Obama vows not to send people to war without cause

Poorboy

Expert Expediter
LDB,had I been a member of EO during the bush administration I would be saying the same thing,though I did not agree with some of the policy He was our president elected by people who I hope know more about politics than I do and the same with the current President,I just hope for the best.

Poorboy,wether you like it or not he is your president and you will have to live with that for the next four years,or eight,time will tell.

NO-NO He's Not My President and I will Never Accept Him because when He screws this Country Up More And He Will, than it is then I will Not accept any Responsibility for Claiming He is My President when I Did Not Vote For Him..He Can be Yours if you want to Claim Him as well as all of the "Others" But I Will Never Claim that. I will be the One Laughing in the Back Ground saying I Told You So!!:D
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
He is NOT my president either. He is FAR too unqualified and in-experienced for that positition. All is his is a really good snake oil salesman. I am opposed to his policies and those of his handlers. I am opposed to the socialism. I am NOT opposed too or hate the man, I do not know him, though it is very unlikely that I would want too. I do not owe Obama any respect, he has done nothing yet to have earned it. I also doubt that he will ever earn my respect, he shows no respect for me or my way of life. I also question the judgement of anyone who "pals around" with known crimianls. Like Ayers. To my way of thinking he is only the "Current resident of the White House". You know, like the address things you get on all that junk mail that comes to your house.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
He is NOT my president either. He is FAR too unqualified and in-experienced for that positition. All is his is a really good snake oil salesman. I am opposed to his policies and those of his handlers. I am opposed to the socialism. I am NOT opposed too or hate the man, I do not know him, though it is very unlikely that I would want too. I do not owe Obama any respect, he has done nothing yet to have earned it. I also doubt that he will ever earn my respect, he shows no respect for me or my way of life. I also question the judgement of anyone who "pals around" with known crimianls. Like Ayers. To my way of thinking he is only the "Current resident of the White House". You know, like the address things you get on all that junk mail that comes to your house.

Joe on the right!! :D

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tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
So we once again back to questioning the patriotism of those of us(70% at last count) who insisted that W and his cronnies had to go.I'm so sorry if my rhetoric was distasteful to those of you who feel taking out Sadam and his sons was worth 5000 American dead. I'm sorry,I get a little emotional about things like this,but I understand that on the day we mourn our fallen soldiers someone can make such an absurd statement. Ask the families of the fallen if they believe that their loved ones felt they they were giving their lives for three hoodlums and a pack of lies and see what they think.
Talk about disrespect,that is some gall.

Yes,I will have to admit to my short comings in demanding that w (the President w) be held accoutable for his actions.And no,I don't happen to subscribe to the notion that he got my support blindly as my President as he became carried away with his murderous war and attempted unravling of our rights.Solders died in real wars to make sure we never went to war because we wanted to. W' actions actions border on criminal,not the BJ kind of criminal,the real McCoy. I'm so happy your lame right wing views have blinded most of you to the point that you cannot recognize the obvious,but then again I have come to the realization I need to keep my exepectations low around here.I lectured and lectured on what the outcome of his actiosn would bring us,and was continually rebuffed as a Kool Aid swigging knuckle head liberal.
I know,the intellegence quota around here is somewhat deluted,but pulling links of some of the toilet bowl right wing ,gun loving hate mongering web sites does you little justice in trying to convey your point of view .
 
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mjolnir131

Veteran Expediter
lets see a simple majority is needed to elect a president in bush and clintons cases it was around 45-48% lets go really low and say 45 45+70=115 i think your math is off unless your trying to sya that 70% of the people who disliked bush and wanted him out are unpatriotic then yea that number is about right notbecouse they wanted bush out just that 70% of the group that wanted bush out happen to be very anti-american
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
So we once again back to questioning the patriotismof those of us(70% at last count) who insisted thAT W and his cronnies had to go.I'm so sorry if my rhetoric was distasteful to those of you who feel taking out Sadam and his sons was worth 5000 American dead. I'm sorry,I get a little emotional about things like this,but I understand that on the day we mourn our fallen someone can make such an absurd statement. Ask the families of the fallen if they believe that their loved ones felt they they were giving their lives for three hoodlums and a pack of lies and see what they think.
Talk about disrespect,that is some gall.

Yes,I will have to admit to my short comings in demanding the w (the President w) be held accoutable for his actions.And no,I don't happen to subscribe to the notion that he got my support blindly as my President as he became carried away with his murderous war and attempted unravling of our rights.olders died in real wars to make sure we never went to war because we wanted to. hese actions border on criminal,not the BJ kind of criminal,the real McCoy. I'm so happy your lame right wing views have blinded most of you to the point that you cannot recognize the obvious,but then again I have come to the realization I need to keep my exepectations low around here.I lecturede and lectured on what the outcome of his actiosn would bring us,and was continually rebuffed as a Kool Aid swigging knuckl head liberal.
I know,the intellegence quota around here is somewhat deluted,but pulling links of some of the toilet bowl right wing ,gun loving hate mongering web sites does you little justice in trying to convey your point of view .

In case there's anyone who hasn't seen the 2008 presidential election results yet:

Obama: 69,498,216 =52.87% (not 70% or even close)
McCain: 59,948,240 =45.61%

News flash - Obama ran against John McCain, not George Bush. Bush was elected to two four-year terms and by law could not run for re-election. Considering the high percentage of low IQ "toilet bowl right-wing gun loving hate mongers" that populate this site, I'll bet not many of us realized that happened last year.
 

Dreammaker

Seasoned Expediter
Antidote to short term memory loss:

Printer Friendly

May 20, 2009
Once Upon a Time in 2002
by Victor Davis Hanson
Tribune Media Services

For over a year after the murder of 3,000 innocent people in New York and Washington on Sept. 11, 2001, shell-shocked Americans were gripped by other horrific images of terrorism across the globe.

Palestinian suicide bombers blew up Israeli civilians during a renewed intifada. Pakistani terrorists attacked India's parliament over the disputed Kashmir region. Other terrorists in Pakistan beheaded U.S. journalist Daniel Pearl.

Islamists killed over 200 at a nightclub in Bali, Indonesia. Chechnyan separatists stormed a Moscow theater and took over 800 hostages; over 100 died before the nightmare was over.

In the U.S., John Allen Mohammed and his young partner were busy murdering citizens in counties adjoining Washington, D.C. — a city still jittery from anonymous anthrax-laced letters sent in late 2001 to various media organizations and two senators.

In other words, Americans in 2002 were scared of the spreading worldwide conflagration of radical Islam, and looked to the president to keep them safe. And he did — to bipartisan applause of most in government.

By the end of Nov. 2002, the Bush administration had created the new Department of Homeland Security. We all began removing belts and shoes, as well as surrendering any liquids in our carry-on luggage, at the airport. Air marshals began flying selected routes. The recently passed Patriot Act allowed American anti-terrorism agents to intercept phone calls and e-mails of suspected jihadists.

At the newly opened Guantanamo Bay Detention Center, jihadists were detained. While specific dates of who was briefed when concerning the waterboarding of certain detainees is now being debated, it seems clear that select members of Congress, on both sides of the aisle, became aware of the practice — and that no objections were publicly voiced.

And former Clinton Justice Department official Eric Holder — now the attorney general — even declared in a 2002 interview that none of the terrorists detained at Guantanamo were protected by the Geneva Convention statutes concerning prisoners of war.

In Oct. 2002, Congress, with a majority of both Democratic senators and representatives, authorized the removal of Saddam Hussein.

A number of liberal journalists also endorsed the Iraq war. By Nov. 2002, after almost two years in office, George Bush enjoyed an approval rating of over 60 percent.

Now, seven years later, we live in a different world. Since then, some unforeseen events have transpired — and other predicted events have not.

The U.S. has not been attacked again in the manner of 9/11 — although almost all terrorist experts had assured us we would be.

After a three-week victory in Iraq that removed Saddam Hussein and won the support of nearly 80 percent of the American people, an insurgency grew that would eventually claim over 4,000 American lives. Terrorists almost toppled Iraq's nascent democracy until Gen. David P. Petraeus' troop "surge" quelled the violence.

By then, politics had begun to change. Most who called for invading Iraq long ago abandoned their own zeal and advocacy — and loudly blamed the Bush administration for the violence of the postwar occupation. (Now, they are largely silent about the quiet in Iraq that the Obama administration inherited.)

Of course, had we suffered another major terrorist attack between 2001-09, critics would have ****ed the Bush administration for its perceived laxity as vehemently as they now do in quieter times for its supposed extremism.

Opportunism, not principles, guides most in Washington. Almost no proponents of the Iraq war withdrew their support right after the successful three-week effort to remove Saddam. Had there been little Iraqi violence during the transition to democracy, former supporters would probably still be vying to take credit for the war's success.

Consider also the dexterous Obama administration's own about-face. It still finds it useful to **** the old Bush government's embrace of wiretaps, military tribunals and renditions — even as it dares not drop or completely discount these apparently useful Bush policies, albeit under new names and with new qualifiers.

What does this political opportunism teach us?

If we get hit again by a major terrorist attack, you can bet that today's cooing doves will flip a third time and revert to the screeching hawks of 2002 — and once again scream that their president must do something to keep us safe.

©2009 Victor Davis Hanson


More antidote:

May 22, 2009
Amnesiatic
by Victor Davis Hanson
Pajamas Media

That Was Then, This is Now…

The current furor over the three water-boarded terrorists is right out of the old Greek idea of excess leading to hubris leading to nemesis leading to destruction. Do we really wish to revisit 2002?

In that seminal year 2002 — remember Bali, the intifada bombings, the 800 Russian hostages, John Allen Mohammad, Jose Padilla, the Buffalo Six al Qaedists, and the lingering fumes from Richard (”shoe-bomber”) Reid and the anthrax letters? — Democrats were chest-thumping about keeping us safe. To be fair, everyone was. Bush had a 62% approval rating, and gained in the mid-term elections that hinged on matters of national security. The new Department of Homeland Security was having us remove shoes and throw away liquids from our carry-on luggage.

Meanwhile everyone from Thomas Friedman to Andrew Sullivan was advocating an invasion of Iraq to remove Saddam. Democrats were edgy, as the Clinton era was framed as a period of “firewalls” and futile cruise missile attacks that had only empowered al Qaeda. A majority of the Democrats in the Congress, worried about the upcoming November elections, voted in October for 23 reasons to go to war against Iraq. Harry Reid was giving fire and brimstone speeches about going into Iraq. Clinton was toxic, deemed dallying with Monica as our enemies plotted their attacks.

In this context, the country was convinced that radical Islam was on the rise, that another 9/11 was inevitable, that genocidal tyrants like Saddam were whipping up anti-American feeling in the Middle East, and that a popular George Bush was doing all that he could to keep us safe — barely.

So Nancy Pelosi and Jay Rockefeller were briefed on the “enhanced interrogation techniques” that led in 2002 to the waterboarding of the first of three murderers in Guantanamo. Neither at the time objected to the practice.

The Strange Case of Eric Holder

“It seems to me you can think of these people as combatants and we are in the middle of a war. And it seems to me that you could probably say, looking at precedent, that you are going to detain these people until war is over, if that is ultimately what we wanted to do.” Later in 2002 Holder elaborated, “One of the things we clearly want to do with these prisoners is to have an ability to interrogate them and find out what their future plans might be, where other cells are located. Under the Geneva Convention, you are really limited in the amount of information that you can elicit from people…[They] are not, in fact, people entitled to the protection of the Geneva Convention. They are not prisoners of war…Those in Europe and other places who are concerned about the treatment of al-Qaeda members should come to Camp X-ray and see how the people are, in fact, being treated.”

Again, that was 2002, when the Democrats, like the Bush administration, were desperate to show the public that they too could stop another 9/11 and keep us safe.

And now?

Seven years of safety at home bred the assurance of perpetual safety from another 9/11-like attack. The 4,000 killed in Iraq created “my perfect three-week war was ruined by your five year screw-up.” Two presidential elections meant every item of the war on terror became politicized. All that and more have led to a new narrative: There was never any real threat. Bush whipped up fear. Democrats were misled. Liberal hawks were duped. We, not a Khalid Sheik Mohammed, were the real problem. Guantanamo was a Stalag. And so on.

But the problem with constantly metamorphosizing to keep ahead of the hourly curve is that one never quite catches up. Barack Obama variously has trashed the Patriot Act, wiretaps, email intercepts, renditions and military tribunals. He promised all troops gone from Iraq by March 2008. And he said our Predators were blowing up innocents in Pakistan and Afghanistan. And then candidate Obama became President Obama and essentially flipped on every anti-terrorism issue, and simply kept the Bush protocols, albeit with new euphemisms (”overseas contingency operation,” “man-made catastrophes,” etc.); his supporters almost magically ceased the “shredding the Constitution” slurs used against Bush. And here we are.

All We Need Now is Joe McCarthy

Nancy Pelosi, after calling for an inquisition, now would find herself right in the middle of it. If a lawyer is to be tried, ruined, or disbarred for offering a legal opinion, then what about a Congressional representative whose oversight allows waterboarding to continue? Will Pelosi want more memos released, à la Cheney, to show that the practice that she authorized by her complicity in the oversight briefings paid dividends by preventing new attacks?

The fact is that, once war is redefined as a criminal justice matter, everyone in government comes under this French Revolution-like reign of revisionism — did Eric Holder once authorize Clinton-era renditions? Does blowing apart suspected terrorists by Predator attacks in Pakistan without habeas corpus constitute executions?

And, of course, if we are hit again by another 9/11 attack, will all the above cease in a nanno-second, replaced by new recriminations of laxity? And would people look back in appreciation that Bush & co kept us safe for years.

Moveon…

If I were the Democratic leadership, I’d move on, so to speak.

It’s coming.

Everyone I think knows what is ahead. These mega-stimuli soon will have the effect of kick-starting the economy again — as well as the natural ying and yang of the boom-and-bust cycles that we’ve grown accustomed to, as well as reduced energy costs and global discounting of prices.

And then as the economy starts to inflate, we expect that there will not be prudence and cutting, but even more borrowing and spending to fund everything from cap-and-trade to national socialized health-care. When these mega-trillion dollars are added to the national debt, and as the government absorbs ever more of the private sector, we will sputter again, as inflation roars back, and as taxes punish the entrepreneurial classes. So this time the natural recovery won’t quite come as before and resume the normal American era of growth.

Instead we will be told we are lucky to be a France or the Netherlands. The poorer become wards of an aristocratic technocracy that runs things that sort of work, the entrepreneurial class is content to be of a fossilized middle status, scheming how to avoid government regulations, moonlighting, bartering, and shunning hiring permanent workers, as mass transit, universities, airports, and health care become all subject to periodic strikes. I think we will soon adopt the European mentality — hoping our children will find a good government, life-time guaranteed job rather than become a farmer, contractor, family-practice doctor, etc. — and with it the mentality of the spread-it-around group, not too much of that nor too little of this, happy that we are all becoming alike and nurtured by brilliant overseers who tell us to wash our hands, inflate our tires, and pay our patriotic fair share.

Big Brother comes not with jack boots and May Day parades, but with a kindly therapeutic smile — inviting all of us to accept hope and change and forget what we were.

©2009 Victor Davis Hanson
 

mjolnir131

Veteran Expediter
oh i see what he's trying to say now ... if you don't conveniently forget resent history,don't throw out the use of any logic,don't believe everything "reported" on CNN,NBC or the like then your a mouth breathing right wing racist ... OOOKKK got it
 

tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
As usual,facts once again play second fiddle to any semblence of truth.I have seen this piece before.
Let us not forget the obvious truths in exchange for exagerated predictions and a gloss over the dreadful w years.Both the election of 2000 and 2004 were Carl Rove mastermined filthy politics at their lowest form. They were corrutpted elections rigged from top to bottom.It is well known and well documented.Remember,most Americans get their news from TV,and the media spin sposered by Enron ,Rupert Murdoch etc pulled every piece of garbage out of the political play book to get the job done.For those of us that witnessed this joke we predicted,correctly,the final out come. So did the terrorists. They played these guys straight up as fools and weaklings and pulled the trigger.They could not believe how easy it was for corporate corruption to buy the American political system led by a little well known worm by the name of Rove.
While w and his team were planning how to take Iraq and wipe out the surplus left by Bill (from day 1 this was high on the agenda of the first term),the terrorists were laughing and planning.They knew that America had been weakned by the bafoon coming into office and took full advantage. The 911 report goes in to detail exactly how poorly w and posse dropped the ball on intell.
Bush looked like a deer in the headlights in that classroom on 911. It was truly a classic w moment. Now what I do? Keep reading,ask questions,duck and cover,what the hell am I supposed to do?
As it turns out,he did what he was told to do ( by the likes of Dick Head and Rummy) and blew the only opportinity he had to make a differnce in the world.He listened to the fools.He was elected,but he defered to the fools.
He then blew what was left of the surplus on "Shock and Awe". It turned out to be " Slop and Ha".He ran up the highest deficit in U.S'history on a waste of time war,corrupt from top to bottom. He made sure companies like Parsons and Halliburton made billions on no bid contracts. Rove and co then pulled an even dirtier second term election out of the hat.He refeered to it as a mandate.Those words were not only untrue ( 1% majority and a rigged electoral precinct,Ohio) it was now a certainty he would lead us down a dangerous road and go after our rights.He would go after the Constitution.Toss it out,get crooked lawyers to re interprit and invoke Hitler type propoganda positions led by,you gussed it,Carl "Gorbals" Rove.The single biggest recruiting tool for the terroists was now well oiled and running beautifully.Torture and concentration camps.All the time,they were telling us it was for our own good and how they were protecting us.Fiction being sold as truth once again.The difference was it was not Jews but Muslums.

These guys,who shot each other when they went bird hunting,a leader who could not get a single sentence out without butchering the English language,knew what was right for us and were minding the store ,AND PROTECTING US.Thank you God for saving us from ouselves.
The American people finally woke up and took control of Congress and eventually 70% ( do the math you scholors.W left office with 28% approval rating) and we begain the long treck back,removing the cancer and attempting to heal a very sick patient.
Now,I understand that you may not like the depth of the muck these guys left us to dig out of,it's understandable as you voted for him twice.I would be angry too.It's natural for you to blame Obama,make up names for him,infere that his skin tone is to blame and play around with his religion,conspire as to his citizenship status,all things I would expect from the likes of you. But please remember that second vote when you wish to demonize the man who is on course to save us from our our mistaken attempt at nation building,re writing the Constituion and running up a debt that left us with few options. The Republicans certainly have no alternative.They put forth a budget with no numbers as an alternative.Typical.
I'm not so much angry anymore at what w left for our children and grand children to have to muddle through,as young people over whemingly voted the party of death and decay out.I don't believe they will again,in their life times,allow another gang of thieves,bumblers and corrupt idiots to steal our precious nation,
 
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layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
They might as well. The voting public does not!! We just keep voting the same slimey scum in year after year without fail. This election was no different. VOTE THE SCUM OUT!! ALL OF THEM!!
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I support our troops by holding our leaders acountable!

But the most important question is how do you define a leader?

The last time I looked, I didn't take an oath to a leader, I took an oath to the country. The last time I looked we had one leader of the country but not a leader of the people. To be a leader, one must be in command of people, but that isn't the way it supposed to work.

The military has one leader, the president which is lead by the people who elect him. The congress has no leaders at all, they represent us, the do not lead us.

SO after all of that, I have to ask you in all sincerity, how do you hold one accountable in a system wrought with corruption and mega-egos?

Remember I am not talking about a party but incumbents, so do you vote for the other guy or is Sandra Levin your guy? How about his brother Carl, did you vote for him - you know he failed the state by not fighting for federal jobs to come here but likes the idea to put up "Gitmo UP", what a tourist attraction that would be...

Tallcal,
Man... there was no surplus, it was a projection that was used until the tech bubble came crashing down...... But you proves my other point that your anger is misplaced and showing....if leaving our grand children with a debt was so bad under Bush, why are you giving a pass to Obama, he has TRIPLED the debt this year and the cost is said to be something like 60 TRILLION DOLLARS because of the mess like Medicare and Social Security AND OUR ECONOMY IS FAILING
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I'm not so much angry anymore at what w left for our children and grand children to have to muddle through,as young people over whemingly voted the party of death and decay out.I don't believe they will again,in their life times,allow another gang of thieves,bumblers and corrupt idiots to steal our precious nation,

Other than the far more corrupt and dishonest thieves they voted into office who've made the Bush numbers look tiny by comparison? As others have also noticed and commented on, you should try to get control of your Bush/republican/conservative hatred. It dilutes and diminishes everything else.
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
That would be a change for the good eh not sending our troops without cause and making sure they are fully equipped when they do go. It is truly a fine day to be an American!

I wonder if Barack Hussein Obama would consider a nuclear armed Iran that threatens Israel's existance to be a just cause for military action? Apparantly not, according to this article by Dick Morris. Admittedly, I take anything Morris says with several grains of salt. However, what's more important in this article are the quotes from Caroline Glick of the Jerusalem Post.

"...the Obama administration has all but accepted as irreversible and unavoidable fact that Iran will soon develop nuclear weapons. She writes, “…we have learned that the [Obama] administration has made its peace with Iran’s nuclear aspirations. Senior administration officials acknowledge as much in off-record briefings. It is true, they say, that Iran may exploit its future talks with the US to run down the clock before they test a nuclear weapon. But, they add, if that happens, the US will simply have to live with a nuclear-armed mullocracy.”
She goes on to write that the Obama administration is desperate to stop Israel from attacking Iran writing that “as far as the [Obama] administration is concerned, if Israel could just leave Iran’s nuclear installations alone, Iran would behave itself...”

THE DEATH OF ISRAEL at DickMorris.com

To think that this extremely liberal and inexperienced president would tolerate a nuclear armed Iran should send chills down the back of every serious citizen in this country. For anyone who thinks this course of action is not possible, I would encourage them to read an historical account of the events that lead up to World War II. Pay particular attention to the appeasement policies of France and Britain's Neville Chamberlain. They thought they could talk reasonably with Adolf Hitler and that diplomacy would win him over to their way of seeing things.

According to Israel's intel, Iran could have a weapon before Christmas this year. In spite of the Obama administration's arm-twisting, the Israelis could attack Iran to prevent this catastrophic development especially considering Netanyahu is now prime minister. If this not-so-far-fetched scenario comes to pass, the value of having Iraq (with its newly installed military bases) as an ally in that part of the world will become abundantly clear to everyone.
 
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