Miners

[layoutshooter]

I am the great grandson of two coal miners. I am the grandson of two coal miners. I am the son of a coal miner and a career salt miner. I am PROUD that I am of that stock. What happened over the last few months PROVED that the ordinary man is head and shoulders ABOVE book learned people. Thank GOD I am from TOUGH stock!! Can YOU imagine Obama in that mine? What if he were the mine forman? What a laugh!! ONLY the STRONG SURVIVE!!

 

[RLENT]

I am the great grandson of two coal miners. I am the grandson of two coal miners. I am the son of a coal miner and a career salt miner. I am PROUD that I am of that stock. .... Thank GOD I am from TOUGH stock!!

Thump ... thump ..... thump .....

What happened over the last few months PROVED that the ordinary man is head and shoulders ABOVE book learned people.

Ahhh ... I really hate to be the one to break this to ya ...... but ....

If it wasn't for them "book-learned" people (who are often just ordinary people themselves), those miners would probably still be down there .... looking for air ..... in the dark .... before they eventually expired and were permanently entombed for all eternity .....

And that's speaking as a former "miner" (BTDT, got the tee shirt: PG&E Helms Pumped Storage Powerhouse Project, Courtright and Wishon Reservoirs, early '80's)

ONLY the STRONG SURVIVE!!

Only the smart survive .... and often times they even have a hard time of it .....

The (formerly) strong are often found in the graveyard ..... long dead and buried .......

 

[layoutshooter]

YOU are funny!! Obama would hold meetings until they were all dead. NO common sense is taught in school. THUMP? Proud of my heritage? YOU ARE DARN RIGHT I AM!! My DAD was the captain of his mine rescue crew. (how much back ground do YOU have in emergency services?) He never completed 8th grade. MY dad survived some of the WORST fighting in WWII! THAT is the stock I come from. I would take my chances with coal miners, salt miners, copper miners and combat vets over "college geeks" when my LIFE was on the line every day of the week and twice on Sunday!!

How do I know that? I KNOW that by going into forest fires, grass fires, structure fires and car fires with UNEDUCATED fools!! I an ALIVE thanks to them!! I have DONE it in REAL life (and can PROVE IT)

Smoke that in your pipe!!

By the way, ONE of my Grandfathers was KILLED because the mine forman was a COLLEGE geek who REFUSED to listen to him. That GEEK did NOT know the difference between coal dust and soot. Neither did the union steward that agreed with that geek.

That took place at the Robina mine in SW PA in 1962. My grandfather had only been working in coal mines for 52 years at the time he was killed.

Reality sucks.

 

[greg334]

Er... we have a mining accident here that no one heard about?

 

[layoutshooter]

Er... we have a mining accident here that no one heard about?

The ONLY ones who do NOT know about the criminal act that killed my granddad in that mine are either very young or NOT from SW PA or W. VA.

39 were killed in that mine that day. MOST were killed BECAUSE of the stupidity of that college geek. PROOF that a degree WITHOUT REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE KILLS!!

 

[greg334]

I wasn't talking about somehting that happened in the past, I was talking about this;

What happened over the last few months PROVED that the ordinary man is head and shoulders ABOVE book learned people.

I don't get that. What happened?

That mine in Chile?

That has Zero to do with any mine here and is more media hype than anything else because of the political climate of the region. I think the Media here needed to fill some time up with the every fart the guys made type reporting, Fox overdid their coverage enough to force people to complain a bit.

I praise the fortitude of the people stuck down there but don't think for a new york second that they were all tough enough to survive on their own. There were a lot of "book learned" folk that were in command there, like the psychologists and doctors who were actually telling them what to do. If these professionals were not there to direct them, then they would have fallen apart quickly.

I feel sorry for them now, some of them are going to have a hard time with the spot light while others may fall apart because of the media pressure.

By the way, I also come from a mining family.

 

[layoutshooter]

Ok, Greg, it was the Robena mine, 1962. My grandad SURVIVED the first blast and was KILLED because a college geek who had NO experience in mines threw a switch. You can do, read or teach. Lives are always LOST because of LACK of REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE!!

 

[greg334]

Ok, Greg, it was the Robena mine, 1962. My grandad SURVIVED the first blast and was KILLED because a college geek who had NO experience in mines threw a switch. You can do, read or teach. Lives are always LOST because of LACK of REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE!!

I read the BoM report and I don't see who was the college geek that threw a switch. I do see that they had a problem with a fan and found that it was poorly maintained by the company electrician and the probable cause of the explosion was one or a combination of four things which the fan was one of the possible causes - all related to a combination of methane and coal dust.

Sorry about your loss but I don't see the connection between the mine in Chile where there are lax 19th century safety laws and coal mining.

 

[layoutshooter]

I read the BoM report and I don't see who was the college geek that threw a switch. I do see that they had a problem with a fan and found that it was poorly maintained by the company electrician and the probable cause of the explosion was one or a combination of four things which the fan was one of the possible causes - all related to a combination of methane and coal dust.

Sorry about your loss but I don't see the connection between the mine in Chile where there are lax 19th century safety laws and coal mining.

Three days BEFORE the FIRST blast my grandfather TOLD the mine forman that there was a fire in the mine. He showed him soot on a bench in the mine. The forman, college geek, told my grandfather that it was NOT soot, just coal dust. That fool did NOT know the difference.

That mine was KNOWN for it's gas. Gas and a fire equals disaster. That union ignored the warnings. The mine forman ignored the wornings. The mine blew. 28 of the 39 were killed. My granddad survived the first blow. The time on his watch stopped at the exact time of the SECOND blast. He was wearing a resperator when he was found, the last to be found, 5 days later. Had that fool NOT thrown that switch it is likely that my granddad would have lived to a ripe old age. I still have his watch to prove when it stopped. It stopped as the EXACT time of the SECOND blast that was CAUSED by the geek throwing that switch.

The mine forman, the geek, threw the switch to restart that fan BEFORE the mine was recertified as safe. THAT is what happened.

How does that compare to CHilei? It was a REAL miner that kept that bunch together. It was REAL miners that stuck together. NOT book worms.

 

[layoutshooter]

Even though I was 11 I STILL remember the stories my grandmother told me about the last days. I STILL remember what my day told me about what my granddad told him the day before he was killed. My granddad was at hunting camp the day before he was killed. I STILL remember what is was like watching the town waiting for word from the mine. I STILL remember flowers being placed in the wrong room, closed caskets, NO proof that the body in that box was my granddad. It BURNS into the mind of a 11 years old. MANY more stories about that time. Too gross for in here.

 

[layoutshooter]

I went into firefighting BECAUSE of the disaster. REAL MEN went into that mine, risking their lives for my grandfather. Just as 6 went into that mine for those who were trapped for 69 days. I OWED those who went before me that effort. Lives are worth a life.

 

[layoutshooter]

My Dad was a VET, He was a MORSE code op, as was I. Pay backs count.

 

[layoutshooter]

I had REAL life examples AND book examples of HOW we should live. My dad, a mine rescue captain. Those MEN who went into that hell hole called Robena, to try to bring out my granddad and the other 38 killed in that pit. The BOOK example that I based my life on was Dr. Dooley, I know you have read his books and story. Real life ALWAYS trumps "school".

 

[xiggi]

There are book smart people that screwed up and hard knocks people that screw up. Being one or the other is no promise your going to outdo the other every time. there are no guaranteed trump cards in life.

 

[RLENT]

YOU are funny!!

..... yes ... but certainly not nearly as funny as you ......

Obama would hold meetings until they were all dead. NO common sense is taught in school.

Dude,

You are having a conversation with yourself:

I did not say anything (in reply to you) about Obama - or really even about school (only in reference to book learning .....)

(And exactly how goofy is it to insert a US politician into a discussion ostensibly related to a mine rescue operation .... that occurred in another country ..... and actually believe there is even some hint of relevancy ? )

But since you raised the issue of school, do you actually know who the guy was that was in charge of and ran this rescue operation ?

He's a guy by the name of Andre Sougarret - a mine engineer - and he studied mining engineering at the University of Chile:

Andre Sougarret: the brains behind the Chile mine rescue

IOW, those "ordinary" ..... "UNEDUCATED fools" ..... owe their very lives to a college geek ....

And more than likely they owe it, not only to one, but a number of them .....

THUMP? Proud of my heritage? YOU ARE DARN RIGHT I AM!!

Yup ... pride .... it's one of the seven deadlies ....

My DAD was the captain of his mine rescue crew.

So .... like whadda ya want ..... a gold star .... cause you're his son ?

(how much back ground do YOU have in emergency services?)

Well lessee .... between working in various oil refineries - Arco, Exxon (Benicia, CA) Chevron (Richmond, CA), several chemical plants - Tenneco (Pasadena, TX), Oxirane Chemical (Bayport, TX) ...... underground on the Helms Powerstation Project ..... and on a fishing boats in the Gulf of Alaska and the Bering Sea ....

Well ..... lessee ..... yeah I guess might have .... a little ..... real-life, practical experience ....

Ya ever had to fight a fire .... in the engine room of a ship ..... out in the middle of the Bering Sea ..... in January ?

He never completed 8th grade.

Mine did ..... but that was all he completed ..... and he was entirely a self-made man ..... went start his own business(es), and eventually employed over 60 people ....

He was quite successful and very well respected .... for most of his life .....

In some ways he was a real smart guy ... but he also had his faults and flaws ..... and was profoundly stupid in other ways .... he was, afterall, human .....

One of the flaws was not only a lack of formal education, but - like yourself apparently - a total disdain for "book learning" (that was exactly how he referred to it, I kid you not)

It's funny how people have a tendency to make less of the accomplishments of others .... when they themselves have not obtained (and have little to no chance in the future of obtaining) similar ... (BTW, I think that envy is another one of them deadly seven ......)

Another was being so opinionated as to his own rightness above all others - and being prone to using force as a method of trying to handle and control others - rather than logic and reason (my way or the highway) - both of which caused several critical, key (long-term) employees to leave .... as well as causing a revolt within the rank and file .... it almost caused the premature demise of the business - and certainly put it on a downward spiral ....

The only thing that probably kept it from going under entirely, was the fact that he was more and more removed from the daily decisions and operations as time went on .... finally retiring and leaving the premises ....

He used to walk around in one of the stores and rant (very similar to how you rant on here) at various employees ..... often over nothing .... to the point that he became a joke amongst the employees ....

It was actually pretty sad to see ....

In the last few years, the senility and Alzheimers were really taking hold and all his character flaws were only magnified ..... tenfold ....

But none of that is neither here nor there: I ain't him - and you ain't your Dad (or grandparents, great or otherwise)

Anyways I digress .... so what's really your point - Daddy was a standup guy ?

If so ...... Congrats .....

MY dad survived some of the WORST fighting in WWII!

So did mine - Battle of the Bulge ..... but you don't necessarily see me coming on here and crowing about it ....

THAT is the stock I come from.

Apparently you think that's a pretty big deal .... something special .... in a way I suppose it sorta is .... but it's also probably pretty typical for a lot of folks I'll bet ...

I would take my chances with coal miners, salt miners, copper miners and combat vets over "college geeks" when my LIFE was on the line every day of the week and twice on Sunday!!

That's your choice .....

Me, I'd prefer to take my chances with someone who was smart, educated, and has enough practical life experience to know what to do with whatever they learned in school .....

How do I know that? I KNOW that by going into forest fires, grass fires, structure fires and car fires with UNEDUCATED fools!! I an ALIVE thanks to them!! I have DONE it in REAL life (and can PROVE IT) Smoke that in your pipe!!

Well, try these ones on for size:

1. The man who orchestrated this little rescue miracle was a college educated engineer .... not an UNEDUCATED fool ...

2. The folks at Schramm Inc. (West Chester, PA), who designed, manufactured, and provided the T130 drilling rig that was used to dig an escape bore to the trapped miners are likely ..... not UNEDUCATED fools .....

Schramm Inc.

I rather suspect that the folks who work there are probably highly educated and trained at a college level (or better) in their specific engineering disciplines ....

3. I'm quite sure that your position on the total and complete acceptability of our citizens and people being UNEDUCATED fools will keep us at the very top of the world technological and economic food chain for .... what do you figure - maybe all of two seconds ?

What you really have a problem with is not the fact of education, but the system of schooling - that is where the problem is - you just haven't made that differentiation yet .... the two are not the same thing, not even remotely close.

By the way, ONE of my Grandfathers was KILLED because the mine forman was a COLLEGE geek who REFUSED to listen to him. That GEEK did NOT know the difference between coal dust and soot. Neither did the union steward that agreed with that geek.

That took place at the Robina mine in SW PA in 1962. My grandfather had only been working in coal mines for 52 years at the time he was killed. Reality sucks.

My condolences ....

But being stupid is not assured merely by the fact of attending college and obtaining a degree - just as doing same will not prevent stupidity either .....