. Let’s be very frank about Burma, the UN, not the US but the UN was trying to find a way to invade Burma and take over the government to ‘aid’ the people. We stood on the sidelines and worked through our diplomats to find a way to aid the people but we didn’t. China did and so did a few other countries. But my point is that the UN, not the US, has been doing a lot of things that they should not be doing, which causes us, the US to react and to provide military assistance and aid and then we get blamed.

Iraq, for all it is worth is not Bush’s war, it is our war. Iraq was caused not by the US but by the UN, go and learn what resolutions have been passed and what we were asking the UN to let us do back in the early 90’s.

No one is threatened by us.

Oh and one other thing, I was reading a request from the international Red Cross, it seems that they are rather ****ed off at the UN because they are going into places that the UN will not go into and are running out of money. I think we need to shift every dime from the UN to the IRC to support the work they do.

But by doing that refocus our money and strength on our own problems become an example again. Pelosi didn't have anything to do with the gas increase, shoot that was happening before her. It didn't seem like a big deal when it was going from a dollar to two dollars but that increase started shortly after 9/11.

Well Pelosi and congress has EVERYTHING to do with the high prices we have today. While other countries are providing incentives for their oil companies to drill and find more natural resources, our congress refuses to let us even explore at the same time blaming the oil companies for the high prices. The bigger issue is we set aside ANWR to explore and drill for oil but we can’t touch it. Ecologically speaking it is nothing in the bigger picture of things and there is no wildlife or even anyone visiting that part of the area to be affected by using the area for Oil but congress will not permit anyone to go up there, so I ask why are we being held hostage by our own congress if Pelosi and congress has nothing to do with the price of oil?

In history I kinda remember the U.S threatened an embargo on Japan and provoked the attack on Pearl...If it weren't for you guys, Europe had only the Germans to fight....Your government was only too happy to sell arms to Great Britian and profit from the war....you only got into it because Japan attacked you...


The American government was asked for help as early as 1940 and request denied....But I also remember British and Canadian troops in Burma and the Phillapines because the U.S was getting their butts whipped as well....

SO all things being equal it was a collective effort on everyones part.

We did have oil and scrap metal embargo on the Japanese but it wasn’t instant and it wasn’t all that effective. The problem was we were seeing china just get destroy by the Japanese and hearing what was going on over there was too much. Remember that Nanking was so horrible that the German’s in Nanking were told not to send back any more pictures because Hitler could not take see the carnage. We acted through what we though were proper channels and did not make any threats to the Japananese. What ended up happening was the Japanese attacked us, the US, the UK and the Dutch. They also fought the Russians

Were there Canadian troops in a US territory?

The Iranians are lunatics. Agreed. The rhetoric they get away with is scary. I wish Iraq was stronger, there would be some balance there. We "helped" Iraq in the 80's during the Iran - Iraq war. I think we went after the wrong nation......however if we just left well enough alone.

Iraq is a lot stronger now than it was 6 months ago, but the Iranain thing is that we can’t go to war with them, we have to help the people who are now seeing success in Iraq to change their government. Talking to Iranians where I used to work and a few who live near me, I hear the same thing – if the US attacks them, they will defend the country regardless who is in charge but the people look at the US as hope and freedom. I think there is a balance that is becoming stronger but it will all take time and we have become so impatient over things here.


When Clinton left office, didn't we have a balanced budget? I'm afraid for my kids in 10 to 20 years what they will be facing. But I still believe we have to take care of affairs at home before abroad. Spend some of this missle defense money on creating jobs and the homeless.

Our culture is not like Canada, or England or the Swiss but our culture for most of our history has been about the individual. Where the other countries it is about the state and a collective mass. We used to praise success, we used to praise people who pulled themselves out of the mess but since our ‘war on poverty’ we no longer do that. In fact as of the first of the year, we have a country that 51% of the people receive some sort of benefit directly from the government, and I don’t mean tax related.

In order for things like socialized medicine to actually work here in this country, we have to finish destroying the idea that the individual has rights over the collective mass. That also means we have to raise taxes to pay for it because we can’t afford any system to be standing on its own right from the start.

Now the thing is, when you say you don’t want to have you children, children’s children or their children pay for any of this, you are on the right track but miss a few things along the way.

The absolutely first thing that you miss is that we need to go back to allowing people to work for their money and their goals, not to tax them on their labor. This means going back to the individual over the collective mass. We won’t with the preset congress or a candidate who says he is going to ‘save’ the middle class. Obama for all intent and purpose wants to put more controls on the people and squeeze more money out of them to make things equal. Remember this country was not built on everyone being equal but everyone having an equal chance to succeed.

The second thing that you miss is that defense should always come first, that is the job of our federal government first and foremost. We borrow for our defense, so when you think that we can shift money from one pile to another, it will all balance out but it does not – we are still borrowing.

The third thing you miss is social security (I am not talking about retirement benefits) has been in the hole for years and again in a different form we borrow to cover the expenses for this. In order for us to get out of the mess, we need to retire the programs that are not only

We can’t create jobs with money that is being spent on defense or other programs.

We create jobs by;

Allowing people to lift themselves up

By not taxing labor

By removing constraints on individuals to plan and save for their own future

See where I am going with this?

No I don't like the fuel prices, but I attribute that to Bush. I believe the speculators will have the prices go down when the rest of the world sees that we have a president that isn't so confrontational, no matter who it is.

Bush can lower the price of oil on the world market by telling the world he will push for coal to gas plants, building nuke plants on an accelerated scale and by demanding congress to open up drilling in the gulf, ANWR and even the great lakes. AND yes Turtle, he can use NASA to also come up with improvements to the present technologies we have instead of spending millions on using the shuttle as a taxis service for toilet parts and condoms.

Oh mypie, no disrespect but get a grip on things and learn what Hitler and others were like before saying things like that. You have no clue that Obama is closer to Hitler than Bush can ever be but Obama is more of a socialist than Hitler was. You do know that Churchill made the comment that if he met Hitler, he would not have gone to war with him because the guy had the same charisma and warm personality to a lot of leaders and that this same style appears in Obama. Remember that Hitler ran the National Socialist Workers Party, pretty close to the democratic party who supports unions and ‘the middle class’, don’t you think?
 
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