Big Truck I work on Hino trucks. I'll answer any questions I know the answers to.

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greasytshirt

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Good call. I forgot that button existed, because I never use it. If one comes in with an ABS fault, I hook a laptop up to it using a NEXIQ interface then I can talk to it using Meritor Wabco Toolbox software.
Later models, 11-up do away with the diagnostic button. You'd have to attach to the 9-pin connector with a code reader or with a diagnostic interface and Toolbox.
 

EASYTRADER

Expert Expediter
My 07 338 has 940k miles on it, I replaced the head a few months ago, and its back to using LESS than 2 quarts of oil in 15k miles.

I'm still astonished everytime I pull the dipstick. I use Amsoil 15-40 fully Synthetic oil, with a bypass filter.

I have had my share of issues, but I believe they have been mostly cuased by bad mechanics.
 

greasytshirt

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Mechanic
My 07 338 has 940k miles on it, I replaced the head a few months ago, and its back to using LESS than 2 quarts of oil in 15k miles.

I'm still astonished everytime I pull the dipstick. I use Amsoil 15-40 fully Synthetic oil, with a bypass filter.

I have had my share of issues, but I believe they have been mostly cuased by bad mechanics.

They have nitrided cylinder liners, which are rock hard. They don't wear much unless severely overheated.

Mechanics that are used to savagely overtightening everything will not be a fan of Hinos, and vice versa.

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Dakota

Veteran Expediter
I found the "My Hino Disaster" thread. Ouch.

I have several thoughts about that whole debacle, but that would mean typing a small novel.

That was me and I wasn't too happy, now at a place I am contracted to has a hino with over 450k on it
 

greasytshirt

Moderator
Staff member
Mechanic
That was me and I wasn't too happy, now at a place I am contracted to has a hino with over 450k on it


Most of my thoughts on that disaster is that your dealer was incompetent. They have direct access to a technical service representative that has access to a huge amount of troubleshooting information, and that has power to authorize repairs outside of warranty. I work at a Hino-only dealership, and if your truck had reappeared with the same problems, someone who knew what they were doing would be directed to it immediately.

We have customers with 700-800k on their trucks with few problems. Of course there are a few trucks that are a bit lemony, but if the time is put in to find the underlying cause of a repeat failure, repeat failures stop.
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
For someone returning to a location with any regularity, the dealer, and his service, is more important than the name on the hood.
If you run like most expeditors, you have to evaluate the brand's dealer network.
 

tknight

Veteran Expediter
I would think all the mechanics in a dealership would know what they're doing (wishful thinking) its amazing many t freightliner dealers are clueless on the special spec oil for a mb manual trans!!
 

greasytshirt

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Mechanic
For someone returning to a location with any regularity, the dealer, and his service, is more important than the name on the hood.
If you run like most expeditors, you have to evaluate the brand's dealer network.

This is a fair assessment. From what I'm aware of, most Hino dealers are also dealers of more popular brands, and much more focus is put on training mechanics for popular brands of trucks. Some places have trained people, but rarely see a Hino, so whatever they've learned in training quickly gets lost. For me personally, while I understand how all they systems on the truck work, it's literally taken about a year for me to be able to quickly assess what goes on when one shows up (with a DPF or DPF/SCR related issue), considering about 1/3-1/4 of the time I've been there has been working on Hino. It takes a while to understand them, and even longer to fix them quickly and accurately. I doubt most dealerships will take the time to make a few individuals in the shop proficient in Hinos, especially in areas where they are uncommon.
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
It's the culture of the dealership.

Is the service dept there to support sales and satisfy the customer ?

Or is it viewed more as a profit center, driven by it's bottom line ?

There needs to be a happy medium. The service dept should be profitable, but not at the expense of the customer.

Quality trumps quantity in service.
A quality service dept can charge enough to stay profitable. The smart customers will return for quality service.
 

Dakota

Veteran Expediter
Most of the work was performed by the local Penske branch, but it did go over to Hino for the engine teardown, I don't think they are bad. VoMac is the local Hino dealer here. I was just surprised how many times it went in for various thing at under 200k...with proper maintenance I wouldn't think it would need more than the PM's
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
I worked two years in a very small Ryder Truck Rental Shop.

4-5 men spread over two shifts. We put out quality work. We usually had a light work load. And the Shop Foreman was proud of his numbers.
Some of the larger shops were tripping over themselves.
In a busy small shop they may not have all really good techs, and/or don't take the time to always get it right.
 

greasytshirt

Moderator
Staff member
Mechanic
Most of the work was performed by the local Penske branch, but it did go over to Hino for the engine teardown, I don't think they are bad. VoMac is the local Hino dealer here. I was just surprised how many times it went in for various thing at under 200k...with proper maintenance I wouldn't think it would need more than the PM's

Penske doesn't have the software needed to accurately troubleshoot engine problems. Not a huge deal on trucks up to 07, but after that its impossible.

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usafk9

Veteran Expediter
This is an interesting thread, to say the least. You're an asset to your trade, greasytshirt. Keep up the good work.

There are people who rave about their Hino trucks. So much so, and, after reading this thread all along, that I was actually considering a Hino with a 96" sleeper that sold on ebay a couple weeks ago for around $8500.

I'm going to pick up my 2006 Sterling from the shop tomorrow, for an exhaust leak problem, that has had hands laid to four times this year. Three of those four have been to my mostly local (85 miles from the house) Detroit Diesel shop. The small Mercedes seems to be the bass turd of the Detroit engine world. I actually love the engine, when things are going right, but finding a good shop (I'm giving up on getting one near me) to build a relationship with to give regular work to seems to be a bear. Buying a new Daimler product scares the snot out of me for that, among other reasons.

I'll be starting a thread on that real soon. Prefer to have my work done while I'm on time off, but looks like we'll be doing that from the road.

Again, glad to see you posting, gts. I'm learning a lot.
 

greasytshirt

Moderator
Staff member
Mechanic
I'm glad you're finding this information useful, and good luck on your hunt.

Oh, and Happy New Year!
 

allways

Rookie Expediter
Hello Greasytshirt,

I manage a fleet of 6 Hinos (2009 & 10's) and 30 other assort medium duty tow vehicles. Am a Ford Master Tech and have factory Hino Diagnostic Explorer on laptop. I currently have several J08E-TV with 300K+. We are having a problem with a DPF according to the local HINO dealer.
We described our power loss problem to them and they recommended a filter cleaning based on our symptoms & mileage without diagnosing the vehicle ( no check engine light ). The filter was pulled by us and sent out to be cleaned and was only blown out and according to the cleaning company passed their flow rate test and was not very plugged. It was sent back and we reinstalled and 2 weeks later we had the same problem occur so we sent truck to Hino for them to diagnose. I was on vacation at the time and did not check codes or perform any diagnostics. They said it was plugged so we sent it out (they do not perform their own cleaning due to lack of machine) again and this time it was blown out and baked for 9 hrs and then sent back to the dealer who reinstalled and they told us that it did not pass their pin test which was apparently OK where it was cleaned but the dealer is claiming that when it is installed the truck still is running poorly. I have run the DPF back-pressure test at 200k as instructed in the HINO service manual to determine if cleaning was needed and have never had a high pressure reading so have not seen a reason to have them cleaned at that time. Have other trucks in 300k range with no problems. When I asked the dealer what the back pressure was he stated that there was no pressure sensor and did not know how I was getting my readings. He said there were only in and out temperature sensors. I tried to explain to him and he just seems lost. My tests have never been over 8 kPa and according to my factory manual it could be as high as 23 kPa and still be ok. He has stated that there is a P2002 fault and this is a bad DPF but I believe there are other things that can cause this code also. Diagnostic flow chart is a little vague for this code. Would greatly appreciate you input and hope this will help others to understand these situations also. HD forums are not as developed as the automotive side is currently such as sites like the IATN. Member for 15 years and an indispensable tool for your tool box if you work in professional car land. Well that should give you a few things to ponder.

Thanks in advance for your time and hope all your problems are entertaining enough to keep you from getting bored.

Ciao
 

greasytshirt

Moderator
Staff member
Mechanic
He has stated that there is a P2002 fault and this is a bad DPF but I believe there are other things that can cause this code also. Diagnostic flow chart is a little vague for this code.

Good ol' 2002. There is a stupid number of problems that can cause this code. The book is vague because the code is determined by a logorithm in the ecu. There are many factors, many on the engine side.

Some notes on the DPF: When the engine is running, three things end up at the DPF, exhaust gas, soot, and ash. The gas passes through, soot and ash don't. Soot turns into gas during regen, but ash remains. Ash buildup will eventually plug an otherwise good DPF. That's what this 'pin test' is, as mentioned by the dealer. A piece of wire (something like 0.4mm dia.) is run down into the substrate, and the length needs to be above x amount, x being some number that would require lots of digging, because I have no idea off the top of my head. Theoretically, if the ash level is too high, it will limit the amount of soot that's able to be caught, and the result will be regens needed that are too frequent, and the ecu picks up on this. I'd ignore the pin test right now and rule everything else out first.

So, you have a low power problem with no codes (other than P2002)? That's annoying. There are a few things that can cause this. How much oil is the turbo passing? They all do it, but some are much worse than others. Some oil naturally comes from the breather, and a coalescing filter and different cap can be added (from an 11-13 truck) to help condense the oil vapor back into oil, keeping it out of the turbo intake. If the turbo intake is relatively clean, but oily goo is coming out of the compressor outlet and ending up in the intercooler, this can be a problem. Given enough time, the goo effectively blocks much of the core, starving the engine of air. Take the black outlet hose off of the cooler, start the truck, and hold the accelerator to the floor. A huge torrent of air should blast out. If it seems anemic for any reason, Take the intercooler off and send it to a machine shop that has a hot tank with aluminum-safe cleaner, like Penmul or Oakite, and have it soaked for several hours. Flush it with a torrent of hot water. Put it back on the truck with outlet hose off, start it, hold it to the floor to blow out any debris, and try it again. A clogged air filter, a turbo with excessive shaft play (especially axial play) and any boost leaks can also lead to reduced airflow.
These trucks use EGR, and sometimes the intake tract gets slam full of carbon. Remove the power steering reservoir and mounting bracket and remove the intake elbow, and look inside the intake. I've seen half the diameter of the intake ports covered with caked on carbon. Get one of the PM lackeys to dig all that gunk out of there, taking care not to mash it all into the intake ports.

Back to the DPF: If the two differential pressure tubes are clogged or leak, it will throw the delta pressure reading off. Take the tubes off of the sensor and blow compressed air through them. Check carefully for cracks or holes. Carefully check the harness side of the temp sensors for damaged wires. The front sensor especially, it's subject to more vibration or something than the rear, and the wires sometimes break. You may have to load test the circuit with a headlight bulb. Do a regen to see if the temp readings are realistic. If one periodically does something stupid like go to -400F, then you know there's a problem.
Check the exhaust brake setting (important). Engine at operating temp, use activation test to hold at 980 rpm, take injection quantity reading (should be at least 7mm3, any less indicates injector problem, which will plug a DPF), then turn on exhaust brake. It should shoot up to mid twenties. The difference should be 14mm3. You'll see two limiter adjustments. Don't mess with the one that the arm rests on with the exhaust brake off, only adjust the one that the arm rests on with the brake on. To lower exhaust brake injection quantity, unscrew bolt, which will limit travel of arm.

If the intake throttle valve does not have three small holes drilled in it, it needs to be modified. If it does, then check for play. Only acceptable movement is the twisting motion to open and close it. Any front-rear or side-to-side play means it's worn out.

Don't over fill with oil. It turns to ash and plugs DPF.

Fuel dilution? Check injector return pipe for leakage. Very important, this blows these engines up. Absolutely consult the manual when messing with this thing. I posted a procedure earlier.

Gotta go, have fun!
 

allways

Rookie Expediter
Thanks Greasy

Your intel is spot on from what I understand. I will pull truck out of dealer and start over here.
Just fixed a 2010 Ford F750 Cummins with a similar problem that ended up being a plugged differential tube in intake passage. Did not throw a code either and ran like crap.
Great to talk to someone who can actually still fix things. Will post results of further testing when completed. Not up to speed on this system yet but sure I will be by end of the year at this rate.
If its a car or light truck I have your back.

Thanks again

Ciao

"Assume nothing & Question Everything"
 

greasytshirt

Moderator
Staff member
Mechanic
Thanks Greasy

Your intel is spot on from what I understand. I will pull truck out of dealer and start over here.
Just fixed a 2010 Ford F750 Cummins with a similar problem that ended up being a plugged differential tube in intake passage. Did not throw a code either and ran like crap.
Great to talk to someone who can actually still fix things. Will post results of further testing when completed. Not up to speed on this system yet but sure I will be by end of the year at this rate.
If its a car or light truck I have your back.

Thanks again

Ciao

"Assume nothing & Question Everything"

Once you think you have it solved, do a regen and look at Dpf inlet and outlet temps, and delta pressure. A driving regen is more real-world accurate. Go to customization, find the line that says "pm amount piling up" and change it to 2.5. That will set the Dpf indicator at four bars, and it'll immediately try to regen when you hit the road. Have someone else drive while you look at pressures and temps in data monitor. If you see differential pressure go well past 3psi, then its safe to assume the Dpf has enough ash in it to warrant replacement. A periodic spike above 3 is ok, but 4 or 5 is not. Both temp sensors should show just over a thousand degrees at a steady state cruising speed, 55-60 mph. 900 area is still ok. If it never makes it that high, suspect air flow problem or clogging injectors. Too high means leaking injectors, oil in exhaust, or too much soot or its already clogged. I don't know where ceramic melts, but if you see something like 1300 or so, you need to shut her down.

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