Got Salvation..???

FireGears

Expert Expediter
Hopefully, the "Parade Season" thread presented
some food for thought concerning the ability to
choose between eternal life or eternal death...

This article may shine some additional light
on this subject here on the SOAPBOX...

***********************

Saved? From What?
by John MacArthur

Whenever I have preached through the story of Jesus' birth, I am struck with the simplicity and profundity of the Christian gospel. You can see it from the very beginning. It's right there in what the angel said to Joseph, "You shall call His name Jesus, for it is He who will save His people from their sins" (Matt. 1:21).

When the Father gave the incarnate Son a name, He proclaimed His rescue mission in no uncertain terms. Jesus, the Greek transliteration of the Hebrew name Joshua, means "Savior." Now, "there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:12). Jesus is the Savior-that's been the joyful news from the start.

But you might ask: "A Savior? To save me from what?" That's certainly a fair question. The word savior implies that we need to be saved from something. Saved is a synonym for rescued or delivered. It implies there's some kind of threatening condition, a dangerous, desperate, or deadly condition from which we need to be rescued. The question is, from what?

If you listen to the way some preachers speak about the gospel, quite frankly, the condition of unbelief doesn't sound so grave. You get the idea that humanity mainly needs to be rescued from its lack of fulfillment. Maybe your marriage hasn't worked out according to plan; or your child isn't turning out to be tomorrow's Copernicus or Einstein; or your dream career has turned out to be a dead end. You understand. You look at the travel brochures; you really want a month in Europe, but you end up with a three-day trip to see the in-laws. Life just doesn't deliver.

According to the gospel some are preaching, Jesus will take care of all that. Jesus will fix your marriage; He'll help you raise confident kids, brimming with self-esteem; He'll help you climb that corporate ladder or breathe new life into your business. The only danger from which you need salvation is the shattering of all your dreams. Everything you've longed for has turned out to be a nightmare, and that's the way it's going to end. But Jesus will take care of it-He'll rescue you from your unfulfilled life.

I've also heard people presenting the gospel as if the great hope of salvation is relief from debilitating habits. Jesus has come to enable you to get control of your life. He's the step stool, the boost you need to get out of the hole you've fallen into. That salvation is especially attractive to a society like ours that is overcome by lust and passion. Many are enslaved by sinful habits: drinking, smoking, pornography, even overeating. Obesity is on the rise in many countries-in America it's almost epidemic. Angry outbursts and uncontrolled tempers destroy homes and relationships. Sexual sin, both homosexual and heterosexual, plagues the entire world-AIDS ravishes entire continents. But Jesus will come along and fix all that. He'll pluck you out of the flood of dissipation by saving you from your drives and desires so you won't destroy your life.

Will the gospel deliver you from an unfulfilled life? From enslavement to debilitating habits? Absolutely, but that needs to be qualified. There is a sense in which the gospel secondarily makes an application to those things. When you are genuinely converted, you belong to God and the Holy Spirit takes up residence in your heart. You do have a new reason to live; you have the hope of eternal life and the promise of heaven. That has a dramatic effect on the lack of fulfillment in life. And when you experience the power of the Holy Spirit to change you, you'll see victory over the debilitating habits and passions that your sinful nature generates. That's all true. But those are not the primary issues in salvation.

Finding fulfillment and overcoming bad habits cannot be the most important concerns of the gospel. Why not? Because not everybody in the world is unfulfilled. In fact, I think this idea of lacking fulfillment is a byproduct of our western culture. Throughout the world, there are many who live expecting very little out of life. They don't experience a lack of fulfillment-there's nothing to fulfill. On the other hand, many people are very content with their present condition. They've got all the wine, women, and song money can buy. And not everyone is driven to a point of desperation and disaster by their passions either. There are people who have a certain measure of self-control. So those things cannot be the universal problem.

The real problem is sin and guilt. That's the issue. God sent Jesus Christ to rescue us from the consequence of our sin, and everybody falls into the category of sinner. It doesn't matter whether you're among the haves or the have-nots, whether you have great expectations or none at all, whether you're consumed by your passions or exhibit a degree of self-control and discipline-you are still a sinner. You have broken the law of God and He's angry about it. Unless something happens to change your condition, you're on your way to eternal #####. You need to be rescued from the consequences of your sin. Those are the principal issues the gospel solves.

The truth is, even when you are delivered from the ultimate danger of God's wrath against sin, you might never realize your dreams. When you come to Christ, the Lord realigns your thinking so that all you ever wanted, all you used to strive for, you count as loss, waste, garbage (cf. Paul in Phil. 3:4-. Coming to Christ means the end of you. Also, though you'll experience the power of the Holy Spirit to gain victory over sin, you may never attain total dominance over your drives and passions this side of heaven. Like Paul, you will strive with sin to your dying day (cf. Rom. 7:13-25). Issues of fulfillment and sinful passions will be dealt with, in the Lord's time and in the Lord's way. So if you've come to Christ primarily to find fulfillment or to escape from bad habits, Jesus may not be what you're looking for.

The church needs to get back to remembering that God sent His Son into the world to save His people from their sins. A proper presentation of the gospel should focus on that. The angel told Joseph: "He is the one who will save His people from their sins. That is why you must name Him Jesus." Humanity's real destroyer is sin, and the guilt for sin is a real guilt, a God-imposed guilt that damns to eternal #####. That is why people need to be saved, rescued, and delivered. That is what people must understand in the gospel, and that is what we must proclaim.

Adapted from "The Announcement of Jesus' Birth, Part 2" (GC #42-26), © 2003 by John MacArthur. All rights reserved.
******************************************

Wise Men (and Women) Still Seek HIM ... ;)

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FireGears

Expert Expediter
Well, the "parade" thread has been locked...

Based upon the lessons learned there,
maybe this thread can develop some
civil adult discussion...

(((("unique poster count" ... 1 of 4000 = 0.025%))))

STAY FROSTY .. :+

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OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
What is there to discuss?

For me the Bible is a guide or road map to God..There are too many conflicting statements in the Book and way too many open ended storys that can be inturpted too many ways. I think it was meant to be like that because many different roads lead to the final destination but we all end up at the same place eventually. In front of the judge.

At the end of my life I will be judged on my lifes merits....not by words but deeds and actions. The Judges decision will be final!!!
 

FireGears

Expert Expediter
Let ye who knowns no sin cast the first stone.
*******************************

This paraphrase of a Biblical verse/concept
has nothing to do with
sharing the Bad News/GOOD NEWS of GOD's Word.

Bad News
ALL have sinned and will reap the consequences of sin...
Eternal separation from GOD
in a very unpleasant place HE calls "h-e-l-l".

GOOD NEWS
ALL have access to the Salvation provided by GOD HIMSELF.
Only HIS Salvation will be found acceptable.
Salvation from the sentence of eternal death, eternal separation from HIM.
=============================================

What is there to discuss?
For me the Bible is a guide or road map to God..There are too many conflicting statements in the Book and way too many open ended storys that can be inturpted too many ways. I think it was meant to be like that because many different roads lead to the final destination but we all end up at the same place eventually. In front of the judge.
At the end of my life I will be judged on my lifes merits....not by words but deeds and actions. The Judges decision will be final!!!
*****************************

Well, this short paragraph provides for plenty of discussion...

"For me the Bible is a guide or road map to God.."
**************

That's not what GOD says about HIS Word.
HIS Word is an explanation of reality...
HE has, from the first verse to the last verse
of the 66-Books of the Bible,
proclaimed HIS Reality and HIS Rescue Mission
clearly, specifically, in no uncertain terms.
============

"There are too many conflicting statements in the Book and
way too many open ended storys that can be inturpted too many ways."
*************

If a person went to a museum to view a beautiful painting
but focused upon just a single brush stroke
that single brush stroke might seem "conflicting" and "open ended".

Yet, when the person views the entire painting
the single brush stroke will suddenly make complete sense
as a necessary part of the whole presentation.

Thus, the Truth of the Bible.
It must be viewed in the entire Reality of GOD.
=======

"At the end of my life I will be judged on my lifes merits....
not by words but deeds and actions."
**********

A common belief but it is not part of GOD's Reality.
GOD has clearly stated in HIS Word that there is Salvation
in no one else except through JESUS CHRIST.

Thus the merits/actions of any human will never be adequate.
==============

"... many different roads lead to the final destination ..."
***********

This is a rough presentation of Biblical Truth...

Wide is the road to distruction/death/damnation,
narrow is the path to Salvation/Life/Heaven.

"THE PATH", (singular)
as stated in GOD's reality, is JESUS CHRIST, and HIM alone.
==============

"In front of the judge."
*****************

Total Biblical Truth..
ALL will be before the JUDGE...
EVERY knee will bow,
EVERY tongue will confess that "JESUS CHRIST is LORD"

BUT, at this point there will be a separation..
Those who accepted GOD's Reality for Salvation
(deingning their "wisdom" and accepting GOD as SAVIOR)
will be spending eternity with HIM, in Heaven

Those who deigned HIS Salvation and who choose to present
their "works and deeds" as "justification for salvation" ,
in rebellion to GOD's Plan/GOD's Reality,
will be separated from the GOD of Heaven in a place called "h-e-l-l"

There, for eternity, one of the horrors they experience
will be to review "their wisdom/plan" vs. HIS Plan
=============

Wise Men (and Women) Still Seek HIM.. ;-)


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greg334

Veteran Expediter
FG, I am not trying to pick on you or say that you are wrong to post as some do but I am compelled to post something due to a reality that I had to deal with this morning.

I had breakfast with several people today of several religions, it is something I have not done in a while and regularly occurs here in the area. The discussion is such that we openly talk about religion in a civil and meaningful way to learn from one another and to learn more about our religion. It has been surprising how a bunch of people can get together, Muslim, Jews, Catholics, Orthodox and Christian among others like Wicca and pagans (the clean ones) and have real in-depth respectful conversations without fighting or name calling, until today.

This morning’s breakfast was ended because of someone for what ever reason took it upon them to preach – first rule of this group is not to preach. Now we don’t know why but we know who, the person claims to be a devote Christian of the Calvinist sect and said something along the lines of what your saying without hesitation. What triggered this was a comment from a Muslim gentleman about brainwashing of people by modern religions and how his, with Christians and Jews have the same problems. This instantly led into a denial, yelling at all of us that we are going to h*ll and preaching. From a few of our standpoints, this person had less of a clue about his sect of religion than most who has gone off on other occasions.

I think that I know what issue I am having with your post is that religion is a personal thing, not something that one can say whether it is right or wrong, and surly not one who has not made much in attempt to learn beyond their scope.

Not to be insulting but I feel that the idea that you can simply judge another by saying it is not a road map, rather unchristian. And that is what you are doing, judging another for their beliefs without actually understanding what they may be or how they actually came to that conclusion in life – you can’t tell it by one paragraph.

It, the bible is in fact is a road map for personal salvation, as much as it is a tool to learn. It also has open ended stories for a reason but it also has been edited for political and social issues over the years – a fact you can not ever deny. No one can really dispute that it is a road map, it is a tool and it is a story book but it also has a very serious purpose and people who demand that you follow it, be it the corner preacher or the guy on TV, it is actually used for more than that. Surly better men who lived in the past have recognized the fact of it’s important and message, written about the fact and even died for it. My contention is with you and this guy this morning is the idea that many of us need preaching to, we don’t. To have a good discussion on religions matters, one must remove the preconceived notion that is prevalent in many of the writings of ‘leading Christians’ today. In a way, your comments are refreshing but sometimes too defensive or antagonistic some times and truthfully tiresome. Not that I would like to see you go away, but to open your eyes for a moment.

As for who you are quoting, there is something to be said about him – John MacArthur but I won’t go into it. I think that Beecher made the mistake of moving religion into the touchy feely world – if you know what I mean.

As for the bible itself, please don’t pull that KJ is the only version stuff, when you start talking about pre-reformist translations I will listen. I find it mind boggling that you can select a bible for your life style; you can select one that will fit you – blasphemy.
 

FireGears

Expert Expediter
Greg,

Thanks for the very civil reply.
It was quite refreshing.

I do believe that you (and maybe others)
have misunderstood my discussion for "judging".

I'm not "judging" if I disagree with a statement.
Just presenting my thoughts.

Hopefully, as the discussion continues,
this point will be recognized and accepted.

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FireGears

Expert Expediter
(((( "unique poster count" ... 4 of 4000 = 0.1% ))))

Continuing the Discussion ...

"... the bible is in fact is a road map for personal salvation ..."
*******************************

I agree that it could be used as a "road map"
for understanding GOD's Plan for Salvation
============

".. it (the Bible) also has been edited for political and social issues over the years –
a fact you can not ever deny ..."
******************

I would admittedly deny that "this is a fact".!!
Why, because there are far more copies of Biblical manuscripts
than for any other book on this planet.
These copies prove that the Bible has not been changed.

NOW, that is not to say that "religions"and "cults" have not produced
their own "bible" or mandatory supplemental "bible guides" that have
attempted to change the timeless TRUE message of The Bible.
========================

My contention is with you and this guy this morning
is the idea that many of us need preaching to, we don’t.
***********************

None the less, there may be SOME who ARE interested, soooo
I'm standing here on the SOAPBOX and proclaiming
An URGENT LIFE or DEATH Message...

GOD's Bad News and GOD's GOOD NEWS
(A The Reality HE Presented in HIS Word and through HIS WORD)

ALL have sinned and have a choice..
their "way" or HIS WAY for Eternity

ALL will one day stand before the GOD of Heaven...

EVERY knee will bow,

EVERY tongue will confess that "JESUS CHRIST is LORD"

At this point there will be a separation..
Those who ACCEPTED GOD's Reality for Salvation
(deigning their "wisdom" and accepting GOD as SAVIOR)
will be spending eternity with HIM, in Heaven.

Those who deigned HIS Salvation and who choose to present
their "works and deeds" as "justification for salvation",
in REBELLION to GOD's Plan/GOD's Reality,
will be separated from the GOD of Heaven in a place called "h-e-l-l"

There, for eternity, one of the many horrors they experience
will be to review "their wisdom/plan" vs. HIS Plan
=============

"It has been surprising how a bunch of people can get together, Muslim, Jews, Catholics, Orthodox and Christian among others like Wicca and pagans (the clean ones) and have real in-depth respectful conversations without fighting or name calling ..."
**************************

I understand how "religionists", "cultists" and "occultists" and "pagans" (the clean ones.???)
can gather and interact as the majority of these folks
will all have the same little-g god in common.

BUT, let someone uncompromisingly proclaim GOD's Reality
and HIS singular Way of Salvation...
well, the atmosphere will rapidly turn rabid.

Yet, read the Bible.
The Apostles DID JUST THIS in similar ecumenical settings.

Why..??? Because it is a LIFE or DEATH Message for all sinners.

Having a polite ecumenical breakfast
does not provide Salvation to ANYONE.

Hearing the WORD of GOD and
accepting HIS Way of Salvation is the only Hope... for everyone.!!!!
=======================

Wise Men (and Women) Still Seek HIM... ;-)
 

ManLaw

Seasoned Expediter
Greg, From one seeker of the truth to the other...I applaud you. I too have had many discussions and tried to learn the ins and outs of others way of worshipping and thinking. Over the years I have delved into as many religions as I could. What NOW keeps me AWAY from most of them is the he!! and damnation that most all condem you to. To each his own and harm NO person is a better way to approach each day from MY point of view. I have my own personal relationship with a higher power. While I have yet to be absolutely certain in what form that exists. I chose to now live by the theory that I would rather believe in a higher power and find out when I die that there is none than NOT believe and find out when I die that there IS.

Firegears, as you can see I have addressed NOTHING that YOU have said. I EXPECT NOTHING to be said FROM you. I addressed what Greg has said and therefore apoligize for going off topic on what YOU have to say. I CHOOSE not to address your way of thinking and WILL NOT respond to anything you have to say on this topic.
 

arkjarhead

Veteran Expediter
firegears,
i understand where you are coming from in one respect. you are trying to share the good news of the Lord Jesus Christ with others. We were told in the Book of Matthew to go all over the world and witness to people so that they may be saved and baptized. also known as the great commision. of course that was a paraphrase and not a word for word reciting.
Now onto the matter of homosexuals. The bible says it's a sin so I believe it's a sin. I have a cousin who is homosexual and I pray for him often. I've witnessed to him in the past, but his mother and her mother told him from a small child his was meant to be a female. they told him he was a little girl trapped in a little boys body. his grandmother said she saw this in a vision from the Lord. He was given baby dolls to play with and girls underwear instead of little boys. he was allowed to put on high heels and carry a purse. at the age of 5 he decided he wanted to change his name from john michael to veronica. so one of two things can be said. he was born that way or his mind was warped as a young child by his "christian" mother and grandmother. I belive he was convinced at a young age that he was a female.
I only know of one sceintific study about weather a homosexual and hetrosexual males brain is any different. There maybe more.I forgot who did the research but all the homosexual men died from HIV/AIDS and the only part of the brain that was different is the section near the brain stem .Our proffesor said HIV/AIDS has some form of effect on that portion of the brain so the findings were inconclusive.I hope that made sense.
In closing I think if you wanted to present the good news of the Lord Jesus Christ you couldv'e done that without singling anyone out. If you just wouldv'e said for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and then maybe quoted John 3:16-17 (16)For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son ,that who so ever believeth in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.(17)For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world;but that the world through him might be saved.
 

FireGears

Expert Expediter
(((( "unique poster count" ... 7 of 4000 = 0.175% ))))

Manlaw wrote ...
To each his own and harm NO person
is a better way to approach each day
*********************
Sound great doesn't it..

Yet, ....

If you had learned that the "bridge was out" up ahead
would you travel that route.?? Probably not.

BUT, would you warn others.??
Well, if you live according to the worldview stated above
wouldn't you just sit back and say nothing.??

"To each his own."
They chose the route... It's not your concern.... RIGHT.???

"Harm no person."
You might insult and harm someone's self esteem if you
suggest that they are going the "wrong way"
and MUST change their way to live.... RIGHT.???

So, just sit by and allow others to drive off to their death..??
How about friends or family members.???
Just let them go.??? .. RIGHT.????

NOT BLOODY LIKELY.!!!
You'd be out there yelling, screaming, waving, pleading,
repeating over and over...doing whatever you had to do
to get their attention, BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE..!!!

THEY ARE BOUND FOR DEATH..!!!

If necessary, you'd have no problem even going beyond
the conventional norms of discussions/presentations.

You'd continue even in the face of possible negative,
hateful reactions and even threats of violence.

WHY.???
BECAUSE IT'S IMPORTANT.... IT'S LIFE or DEATH.!!!!
*************************

Thus, I'll continue...
Just as many "continued" with me before it was too late.

Some may ignore The TRUTH to their peril.

Yet others will accept the
Mercy, Grace and Love of JESUS CHRIST and will be saved.

And That's GOOD NEWS.!!!!

Wise Men (and Women) Still Seek HIM ... ;-)
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
FG,

“I would admittedly deny that "this is a fact".!!

You sir don’t know the history of either man or the Bible.

â€Why, because there are far more copies of Biblical manuscripts than for any other book on this planet.
These copies prove that the Bible has not been changed.â€

Bibles haven’t changed?

Oh come on, just the translations between Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic have been revised so many times, it is hard to pin down a specific passage without the entire book. God does not do the translation; Man does and this is where the problem is, interpreting what was meant in Greek to a language that has no meaning full words for anything close to a proper translation opens it all up for revisions of thoughts and writing. If you took any lessons on how the bible was made available, then you would realize that the scribes were at times the only person who made a decision on what was copied.

I can point to a few things that you many not understand that the most common version of the most common bible, KJV was a mess because of language translation problems and it was a derived work by committee. Going back to other translations, things are lost and things are gained. At one time the bible was not in the hands of the common man, it was not until the reform of the offshoot of the two main branches of Christianity did it come to have a common man’s bible.

Politically the bible has been changed for a number of reasons, just look at Henry VIII and the creation of the Church of England, talk about a mess, and talk about political motivations behind the changes, the casting off of the mainstream church.

“NOW, that is not to say that "religions"and "cults" have not produced their own "bible" or mandatory supplemental "bible guides" that have attempted to change the timeless TRUE message of The Bible.â€

What TRUE message? The English message or the Greek messaage or the message that Jesus spoke in Aramaic?

The message once passed down, once written or once translated is open to interpretations of the translator or the reader. If the reader is living during the times of St. Jerome, you had several messages to choose from. It was he who put it together (simplified version) using the best of the Greek texts available at the time to figure out the mess. You know that there are only 27 books but there are a few hundred pieces of writings that have been claimed to come from the Apostles. Who is to say that there should be 28, 30 or even 50 books.

For me it was an easy choice, listen to man or seek the truth. I took the harder path in seeking the truth, not just for what you call salvation as is always prescribe. In doing so, I took the path to learn the language, learn the differences and to see for myself what is true and what is not. Sorry I don’t see that with the messages I read from you, I have read them many times before.

“None the less, there may be SOME who ARE interested, soooo
I'm standing here on the SOAPBOX and proclaiming
An URGENT LIFE or DEATH Message...â€

I agree that some would be interested; this is one reason for the attempt to debate this. I have long forgotten more than you may ever know, but nonetheless I am trying to remember for all to read.

“I understand how "religionists", "cultists" and "occultists" and "pagans" (the clean ones.???) can gather and interact as the majority of these folks will all have the same little-g god in common.

BUT, let someone uncompromisingly proclaim GOD's Reality and HIS singular Way of Salvation... well, the atmosphere will rapidly turn rabid.â€

First, yes clean one – you have never had to deal with true pagans before.

Second, it is not that someone was proclaiming God's Reality and his singular way of salvation, it was get in your face judgment of others with a narrow-minded insulting terms used – this was the departure between you and him, you have yet to do anything like that. But the issue at hand is this, I am catholic, my church has the largest membership followed by the orthodox church and I was told because I didn’t believe his sect of religion, I am going to h*ll as were others sitting there. We did not say, “Jim, your religion sucks and it is because of the Christian narrow-mindedness, you have created more hatred from Muslims, Hindis and even Jews.†What the comment was simply that all religions have experienced brainwashing throughout history and the Muslims have been deal with it more than anyone else because of the numbers involved – that’s all.

“Yet, read the Bible.
The Apostles DID JUST THIS in similar ecumenical settings.â€

Read the bible? The apostles did what? Ah, let me see the New Testament was written between 40 AD to 140 AD, Peter (Simon) surely didn’t read the bible.

Oh well, I am tired now.

Manlaw, thanks.

I find the enlighten people are the ones who deviate with a purpose and come back to what they were brought up on or have believed. Be it a Catholic, Baptist or Jew, God allowed us to live as we choose and he expects us to better ourselves through experiences, good deeds and education, even talking to people of other religions helps us.

One thing that I must point out is the idea that many can read the bible and can have a clear understanding of it. Sorry for those who think that way but there is and were people who have devoted their lives to study and still don’t grasp it.

I have learned there are basics, there are ethics and one thing that I strive is to live as I should, help when I can and believe, that is all that is asked of us in reality. What God has in store for me, I don’t question, I accept and I don’t worry about it. If this does not fit anyone’s specific desire and they preach or tell me otherwise, well I try to be respectful, listen but I know it will never change my mind. I wish some I run into would take a lesson from the JWs, I have never heard one of them tell me that I will go to h*ll because I don’t believe what they believe.

What I find even more bothersome outside the fire and brimstone preaching is the lack of compassion in some who say they are strict followers – maybe my most recent attempt at fund raising has taken the shine off of the ‘I believe that people will help’ thing inside of me. I know what the teachings of the prophet Jesus are about, like I said I practice them as much as I can and try very hard not to deviate from them but when I asked for help establishing a non-profit, I was met with some “how much you need†from many who were not followers and met with silence from followers. I see this with a lot of people, a lot of the time. I believe if you are truly Christian, you give, you sacrifice for others and yourself. As one friend has done, you give up your material things to prove or help – he has inspired others to do so. For some reasons not being a mainstream Christian but a greedy Catholic, I have outdone most.
 

yaaintdeadyet

Expert Expediter
Rhetoric is tiresome. Faith is inspiring. Much as it was to those who penned their creators mind. To take the stance to stand for nothing of faith is simply groundless.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Oh...yawn.
I'm unique guest.....who knows the number?
Who actually cares?

Gregg,
Your right wih your info but "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink"


The fallen evangelist Jim Baker said the quickest way to obtain followers is to go after the uniformed. I think that is what we are witnessing here.
















Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
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Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
One thing that I must point out is the idea that many can read the bible and can have a clear understanding of it. Sorry for those who think that way but there is and were people who have devoted their lives to study and still don’t grasp it.

Greg, you are missing the whole point. We have Mr. McArthur to sift through all those silly old words and explain what God is really trying to tell us.
 

FireGears

Expert Expediter
I'm unique guest.....who knows the number?
Who actually cares?
**********************

Normally I would not bother answering this
"off-topic" question..

But, since a member of the ModSquad has asked...

T/Hawk, that's "WHO" ...

This convenience was created for him
based upon his past interest...



Stay Frosty ... ;-)

plus ...
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I don't usually participate in religious discussion because it makes the controversy level of political discussion look like a chat about white vs color socks however I will just add to this discussion that I have friends who are scholars in Hebrew and Greek and have EXTENSIVELY studied the scriptures. I have it on good authority that the New American Standard version of the Bible is an extremely accurate rendition with the New International version being a slightly less accurate but somewhat more readable version.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB
OOIDA Life Member 677319, JOIN NOW
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 
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