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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Agree...though are they still true for the USA?
Of course they are.

Often, you'll see the Five Founding Ideals listed as...

Democracy - a government when the power is in the hands of the people.
Rights - powers given to people under the law.
Liberty - being independent and free.
Opportunity - the chance for success.
Equality - the state of being the same or even.

These Five Founding Ideals were invented in academia, and while they come close, in a ballpark kind of way, they were used (and are currently being used) to teach a misrepresented version of civics. That list gets promulgated like it's what one of the Founding Father wrote or something, but it's nothing more than a quick and easy list that makes it easy to interpret them to make them adaptable to the cause du jour. The first one that should scream out at you is "Rights - powers given to the people under the law," because that's the exact opposite of one of the Founding Ideals. The People already had inalienable rights, given to them not by laws created by The People, but by their creator.

The Founding Principles, or Founding Ideals, based on the Constitution itself, the Bill of Rights, and the writings of the Founding Fathers themselves are...

Individual Liberty - Each person is born with freedom from arbitrary or unjustified restraint

Federalism
- A system of dual sovereignty, whereby the people delegate certain powers to the national government, while the states and the people retain all other powers.

Limited Government
- The national government has only those powers explicitly granted in the Constitution. If a power is not listed, the national government is assumed not to have it.

Representative Government - A republican system in which the people select representatives to represent their interests as they make and carry out laws. The government can govern only with the consent of the governed.

Private Property - Individuals have the right to obtain and control possessions, as well as the fruits of their own labor.

All Men Are Created Equal - There is no natural class of rulers among people, and everyone is born with the same unalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Separation of Powers - The Constitution establishes a system of distinct powers to prevent an accumulation of power in one branch of government, and to ensure that each branch can stop the others from growing too powerful.

Not a single other country has as its core principles these ideals. Not even the other "democracies" that have incorporated some of them.

Those founding ideas seem to be unique to us today?
In total, yes, although some of them have been moved into the mindset of a few other countries. But no other country has the same ideals incorporated into their foundational daily lives the way the USA does.

Freedom of speech..... to speak YOUR mind....right or wrong.... doesn't seem to be PC in this day and age....
Whether something is politically correct or not is irrespective of the ideal, and the guaranteed right., to do so.

No matter who is attributed with the original quote.... it is still relevant ....

“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it, this is what MY husband bled for.... and carries scars for. Sadly....he feels it was in vain. Probably worse than "in Vain"...but he doesn't speak of it....
It's sad he feels that way.
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator

Here is more info.... you don't like "unsubstantiated quotes" read more from this man.... and his BIO

Smedley Butler - Wikipedia

I'm quite certain his word is solid.... but you be the judge
Old Smedley was dead long before Kissinger allegedly made the remark in question. All I wanted to know was the context in which Kissinger utter those words.

Context is everything when throwing out a quote. Hitler once said: "I love the Jewish People". Hard to believe old Adolph would say that. Taken out of context that's how it stands. But in the context of death camps and gas ovens which he was speaking about and with the following sentence as part of the quote: "Well done". It takes on an entirely different and accurate meaning.

I made the Hitler stuff up to demonstrate how a bare naked quote can take on a totally different meaning. You can quote me on this!
 

C&J

Active Expediter
Fleet Owner
US Marines
Agree...though are they still true for the USA?
Of course they are.

Often, you'll see the Five Founding Ideals listed as...

Democracy - a government when the power is in the hands of the people.
Rights - powers given to people under the law.
Liberty - being independent and free.
Opportunity - the chance for success.
Equality - the state of being the same or even.

These Five Founding Ideals were invented in academia, and while they come close, in a ballpark kind of way, they were used (and are currently being used) to teach a misrepresented version of civics. That list gets promulgated like it's what one of the Founding Father wrote or something, but it's nothing more than a quick and easy list that makes it easy to interpret them to make them adaptable to the cause du jour. The first one that should scream out at you is "Rights - powers given to the people under the law," because that's the exact opposite of one of the Founding Ideals. The People already had inalienable rights, given to them not by laws created by The People, but by their creator.

The Founding Principles, or Founding Ideals, based on the Constitution itself, the Bill of Rights, and the writings of the Founding Fathers themselves are...

Individual Liberty - Each person is born with freedom from arbitrary or unjustified restraint

Federalism
- A system of dual sovereignty, whereby the people delegate certain powers to the national government, while the states and the people retain all other powers.

Limited Government
- The national government has only those powers explicitly granted in the Constitution. If a power is not listed, the national government is assumed not to have it.

Representative Government - A republican system in which the people select representatives to represent their interests as they make and carry out laws. The government can govern only with the consent of the governed.

Private Property - Individuals have the right to obtain and control possessions, as well as the fruits of their own labor.

All Men Are Created Equal - There is no natural class of rulers among people, and everyone is born with the same unalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Separation of Powers - The Constitution establishes a system of distinct powers to prevent an accumulation of power in one branch of government, and to ensure that each branch can stop the others from growing too powerful.

Not a single other country has as its core principles these ideals. Not even the other "democracies" that have incorporated some of them.

Those founding ideas seem to be unique to us today?
In total, yes, although some of them have been moved into the mindset of a few other countries. But no other country has the same ideals incorporated into their foundational daily lives the way the USA does.

Freedom of speech..... to speak YOUR mind....right or wrong.... doesn't seem to be PC in this day and age....
Whether something is politically correct or not is irrespective of the ideal, and the guaranteed right., to do so.

No matter who is attributed with the original quote.... it is still relevant ....

“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it, this is what MY husband bled for.... and carries scars for. Sadly....he feels it was in vain. Probably worse than "in Vain"...but he doesn't speak of it....
It's sad he feels that way.

Hi Turtle.... Thx for allowing me to get to an aha moment!

Ideal..... Must admit, I had to look the word up for clarification, understanding....
When I plugged in the meaning of ideal , so much made sense. Thx!!!
 

C&J

Active Expediter
Fleet Owner
US Marines

Here is more info.... you don't like "unsubstantiated quotes" read more from this man.... and his BIO

Smedley Butler - Wikipedia

I'm quite certain his word is solid.... but you be the judge
Old Smedley was dead long before Kissinger allegedly made the remark in question. All I wanted to know was the context in which Kissinger utter those words.

Context is everything when throwing out a quote. Hitler once said: "I love the Jewish People". Hard to believe old Adolph would say that. Taken out of context that's how it stands. But in the context of death camps and gas ovens which he was speaking about and with the following sentence as part of the quote: "Well done". It takes on an entirely different and accurate meaning.

I made the Hitler stuff up to demonstrate how a bare naked quote can take on a totally different meaning. You can quote me on this!

Sorry moot o_O... I was on my 3rd Mic Utltra of the day, darn bottle still stuck on my big toe.....:oops:.... I confused myself too:confused2: ( for everyone reading... I was home, off duty, still am today )

I'm going to gracefully exit this thread....
:cool:
 
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