Liberals murder four California law enforcement officers

spudhead911 · Mar 31, 2009

To put things very simply, as said many time before, and done in other countries, like Alustraila, the UK and Canada. If you take the guns away from the honest law abiding gun owners the only ones left with guns are the bad guys such as the gangs and gansters. They don't play by the rules and will always have access to illegal guns. In countries where governments have disarmed the public violent gun crime has gone up, while violent crimes against legally armed citizens have gone down. Since the gun bans forced upon the citizens of Canada went into effect violent crime has gone up so much that now the Canadian government is talking about doing away with the gun ban so it's citizens can defend themselves against these attacks by armed criminals.

As far as semi auto guns mis-labeled as "assualt weapons", in about ten minutes maybe less most people can turn any semi automatic gun into a fully automatic one simply by filing down the sear pin. Maybe we should outlaw files for their ability to do that. The law abiding gun owners do not do this, criminals do it.

You can shut down gun shows, you can shut down gun shops, you can take away all center fire ammunition, and you know what? Criminals will still be able to get their hands on guns and ammunition. Why? Because they are criminals! And don't care about laws and restrictions placed on law abiding gun owning citizens.

More deaths are caused by automobiles each year than guns, why not take away our automobiles. most of those deaths are caused by drunk drivers. lets take away booze, wait, that was tried once, remember. Quess what? People still got their booze! to the point that the government finally said if they want the booze that much let them have it and we can tax it and make money on it.

WAKE UP YOU NIT-WITS! The legal guns owned by law abiding citizens are not killing people, its the illegal guns that the criminals will always be able to get that are killing people. Take away our guns and you take away the only real deterrent against an increase in violent crimes. law enforcement is taxed to the hilt due to cut backs in staffing. The police can't be everywhere at once. The bad guys know and understand this fact all to well. Take away our guns and you give criminals what they want. A free hand at mugging, robbing and killing law abiding citizens who will have no way to protect themselves.

LDB · Mar 31, 2009

theoldprof said:
tallcall101 presents a reasonable scenerio,

For a split second I thought you were serious but you certainly must be being facetious. There is nothing reasonable or even sensible in Cal's recent diatribes concerning firearms. His previously well thought and written missives, even though usually incorrect on whatever the topic, are nowhere to be seen. His posts have degenerated into typical liberal fodder that say nothing while belittling those disagreeing.

I briefly considered responding again however if even one legal rifle had been converted into a fully automatic weapon and used to "mow down" numerous individuals the liberal anti-gun media would have been all over that like stink on a june bug. It's fine to murder unborn babies, it's fine to legitimize and legalize criminals trespassing in our nation, it's fine to have government mandated racial discrimination, it's fine to have government mandated religious discrimination and all that would be supported and demanded by those who would then insanely consider inanimate objects the cause of a societal problem in one instance and one only. There are certainly scumbags and lunatics involved but it isn't me or those sane enough to support the Constitution.

tallcal101 · Apr 1, 2009

I see that abortion is now somehow tied up in the notion that getting weapons out of the hands of criminals are inter related.Leo,now who's getting carried away in jibberish. Come on.The scum bags that peddle weapons are low life ignorant greed mongers. They do not distinguish between legal sales and questionable ones.Why is it so against every cell in your being to tighten up the regulations ? All it means is that manufacturers may have to slow down inventory. And profits. So what? My God Leo,how many more millions of hand guns are needed? Rreally man,how many?

I suggest you start talking to a few law enforcement personal about this topic. Paticularly the liberal ones (if you can find any). I guess your in favor chaos (thinking your ready for blood to flow in the streets) and cops are just in the way.Guess what big guy,not in your or my life time.I'm relieved that you rasied your family to be respectful of all the laws and never cross the line. I hope you raised them to respect authority as well.It's not about who has the biggest and badest guns,it's about who has the fortitude to change age old,lobbiest supported miscarrieages of justice and sanity.

If you don't like a womans right to choose ,change the law. It's no different with sane and realistic gun control.

inkasnana · Apr 1, 2009

tallcal101 said:
.Why is it so against every cell in your being to tighten up the regulations ? All it means is that manufacturers may have to slow down inventory. And profits.

That won't change a thing. Criminals are just that.. criminal, and they WILL get the guns that they want regardless. Anyone who believes otherwise is just hiding behind rose colored glasses and naively believing that strict gun control will lead to the peaches-and-cream "Leave it to Beaver" world they are all wishing for. Get real!

spudhead911 · Apr 1, 2009

inkasnana said:
That won't change a thing. Criminals are just that.. criminal, and they WILL get the guns that they want regardless. Anyone who believes otherwise is just hiding behind rose colored glasses and naively believing that strict gun control will lead to the peaches-and-cream "Leave it to Beaver" world they are all wishing for. Get real!

You are absolutely 100% correct. Criminals do not ply by the rules, they will aways have guns. You can ban every gun ever made, prohibit every person from owning a gun, and criminals will still have them. Gun bans only work in favor of the criminals. Disarm the law abiding citizens and you diarm the country. These days you can't depend on law enforcement personal to defend you, their ranks have been cut so much by lack of funding in states and cities that it is up to the legally armed citizens to defend themselves.

LDB · Apr 1, 2009

Cal,

I worked for several years in this industry. I have direct contacts at ATF. I have direct LE contacts. I have in depth knowledge of the rules and regulations governing dealers and direct knowledge (remember those ATF contacts I mentioned just moments ago?) of how well licensed dealers follow those regulations. Cal, you've totally lost it. You are so far out of touch with reality on this issue there isn't even an unmanned drop box where you are. All you are able to do is to call names and blurt out whatever fictitious and erroneous bovine feces you or Sarah Brady can make up spur of the moment.

Cal, a very small percentage of citizens abuse their privilege and criminally misuse their possession harming others while most don't do that. My understanding of your position is that these few misuses are reason enough to consider them optional and remove them from public possession, limiting them to police and military. Yes or no? Answer with a one word answer, yes or no.

inkasnana · Apr 1, 2009

And I believe that there is a real fear among a lot of "would-be" criminals that prevents them from violent, criminal behavior because it nags in the back of their mind that their intended victim just "might" be armed. How many petty theives wouldn't hesitate to advance to more violent criminal acts if they didn't have a fear of possibly being shot by the law-abiding citizen they would victimize? Heck, I won't even step into my dad's bedroom to wake him up because he sleeps with a loaded handgun under his pillow. Fear. It can be a good thing.

tallcal101 · Apr 2, 2009

If General Motors manufactures too many cars and trucks,they sit unsold and the company quits manufacturing. Lobbies can not dictate over inventory. The market dictates inventory and manufacturing quotas.
However,with guns the supply is dictated by two end users that never go away or get enough of thier fix:

1) Kook gun fanatics who are parinoid of their shadows.

2) Criminals. The difference between the two is minimal when you get down to it as most murders occure with legally purchased guns in the hands of drunks or ****ed of spouse's or both.

Manufacturing will never stop feeding the mana of the kooks and criminals. ATF is a joke and has been a joke for as long as they have existed.They are controlled by the tobacco and gun lobbiests,get a clue Leo.Watered down laws that allow billy bob to cross state lines to sell in open bazarrs to any one with a heart beat is hardly iron clad.Again,check your stat's,more murders occure with legal guns against family members or neighbors then shoot boogie men coming in your home.

I'm not out of control Leo,it's those of you who are viewing the rebirth of America with a leader and his wife that reflect true American values. It's got you shaking in your boots.
Markets are strong,some of the bullies like Chaney are facing possible charges (criminal) and there is a sense that we may find our way out of the disaster called the w years.
I'm not trying to make this personal Leo,I resent that you are.
Have a good day.

inkasnana · Apr 2, 2009

Statistics. Here ya go.

According to FBI crime statistics, armed citizens prevent over 78,000 crimes each year. This number only accounts for those incidents that were reported to law enforcement. The NRA estimates the number of crimes averted is closer to 2.1 million per year.

Accidental Deaths in the U.S. for 1998

* 41,200 deaths related to motor vehicle accidents,
* 16,600 in falls at home and on the job,
* 9,400 from poisoning, in the same year,
* 4,100 from water in drowning,
* 3,700 due to fire or burns,
* 3,200 due to choking, and
* 900 from guns

Right to carry laws reduce crime. In their landmark study, Prof. John R. Lott, Jr., and David B. Mustard, of the University of Chicago, found that "allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons deters violent crimes and it appears to produce no increase in accidental deaths. If those states which did not have Right To Carry concealed gun provisions had adopted them in 1992, approximately 1,570 murders; 4,177 rapes; and over 60,000 aggravated assaults would have been avoided yearly.... The estimated annual gain from allowing concealed handguns is at least $6.214 billion....When state concealed handgun laws went into effect in a county, murders fell by 8.5 percent, and rapes and aggravated assaults fell by 5 and 7 percent."3 ("Crime, Deterrence, and Right To Carry Concealed Handguns," 1996. See also Lott, More Guns, Less Crime, Univ. of Chicago Press, 1998.)

Right To Carry states have lower violent crime rates. On average, they have 26% less total violent crime, 20% less homicide, 2% less rape, 39% less robbery, and 22% less aggravated assault, compared to the rest of the U.S. Eight of the 10 states with the lowest violent crime rates are Right To Carry states. (Data: FBI)

Restrictive carry laws have never reduced crime. Of the five major U.S. cities with the highest homicide rates, two (Detroit and Baltimore) severely restrict carrying; two (D.C. and Chicago) have banned handguns.
Excerpt taken from http://www.iapdatacom.net/members/jimrs/gun statistics.htm

According to the 1997 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from -

* a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2%
* a retail store or pawnshop for about 12%
* family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source for 80%

During the offense that brought them to prison, 15% of State inmates and 13% of Federal inmates carried a handgun, and about 2%, a military-style semiautomatic gun.

According to the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) in 2000, victimizations involving a firearm represented 8% of the 6.3 million violent crimes of rape and sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated and simple assault.

The FBI's Crime in the United States estimated that 66% of the 15,517 murders in 2000 were committed with firearms.

Writing in Gun Control and the Reduction of the Number of Arms (PDF), a white paper published in 2000 by the World Forum on the Future of Sport Shooting Activities, Dr. Franz Csaszar, a professor of criminology at the University of Vienna, Austria, said, "non-compliance with harsher gun laws is a common event."

Csaszar also points out:

With results similar to those which result from alcohol prohibition, harsh gun control is known to increase the illegal production, trading and dissemination of arms. Moreover interconnections between the black market in arms and other, more general black markets should be taken very seriously.

layoutshooter · Apr 2, 2009

OH NO!! Not real statistics? Be ashamed. Lies and inuendo are much better than real stats!!!

Way too go INKY!!!! LOL

Layoutshooter

tallcal101 · Apr 2, 2009

You obviously don't live in California.You stats are 11 years old.The munitions industry expererienced it's largest growth period in history under w as the spend on law enforcment from federal funds plunged to it's all time low.
I know,it's trivial,UNLESS YOUR KID GETS CAUGHT IN THE CROSSFIRE.

Pilgrim · Apr 2, 2009

tallcal101 said:
You obviously don't live in California.You stats are 11 years old.

So what are the current stats?

The munitions industry expererienced it's largest growth period in history under w as the spend on law enforcment from federal funds plunged to it's all time low.

What does one (munitions industry growth) have to do with the other (spend on law enforcement)? Maybe it's due to the people's lack of faith in the ability of our law enforcement agents to protect them. I think you'll find that Bush's drop in law enforcement funding was mostly his de-emphasis on border patrol and illegal immigration issues because of his preference to allow illegal Mexicans to flow into our country at will. They seem to favor California - I'll bet they heavily influence the crime stats for your state.

greg334 · Apr 3, 2009

Homicide by firearm in the US – Source FBI

2003
Total 14,465
Total firearms: 9,659
Handguns 7,745
Rifles 392
Shotguns 454
Other guns 76
Firearms, type not stated 992

2004 2005 2006 2007
Total 14,210
Total firearms: 9,385
Handguns 7,286
Rifles 403
Shotguns 507
Other guns 117
Firearms, type not stated 1,072

2005
Total 14,965
Total firearms: 10,158
Handguns 7,565
Rifles 445
Shotguns 522
Other guns 138
Firearms, type not stated 1,488

2006
Total 15,087
Total firearms: 10,225
Handguns 7,836
Rifles 438
Shotguns 490
Other guns 107
Firearms, type not stated 1,354

2007
Total 14,831
Total firearms: 10,086
Handguns 7,361
Rifles 450
Shotguns 455
Other guns 115
Firearms, type not stated 1,705

Justifiable Homicide

2003
Total 247
Total firearms 203
Handguns 163
Rifles 6
Shotguns 20
Firearms, type not stated 14
Knives or cutting instruments 23
Other dangerous weapons 13
Personal weapons 8

2004
Total 222
Total firearms 166
Handguns 138
Rifles 11
Shotguns 7
Firearms, type not stated 10
Knives or cutting instruments 38
Other dangerous weapons 9
Personal weapons 9

2005
Total 196
Total firearms 147
Handguns 123
Rifles 5
Shotguns 6
Firearms, type not stated 13
Knives or cutting instruments 33
Other dangerous weapons 8
Personal weapons 8

2006
Total 238
Total firearms 192
Handguns 154
Rifles 12
Shotguns 15
Firearms, type not stated 11
Knives or cutting instruments 31
Other dangerous weapons 12
Personal weapons 3

2007
Total 254
Total firearms 198
Handguns 159
Rifles 8
Shotguns 21
Firearms, type not stated 10
Knives or cutting instruments 38
Other dangerous weapons 8
Personal weapons 10

California

1997 – I threw this in as a reference to the Clinton Glory Years
Total Murders 2,597
Total firearms 1,832
Handguns 1,631
Rifles 114
Shotguns 72
Firearms, type not stated 15
Knives or cutting instruments 306

2004
Total Murders 2,391
Total firearms 1,724
Handguns 1,442
Rifles 75
Shotguns 69
Firearms, type not stated 138
Knives or cutting instruments 281

No Complied Data for 2005

2006
Total Murders 2,485
Total firearms 1,822
Handguns 1,623
Rifles 74
Shotguns 69
Firearms, type not stated 56
Knives or cutting instruments 315

2007
Total Murders 2,249
Total firearms 1,605
Handguns 1,374
Rifles 51
Shotguns 74
Firearms, type not stated 106
Knives or cutting instruments 298

NOTE; 2008 data is not published at this moment.

AND I do not have accurate data on crimes prevented by firearms but I would bet my truck it is a lot more than the homicide rate - remember a lot of it goes unreported but murders and assaults don't.

LDB · Apr 3, 2009

Greg, there you go again man. Spoiling a liberal diatribe with actual facts that prove how incredibly wrong the liberal position is. Man, you are such a spoil sport. So what you are saying is less than 1% of less than 1% of the firearms in possession in this country are used to kill another. If you really want to spoil their day tell them how many of those murders are one gang banger killing another gang banger which will never stop no matter how many ridiculous gun laws they enact.

You could also tell them the percentage of oparable motor vehicles that are used as illegal weapons to harm others. It will be a higher percentage than firearms but the liberals will never suggest saving a larger percentage by enacting thousands more laws relating to alcohol/drugs/driving.

They'll also never ban private swimming pools to save the hundreds of children who drown every year because again, it's not about saving children, it's all about banning guns. Hypocrisy is what it's all about. Anything to get rid of guns regardless of whether that saves the most lives or not, is legal or not, endangers more lives than it saves or any other legitimate measurable criteria. It's all about the hysterical hand wringers who care nothing about the truth or what's right, only about banning guns.

layoutshooter · Apr 3, 2009

Gentalmen, we all know that banning guns has nothing to do with crime. It is soley done to take away the "Power of the People". Our government was set up with a system of checks and balances. The RIGHT to Keep and BARE Arms is the Ultimate check on the government and the primary protection of the People. Layoutshooter

inkasnana · Apr 4, 2009

tallcal101 said:
You obviously don't live in California.You stats are 11 years old.The munitions industry expererienced it's largest growth period in history under w as the spend on law enforcment from federal funds plunged to it's all time low.
I know,it's trivial,UNLESS YOUR KID GETS CAUGHT IN THE CROSSFIRE.

Ok, here ya go in response to your munitions industry growth..

INDUSTRY SNAPSHOT

The early 2000s were marked by increased sales for small arms and small arms ammunition manufacturers. Ongoing controversy over gun laws helped boost sales and interest in shooting sports, as did concerns about selfdefense, especially in the aftermath of the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001. On the heels of the Y2K bug, which roused fears of possible of power outages, food shortages, and communication failures as a result of computers turning over to the millennium, the industry has seen large numbers of first-time gun buyers in the past few years.

Specialized, niche products helped lead the industry out of its short-term slump, including top-end high-performance ammunition, "cowboy-action" loads, and light recoiling ammunition targeted for the growing market segment of women gun consumers.

So, how is that attributable to criminal behavior? As for "kids getting caught in the crossfire", that is a result of criminal behavior and that is NEVER going to cease just because of gun control. If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. The criminals will ALWAYS get them. Period. If the criminal has no fear of being shot by his intended victim during the commission of his crime, there will be MORE CRIME. Then all those who whined and cried for strict gun control will be whining and crying because they are now the victims of so much more crime.