Healthcare

[tallcal101]

Sorry about the typo's,I was trying to do too many things at the same time.I think this new approach by Arnold is very important.Some ask why would the insurance companies go for this?Why would they not just pack up and leave,like in Florida?.I'll tell you why,Worlds sixth largest economy,that why.They cannot afford to walk away from California.Other then oranges and some aerospace,Florida has no measureable GNP.Try getting a load out of south Florida,you know what I mean?
California reinvents itself every 10 yeras,and thats not likly to change anytime soon.New home growth continues to be very aggresive,and unemployment is down.We are a net inbound state again(as we say in the moving business)
Californians have been dealing with immigrants since the dawn of time.They have become a part of of our culture.At one time,California was divided up between a very small number of spanish land owners.Slowly,over many decades,the land was broken up,large ranch's and farms became communities,and evntually morphed into the state it is today.But the spanish infuence has been part of my life,my daily life,since I can remember.We had a Mexican gardner,Manual Oloms,when I was a very young child,and he and his family were like part of our family.I'm still in contact with his grand children.My point here,is yes,the illigals are here in big numbers,the heath care system is under a major strain.Under present law,health care providers cannot turn anyone away.Can we put all the illigals on bus's and ship them back?Not without killing much of our economy.Can we do a better job of keeping more out,yes.Is a worker program possible,yes.
I do not believe that on a state level Arnolds proposal is a"dodo".In fact,I think we will make it happen. Stumble we might at first,but I predict you will see it,the insurance companies will not raise rates to compensate,as they will not be allowed to.The trend will be set for other states to find a way,based their individual needs.It will take employers,insurance companies,individuals,and the state to make it happen,but it is not out of reach by any means.

 

[Fr8 Shaker]

I wish Arnold could govern Michigan too !!!

 

[LDB]

We can easily get the illegals out by cutting them off from schools, medical, welfare and all the other things the ILLEGAL people ILLEGALLY get. Wages went up about 40% in the packing plants where the illegals were rounded up and shipped out. LEGAL Americans now do those jobs at decent wages with benefits. Amazing how the economy picks up when the illegal is taken out. While Arnold is a vast improvement over Davis he's compromising where he shouldn't be. He has to do it or he'd be out but it's time to take the country back from the CRIMINALS. ILLEGAL = CRIMINAL. CRIMINAL = ILLEGAL. The dodo is about to attempt flight.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[Black Sheep]

Arnold's proposal may have that touchy-feely appeal that goes over well with all the liberals and socialists in CA, but one has to be skeptical about how well this plan could be adminstrated in real life when all the unknown factors take hold. Several years ago in TN, a less-than-stellar Democrat governor named McWhorter decided the state could do a better job than the feds at administrating Medicare. He proceeded to create the now infamous TennCare which has been an absolute financial disaster and has almost put the state into bankruptcy. One of the first problems that arose with this turkey of an idea was all the indigents from the eight bordering states pouring into TN to sign up (and this was before the mass influx of illegal Mexicans). The system was overwhelmed with people showing up at emergency rooms with the sniffles, drug addicts looking for a fix and all kinds of people on the rolls that were nothing more than con artists taking advantage of a system that was fraught with corruption and mismanagement. A lot of physicians and hospitals quit taking TennCare patients altogether because they couldn't get paid by the govt. The new governor Bredesen has finally began to get the mess under control by purging about 25% of the people out of the system, instituting more restrictions on qualifications and reducing benefits.

Now consider the more populated state of California and the vastly larger scale of the Arnold plan - its all-inclusive nature and the MILLIONS of ILLEGAL ALIENS that will flock into this giveaway. These plans always sound good on paper and in their initial proposals that are sold to the public, but when it comes time to actually administrate them the bureaucrats and govt. pinheads will find ways to screw it up that the average person could never dream up. Arnold and his advisors might want to take a look at the lessons learned from TennCare before taking this plunge into financial deep water.

 

[tallcal101]

As you may or may not recall,we were not the first Americans.In fact,the Spanish were in Californa long before the Europenas landed.The ranch's I spoke about belonged to Spaniards who conquared Mexico,then claimed Norte California as theirs.But they used Missionaries to tame the hethans,not blood baths.The land originally belonged to the various native Americans who occupied the coast.
Now we can get very techincal here about who invaded and slaughtered who,and who's rights we stomped on,and who's land was stolen,but we all know about the blood bath that stole the west.It was not Doc Holiday and Annie Oakly etc.,it was a group of rich bankers from the east that ordered the blood bath that was paid for by the US Government.Idiots like Custer and his ilk laid waste to women and chldren in the name of the stars and stripes(not alot different then the current mentality).Lets just kill em all and justify it later.Yup,thats how we do it.
If you really want to get technical,I guess that makes us ILLIGALS=EUROPIANS.I wish life was as equational as you make it,we could just cut out entire groups who we don't want around.Go figure.
It's them damned liberals again,trying to get health care for all their citizens,even the ones who pick the fruits and vegie's.You point out canning plants.I'm not talking about canning plants.I'm talking about back breaking HAND PICKING of produce machnes can't pick.Your welcome to come out and give it a try if you think so many American want this work.You like your fresh vegie's and fruits,send all of em home and watch the fields rot.
Cezar Chavez was a hero to all Clifornians,and most cities have a street or boulivard named after him.I'm sure outside of our state he is seen as a commie,pinko,queer,wimp,illigal big mouth.
Thats why most who don't live here should just stay away,and and cast your stones from a comfortable distance.But if you bring your trucks into Cali and they are rattle traps,(I know yours are not)be ready to pay the piper.WE love to take money at the scales,in record amounts!!!

 

[lanier1]

Yes, come here and work. I am sure they do work that otherwise would not get done, but do it legally and if you bring your family with you then teach them the language that has been native to this land for 200 + years. The Italian, Polish, Greeks and all the rest that came here in the 20th century didn't whine about what the govt. was going to do to make it easier for them. They adapted, learned the language, came here legally and became citizens. They were proud of it too. Make them abide by the same laws and rules I have to and stop letting every minority with an axe to grind take advantage of what this country has to offer. If the bleeding hearts want to donate thier own money then fine but don't hold a gun to my head and tell me I have to.

 

[ACE]

Hi Tallcal101,

I do not understand why you critizize Custer for doing his job and our forefathers ordered a blood bath on the poor Native Americans,Mexicans and the Spanish. We did not steal any land we conqured it and if we would not of done it that part of the country would be like Mexico and Central America. They would be crossing the Mississippi River to get jobs instead of the Rio Grande.
I do not remember reading any posts critizing the Northern Generals for what they did to southern landowners and cities. Example Sherman march to the Sea.

If Arnold wants to have a state health plan and the citizens of Cailfornia and their representatives are for it and they can make it work let California have it and I am glad for you.
Let each state decide what works best for them. No national health care.

I am always puzzled why rich socialist thinking business owners, politicians, and activists do not take their families and go by what the Federal Govt. decides what a median income would be for a family of their size and live off that and then donate all the excess money they earn or inherited to a large Socialist Foundation. This foundation can then correct the perceived wrongs done by our great nation, provide healthcare and better education to all, not just the cause of the decade or the one that gets them camera time. Oprah builds a school in South Africa, and the foreign and domestic press think that is tremondous. I applaud her for what she did, but when the USA govt. gives millions for Aids and hunger to Africa the press says it should be giving more. They do not say Oprah you should have built more schools.

 

[LDB]

I forgot to add make English the official and only language allowed for business and financial activities.

Cal, I'm not going to discuss the Indians et al because that's history and we can't do anything about it. My point is the here and now and that actually is as easy and equational (sic) as it sounds. They are here illegally. We can't feed/house/clothe/medicate/educate etc. every human on the earth. We MUST have strict limits and we MUST enforce them as aggressively as anything else. We are giving away our nation. We are going to give amnesty over and over until we are so overrun that the "inmates are running the asylum" or in this case the illegals are dictating the government.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[tallcal101]

If Steven Colbert can make up words, why can't I?Besides,I think it's a good one.Arkjug and I may not be the best spellers in the world,but we are passionate about our opinions.
I agree,lets deal with the present.May I remind you the Mexians have been coming to California,both legally(the brasiro program of the 50's and 60s)and otherwise for as long as anyone can rememeber.
Many good Republican farmers from Orange County(Nixons home)as well as Imperial,San Joaquin and others have sponsered these programs,and lobbied hard against NOT protecting the borders.It was bad business.They had the support of guess who,Nixon,Reagan and Wilson.Major money boys who make big contributions usually get their way.Disregard for the law did'nt matter as long as profit,Republicn politics and a blind eye ruled the day.
Bush has had almost 8 years to deal with it,but has been to busy nation building to give the border patrol 1/100th of the funds they have been scraming for.To busy with those water treatment plants and laughable police staions in Iraq,broght to you by Parsons,Bechtel etc.With the money thats been wasted,we could have built a wall from Laredo to San Diago and back again.Speak to your President and ask him why the situation has gotton so out of hand.Maybe he will throw a few duckets at the border patol who have been all but ignored.
,

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Immigrants have been an issue almost since this country was founded. Brits, French, Scots, and Germans in the 18th and 19th century; Irish, Chinese, Italians, and Poles in the 19th; Philipino, Vietnamese, Jews, Russians, and Arabs in the 20th. Besides the fact that they all were racially targeted, one thing is common in all of these groups. They all wanted to become AMERICAN when they came here! Oh... and they came here legally, for the most part.

The Mexicans are a different story. The legal immigrants, for the most part, are like the groups above. They got jobs in the industry of the times, learned English to the point where they could communicate efficiently, and melded into the surrounding Americans. HOWEVER, the illegal Mexicans are what the hub-bub is about today. They come over uninvited, take jobs that weren't meant for them, don't intend to learn English other than to collect their pay, EXPECT the ppl to accept them and pay for their healthcare, and DEMAND to be treated equally to the rest of country. They don't want to be American. They want to change this country into Mexico!

One thing I was thinking. Mexicans don't wait in line at a counter for service. They push their way up front with no regards for the ppl who were standing there before them. It seems that's the same mentality that they should get across the border NOW, rather than wait for legal immigration.

Tallcal, I'm curious. What would you do if a squatter set up house in your yard? He drives a truck, but works for less for your loads. Then, he moves into your house, and demands you pay his social security, healthcare, give him cheese and food stamps. During the election, he counters your vote with his illegal vote. He gains all of the benefits of being an American without paying the price... instead, you pay it for him. What do ya think, Tallcal? Can I come over and squat at your house? I'll change my name to Miguel and everything. LOL

"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know." - Kansas

 

[LDB]

If it isn't a word it should be. I don't care if Nixon, Carter, Clinton or Bush are to blame.. and they all are.. the point is we must cut these people off before we're the united states of north illegal mexico. You can't compare this to the Irish or any other group because they were basically legal and the mexicans are illegal.. and that includes all variations of them as well as central and south Americans.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[tallcal101]

This is begaining to sound alot like a post that was dropped last weekend.
You obvioulsy have not done much international travel,as you would know what real squatting looks like.Visit Jakarta sometime if you want an education on squatting.The republican farm owners in Calf
just let their families of workers live in filthy,inhumane conditions while they reaped profits.I think I will bow out before I say something I regret.

 

[Black Sheep]

Whatever the conditions are in which they exist, they're obviously better than the way they live in Mexico or they wouldn't be here. Regarding the employers, whether they be Republican, Democrat, Bullmoose or whatever, they need to do jail time when caught employing these illegal aliens. When their sources of income and support are eliminated, these illegals will stay in Mexico, Guatamala or wherever. And no, the ecomomy would not collapse because the work will be done by Americans or LEGAL immigrants that will pay taxes and keep their dollars in the US providing economic stimulus for the USA instead of Mexico.

 

[cheri1122]

If we begin holding responsible those who employ illegal aliens, we wouldn't have to send them home - they'd go back the same way they came in, without costing the taxpayers a cent.
If there are no illegals to do the job, employers would be forced to pay wages high enough to attract workers. I don't believe that "Americans won't do the job", because Americans do a lot worse jobs, like coal mining, assembly lines in factories, garbage collecting - there's a lot of backbreaking jobs that Americans do every day, as long as the pay is sufficient. I worked 8 years in a factory, getting burned spotwelding, slashed in the pressroom, bored to death on the assembly line, challenged to the limit by trying to find a sitter for my school age child when mandatory overtime was posted, meaning "tomorrow you start work at 0430" - I hated every day of that job, BUT: it paid enough for me to come back every day. The mega corporations can afford to pay a decent wage, they just never have had to before, because of the illegals.
Is there a politician with the guts to admit that we cannot continue giving our resources to lawbreakers? To put a stop to the greed that causes corporations to employ illegals?
Maybe Gov. Arnold's plan won't work, but I sure applaud him for doing something, at least.

 

[greg334]

I am wondering why people always bring up the past when trying to defend invaders?

I find the argument somewhat flawed and really insulting, seeing all of the present population had nothing to do with the what happened 100 to 300 years ago. If I could change things, I would but I can’t. Beside we also can blame the French for Mexico – they also invaded and killed for the fun of it.

Now the thing is Tallcal made a point that we need invaders to do the work for produce that must be handed picked. The same argument was made about cotton, blue berries and other assorted fruits and vegetables. I don’t see people in groups picking cotton or blue berries anymore, and I sure don’t see people picking tomatoes – a job I did for several years growing up – Why? Because they do this by machine and almost everything else an be done by machine but it is far cheaper to hire Juan who just came across the Arizona desert with his Mexican government issue GPS unit and backpack full of water, how to steal from the American people booklets and contacts for stolen SS numbers and IDs. My point is simple, we really don’t need them, we really can afford to have a country prosperous without invaders who for the most part don’t give anything in real terms. The sad thing is that people are just to d*mn ignorant to understand the reality that there is no need for the type of labor they provide and the really hard jobs don’t have invaders working them – you have Americans.

The funny thing is that some of these jobs the invaders do are not close to minimal wage. I knew of a few who made $11 an hour, under the table but still $11 an hour. Right now my effective wage is less than $6 an hour and with the van I topped out at $4 an hour.

As for Oprah, I think that she is doing this as a publicity stunt, like some of her other charity work. If she would take lessons from others who do this in silence and in some cases without even having anyone know about it, it would become more effective. But what really bother me are two things; she claims she has failed here helping children, which is not true- she hasn’t really tried and she made the $40M contribution because of Mandela – a terrorist. So Oprah supports terrorism. Beside the country is very violent and she could have used her money and influence in the horn of Africa instead of South Africa. You know I keep hearing that it is her money, well …never mind.