Load One

[Tennesseahawk]

No, the fsc does not pay the fuel bill in full with some left over. Some loads are good and some are bad. We are 0 to 100 bucks per week per truck that we take out of our % to pay for fuel on top of the fsc. The most we ever made off of fsc was 87 bucks one week. Yes, we sleep very well each night and we are not taking advantage. All of our drivers are very experienced and intelligent and know their math. 2 of them dont want any part of paying for fuel and 1 would do either. The drivers are averaging .46 to .48 per mile plus they get 67% of all the layover pay. Dont know where you get the idea that all fleet owners make a mint on their trucks cause you dont. Do we make a profit, sure we do. Its a business !! You think the 60% we take is all profit and it would be if it wasnt for those pesky bills that have to be paid every month. Then when it is all profit it goes in the bank so in a year or so you can replace the truck and the cycle starts all over again. If you think its a win fall then go buy some trucks and and make a million. Jump on in "the water is warm"

If your drivers are making .46-.48, then you're taking care of your drivers, and therefore, not one I'm calling out.

Are you telling your drivers to take all of the runs? Because if your trucks are averaging 1.50, then you should be getting .45 surcharge avg. I'm guessing the 100 comes from dh and idling. But that .45 almost completely covers the fuel by itself, where traditionally, the extra 20% + FSC did that. If you're only paying 100 extra, per week, that is a drop in the bucket of the 20%, and weaksauce for your argument.

Never said you made a mint on your truck. I've been there, I know the costs. Are you saying you need approx .65/mi to take care of your business after fuel and driver pay? In fact, Panther owners who do the sacred split, with the drivers paying for fuel, pay their bills on... .48/mi; and they have the same business expenses as you do. 1.20 is what you'd be basing your percentage on at Panther, the industry standard, not the 1.05 linehaul that Load One has. What I'm saying is that whomever has the 40% in this case is getting the shaft; and the owners definitely don't want it being them.

Awaiting your rebuttal.

 

[Dynamite 1]

No, the drivers dont take everything offered

You keep saying .45 fsc. You do realize the fsc moves up and down every week based on %. Some loads are nowhere near that cause we do have some customers that have set rates then there is always NLM. I also stated that we were at a 100 bucks per truck.

Now lets look at your approximate .65 a mile we owners take. On an average week for a solo driver. Lets use a 2000 $ linehaul. Owner gets 60% which is 1200 $. Take out 100$ for fuel, 30$ QC, 400$ for truck payment/Ins., .10 per mile for maint. fund / 190$ [ based on 1900 miles @ 1.05 for a 2k linehaul ], 17$ prepass. Total is 737$, after expenses owner takes 463$, also keep in mind that part of that linehaul some weeks may be layover pay and 2 days layover pay decreases our portion by 40$ cause we give our drivers 50$ of the layover pay instead of 30$ that the 40% would require. At the 40% the driver gets of the 2k linehaul it is 800$ -30$ for their ins. 770$.

So the way we see it nobody is being taken advantage of. My expenses are fair to on the low side for some owners. Being as to we are the ones running the business and taking the responsibility and having to replace the truck at some point in time i dont think that is a huge amount of money. the drivers are making 40% more per week than we are after expenses. We are allowed to make some money as owners, we cant just break even. Our time is worth something. We didnt even mention all the other little expenses we have through out the year. Not much but there are some.

Thats as real as it gets and we hope this clarifies, at least on our part, that the profit is not what you think and the amounts are pretty much justified. You can choose to take it as it is or whatever. Its a business and we are allowed to make a profit.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Whenever I was in the truck, the FSC was 30% of the tariff. They would remove Load One's 30%, and replace it with FSC. More times than not, it was a couple of bucks more than the 30% removed. Rarely was it less.

Why are you comparing what the owner gets, to what the drivers make? Those are apples to oranges. If you don't think the drivers should get more than you, after your expenses, you've been away from the seat too long. But I digress.

Well, the driver gets 770, and therefore, no one is getting taken advantage of. I disagree. You won't even acknowledge that your 40% is indeed less than the 40% at other companies; yet it's fair. Have you even pointed out to your drivers that 40% of Load One's average linehaul is less than that of Panther's? And as much as people laugh at XPO's rate, it's less than theirs too.

I wasn't in this to start a pizzing match with you, Dynamite. I put out numbers, for all to see, and you didn't even debate them. All you keep saying is it's fair. Well, if drivers keep their mouths shut, it is fair. Because then it's just a matter of replacing them with drivers who will drive for that amount... just like the big trucking companies... take it or leave it, there are plenty more. Bottom line is owners at Load One - not all of them I'm sure - are living high on the hog with the biggest FSC in the industry, and still have to take the whole extra 20% of one of the lower linehauls, because it's that ancient and sacred split. I'm just pointing out that less is indeed less. Fair is up to the drivers... if they don't mind getting less, that's on them. I'm sure more than a few are biting their tongues, tho, as I did.

 

[jelliott]

Whenever I was in the truck, the FSC was 30% of the tariff. They would remove Load One's 30%, and replace it with FSC. More times than not, it was a couple of bucks more than the 30% removed. Rarely was it less.

Why are you comparing what the owner gets, to what the drivers make? Those are apples to oranges. If you don't think the drivers should get more than you, after your expenses, you've been away from the seat too long. But I digress.

Well, the driver gets 770, and therefore, no one is getting taken advantage of. I disagree. You won't even acknowledge that your 40% is indeed less than the 40% at other companies; yet it's fair. Have you even pointed out to your drivers that 40% of Load One's average linehaul is less than that of Panther's? And as much as people laugh at XPO's rate, it's less than theirs too.

I wasn't in this to start a pizzing match with you, Dynamite. I put out numbers, for all to see, and you didn't even debate them. All you keep saying is it's fair. Well, if drivers keep their mouths shut, it is fair. Because then it's just a matter of replacing them with drivers who will drive for that amount... just like the big trucking companies... take it or leave it, there are plenty more. Bottom line is owners at Load One - not all of them I'm sure - are living high on the hog with the biggest FSC in the industry, and still have to take the whole extra 20% of one of the lower linehauls, because it's that ancient and sacred split. I'm just pointing out that less is indeed less. Fair is up to the drivers... if they don't mind getting less, that's on them. I'm sure more than a few are biting their tongues, tho, as I did.

Not really sure I even understand the real argument here.

First off I thinking would agree we are not known or sell ourselves as a "low rate" carrier. I have plenty of owner operators from aforementioned companies that will attest to their numbers being far stronger with us.

How a fleet owner compensates a driver is really an internal business function of that owner no matter what carrier they are leased on too.

A lot of factors go into those decisions and negotiations. Is the equipment new or old? How are accessorials paid? What other benefits are offered? How are they treated and respected? How much decision making are they allowed? The whole percentage split argument is great but it is about the net result of the package.

No different than when you were an owner op Hawk. A carrier might have a great linehaul rate but no miles. They might have a great linehaul rate but pay for nothing else or charge for everything. You can package things up a lot of ways and argue it all day but the net is the net. Everyone from owners to drivers makes what they feel is the best business decision for "THEM".

The rest of this argument is really silly and pointless in my humble opinion.

 

[Dynamite 1]

Dont think i have to, they know it is less but this is where they choose to work. Im not straying from the fact that it is less, we know it is. As far as the fsc is concerned, your numbers are outta whack when you take all loads into account with some better than others.

You also said we shouldnt compare our income to the drivers but yet you keep saying they are being taken advantage of. I was simply trying to show you they were not but you wont see it. If we are all allowed to make an income , which we are, and after expenses the drivers are making more then i dont see it. what i do see is this being directed towards the carriers pay plan which you feel is inadequate. Yes , the drivers should make more than we do and they do, we made that point very clear. You just seem to think that we should own these trucks and not make a decent profit also. My numbers are as true as they can be and we are not living high on the hog off of the fsc.

Like i said before, if you think there is millions to be made, go buy some trucks and operate a fleet then come back and tell me how you feel about it. Oh, we are not removed from the drivers seat. We still drive ourselves and we make our own pay check and take no income off of our trucks. That money is for the trucks for what they may need.

So since this is going nowhere fast, which is no issue cause everyone is entitled to look at it anyway they want and what some feel is fair others feel is not. We will let this pass. All i know is that we dont believe that our drivers feel taken advantage of and if they do they have not said so and they do read hear on EO so i encourage them to speak up if thats the case. Its all point of view and i cant put mine on everyone or yours either.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Dont think i have to, they know it is less but this is where they choose to work. Im not straying from the fact that it is less, we know it is. As far as the fsc is concerned, your numbers are outta whack when you take all loads into account with some better than others. That's why it's called an 'average'.

You also said we shouldnt compare our income to the drivers but yet you keep saying they are being taken advantage of. I was simply trying to show you they were not but you wont see it. If we are all allowed to make an income , which we are, and after expenses the drivers are making more then i dont see it. what i do see is this being directed towards the carriers pay plan which you feel is inadequate. Yes , the drivers should make more than we do and they do, we made that point very clear. You just seem to think that we should own these trucks and not make a decent profit also. My numbers are as true as they can be and we are not living high on the hog off of the fsc.

Again, your income is not relevant to the discussion. You're the one who keeps on bringing up, "Aren't we allowed to make a profit?"

Like i said before, if you think there is millions to be made, go buy some trucks and operate a fleet then come back and tell me how you feel about it. Oh, we are not removed from the drivers seat. We still drive ourselves and we make our own pay check and take no income off of our trucks. That money is for the trucks for what they may need.

Now I need to be a fleet owner to understand math? You never answered my question about Panther owners making less on their split, tho.

So since this is going nowhere fast, which is no issue cause everyone is entitled to look at it anyway they want and what some feel is fair others feel is not. We will let this pass. All i know is that we dont believe that our drivers feel taken advantage of and if they do they have not said so and they do read hear on EO so i encourage them to speak up if thats the case. Its all point of view and i cant put mine on everyone or yours either.

I'm just here trying to open eyes to the numbers. You defended your actions, but not the numbers themselves. I believe you to be a noble owner, but my view stands, that the split here is less than the industry standard. You seem to agree. Now that wasn't so hard, was it?

 

[davekc]

Looking at it through a larger lens, I would say most of this is market driven. Drivers may start out lacking the knowledge of compensation, but over time they will determine their worth and adjust accordingly. No different than any other business in that regard.
The bigger issue/challenge in transportation is a fifteen year stagnation in rates and significant rise in operating costs. The ones that can evolve and adapt with these kinds of headwinds, will be the ones you see around years from now.

 

[Dynamite 1]

By no means, but you have to agree also that your point is more about Load One having a lower linehaul therefor equating to lower pay as you see it. Not really about the money but more about Load one. Yes !!!!! Which is fine if thats how you feel. We happen to love it here as well as our drivers do and we accept the way it is as do they, rather it be for better or worse. We are Load 1 !

 

[Tennesseahawk]

NM... thought that was Dynamite's post I was responding to.

 

[Dynamite 1]

Looking at it through a larger lens, I would say most of this is market driven. Drivers may start out lacking the knowledge of compensation, but over time they will determine their worth and adjust accordingly. No different than any other business in that regard.
The bigger issue/challenge in transportation is a fifteen year stagnation in rates and significant rise in operating costs. The ones that can evolve and adapt with these kinds of headwinds, will be the ones you see around years from now.

Exactly Dave, and we intend on being here for awhile.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

By no means, but you have to agree also that your point is more about Load One having a lower linehaul therefor equating to lower pay as you see it. Not really about the money but more about Load one. Yes !!!!! Which is fine if thats how you feel. We happen to love it here as well as our drivers do and we accept the way it is as do they, rather it be for better or worse. We are Load 1 !

Save the cheerleading, Tom, no one is challenging your devotion. You know what I said. I loved it there when I was part of a team. If you had read my first post on the subject, you would notice I gave Load One kudos on being, in my experience, the best outfit for a team. I also said it was not about the way Load One splits their rate, but rather how the owners use it to their advantage. If you're not one of them, then stop making it look like you are.

 

[jjoerger]

One of the advantages of being with a percentage based company is that as the rates go up drivers pay goes up as well. At the flat rate companies there is never that opportunity to get a great paying load. Some of the shorties I've done at Load One have paid a fantastic rate that rivaled FDCC from years ago. I think a contract driver could do very well at Load One running for 40%.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Not really sure I even understand the real argument here.

First off I thinking would agree we are not known or sell ourselves as a "low rate" carrier. I have plenty of owner operators from aforementioned companies that will attest to their numbers being far stronger with us. Please show me where I said that, John.

How a fleet owner compensates a driver is really an internal business function of that owner no matter what carrier they are leased on too.

Yep.

A lot of factors go into those decisions and negotiations. Is the equipment new or old? How are accessorials paid? What other benefits are offered? How are they treated and respected? How much decision making are they allowed? The whole percentage split argument is great but it is about the net result of the package. New/old shouldn't be taken into account. Are you saying the luxury of having a new truck should be passed on to the drivers?

No different than when you were an owner op Hawk. A carrier might have a great linehaul rate but no miles. They might have a great linehaul rate but pay for nothing else or charge for everything. You can package things up a lot of ways and argue it all day but the net is the net. Everyone from owners to drivers makes what they feel is the best business decision for "THEM".

Net is net is like the XPO sales point of "We have more miles... and miles is miles." We used to laugh at that too.

IMO, a run that is percentage is a net thing. Pay is a pay thing.

The rest of this argument is really silly and pointless in my humble opinion.

And you're entitled to your opinion, just like we are. But again, you're contesting mine, and not the numbers I produced.

 

[Dynamite 1]

Save the cheerleading, Tom, no one is challenging your devotion. You know what I said. I loved it there when I was part of a team. If you had read my first post on the subject, you would notice I gave Load One kudos on being, in my experience, the best outfit for a team. I also said it was not about the way Load One splits their rate, but rather how the owners use it to their advantage. If you're not one of them, then stop making it look like you are.

Im not, im simply stating that we have no shame in making a decent profit as business owners and drivers on 40% are not as unjustly treated as you seem to think !!!!!!! I didnt think anyone was questioning my loyalty i was just stating we are happy with it as are our drivers.

 

[ground-pound]

What is the market paying anyway?
I heard in this thread panther pays 1.2 to 1.3 line haul.....avg s.c??
I heard tryours is 1.2 line haul .25 fsc
Load1 is around 1.05 line haul .45fsc?

Anybody have more facts about that?
Yes I KNOW things fluctuate

 

[davekc]

I believe the original premise was why there aren't the typical 60/40 plans in the L1 system. I think it is just how they break the money apart. If the fleet owner is on the 40 percent of line haul only like myself, you have to have a minimum percentage or you are running your truck at a loss. If it is based only against the line haul and say that line haul is 1.00- 1.05 as mentioned, you wouldn't be carrying the total costs of that vehicle. Add in any kind of deadhead, and now you are down in the thirties.
It can start heading south quickly unless you have a balance of much higher paying loads.
Drivers that know the true costs to operate a truck, are going to know you are running at a loss. A quick trip through the calculator will confirm all they need to know.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Im not, im simply stating that we have no shame in making a decent profit as business owners and drivers on 40% are not as unjustly treated as you seem to think !!!!!!! I didnt think anyone was questioning my loyalty i was just stating we are happy with it as are our drivers.

It was the "We are Load One," that... you know... you, uh... got something on your nose.

 

[Dynamite 1]

It was the "We are Load One," that... you know... you, uh... got something on your nose.

Nope, nothing there, i always say that. It is however in the blue stripe on my trucks !!!

 

[westmicher]

Yes, my drivers benefit from having new, very well equiped, well maintained trucks that get many, many compliments from our customers, which inspires great confidence in our fleet. If a driver wants to run a worn out heap that looks like the freight might fall through the floor, I hope they do. We are different on purpose and by design. It works well for us but it's not for everyone. If its not for you, please run for Panther or XPO then... seriously!

 

[westmicher]

I LOVE the way we are paid... on percentage. It's far more fair than ANY flat pay program! When Load-1 procures a higher paying load, we get a higher rate and so do my drivers. When Load-1 has to take an aggressive rate, we automatically participate and so do my drivers. It works out well for us overall. There are dozens of other reasons to work with Load-1 but if you don't agree, please don't add your application to the hundreds on our recruiter's desk...

Did you know that Load-1 only has one recruiter? How many recruiters are at other similarly sized carriers? Why? Load-1 is the best to work with and most of the owners they work with are better than average... that's apparently a winning formula.

I realize this isn't about our most-excellent carrier but it's much more difficult to compensate fairly when a carrier pinches every penny in order to bid the cheapest rates, regardless of quality or customer service.

But "To each, their own!"