Gang initiation

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Turtle

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Yeah...............You make it sound like Every BIBLE Carrying Bus Driver on this Planet has "Gang Initiation" MEMORIZED to be able say it was a GANG INITATION right off bat on the day 3 Black Youths try to take their life away by not only Stabbing them...........but also shooting them 3 times.
Is that how I make is sound? Interesting.

If 3 Black Youths shot me tomorrow..........and I did NOT hear one of them say 'GANG INITIATION"..... OR refer to it in one way or another.............GANG INITIATION would probably be the LAST thing come to my mind............if not 2nd to last thing.
Same here

FUNNY..................2 of the main Liberal RAGS here are the only 2 Doofuses questioning whether it was a Gang Initiation Attempted Killing or not...............

Keep going you two...............LOVE it when ya'll choose LOSING Battles!!! :p
I assume you mean someone other than me, as I am not even remotely close to being a liberal. I'm not a wacko, tho, so maybe that's it.
 

Turtle

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What were your comments from your first post based on? Sounds like just a baseless opinion conjured up with filled in facts.
I didn't jump to conclusions filled in with facts. What part of the "What if" part of my first post do you not understand? The comments from my first post were based on one of many possible alternate explanations, conjured up with pure hypothetical speculation, except I didn't present any of them as factual.
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
I didn't jump to conclusions filled in with facts. What part of the "What if" part of my first post do you not understand? The comments from my first post were based on one of many possible alternate explanations, conjured up with pure hypothetical speculation, except I didn't present any of them as factual.

Ok fine. You were just throwing hypothicals out there. I thought maybe you had some pertinent information about the bus driver? Like does he have a drug problem? Failed drug tests on the job? Was the bus actually malfunctioning. History of crime or false reports?
 

Pilgrim

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The different it makes is the thread title of this thread, and the very first sentence in this entire thread took pure allegation as stone-cold fact.

An eyewitness or video? No, not necessarily, but he certainly needs something other than his sayso to corroborate it.
Under these circumstances - no he doesn't.
"Attacked" has not been proven, and yes, it actually does matter what one of the alleged punks might have said. What if, instead of what the victim claims to have been said, one of the punks actually said, "If you don't stop hitting Jamal I'm going to shoot you three times and then Travon is gonna stab you!"?
It doesn't matter "what one of the alleged punks might have said" unless there is corroboration from eyewitnesses or video. You just said whatever Wagoner claimed is hearsay - you can't have it both ways. Has Jamal or any of the other gangstas come forward to press charges against Mr. Wagoner?

Fact: hypotheticals and speculation don't hold much water in this instance. The police and FBI seem to agree that this was an attack and attempted murder, and will likely proceed accordingly unless/until Jamal steps forward to claim self defense - with Travon and his brother as eyewitnesses.:rolleyes:
 

Turtle

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Ok fine. You were just throwing hypothicals out there. I thought maybe you had some pertinent information about the bus driver? Like does he have a drug problem? Failed drug tests on the job? Was the bus actually malfunctioning. History of crime or false reports?
Nope. Nothing. I know exactly as much about the bus driver as Leo does, which is nothing. Therefore, I get to speculate just as ridiculously as anyone else. :D
 

Turtle

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Under these circumstances - no he doesn't.
I promise you, if he wants to have his statements to be corroborated in some way, he'll have to have something that corroborates them.

It doesn't matter "what one of the alleged punks might have said" unless there is corroboration from eyewitnesses or video.
If you sayso. But it does, as Aristotle adroitly pointed out. Whatever was said, or in lieu of corroboration of what was said, what is claimed was said is what gets presented to a grand jury.

You just said whatever Wagoner claimed is hearsay - you can't have it both ways.
I absolutely did not say that, or say anything even remotely similar to that. I said he made a claim as to what they said to him and as to what happened, in which we only have his word as to the validity of what he claims. That's not hearsay. That's not even in the same ballpark as hearsay. Hearsay is third party information. Since he was a participant, hearsay doesn't even come into the picture.

Has Jamal or any of the other gangstas come forward to press charges against Mr. Wagoner?
I have no idea. If he and they were involved in a drug deal, or the distribution of illicit black market daily devotionals, it's highly unlikely that they would. I mean, have you ever heard of a drug deal going bad, and whomever was wronged filing charges with the police?

Fact: hypotheticals and speculation don't hold much water in this instance.
Which is precisely my point.

The police and FBI seem to agree that this was an attack and attempted murder, and will likely proceed accordingly unless/until Jamal steps forward to claim self defense - with Travon and his brother as eyewitnesses.:rolleyes:
I don't know what the police and FBI agree on.

It's likely that things happened just as the bus driver said they did, but until the facts come out we don't know that for sure. My point in all of this is twofold: one, to see just who I can get stirred up and bent out of shape by throwing out absurd speculations, and two, to throw out those speculations to point out the absurdity of taking assumptions as conclusive fact. But it is hard to get at the facts, with news outlets having headlines and stories that state "Bible Stops Bullets" and "Ohio bus driver Rickey Wagoner’s life was saved by a Bible on Monday morning, as it “miraculously” stopped two bullets from entering his chest," when it wasn't a Bible at all, and there is nothing miraculous about a book dramatically reducing the inertia of bullets. Even the press can't get the facts straight.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
What were your comments from your first post based on? Sounds like just a baseless opinion conjured up with filled in facts.
You need to learn the inherent difference between an opinion (which is a statement), which espouses a position ... and a question, which takes none ...

If you can't differentiate one from the other, you're in a world of hurt ... ;)
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Logically fallacious, overblown hyperbole:

Yeah...............You make it sound like Every BIBLE Carrying Bus Driver on this Planet has "Gang Initiation" MEMORIZED to be able say it was a GANG INITATION right off bat on the day 3 Black Youths try to take their life away by not only Stabbing them...........but also shooting them 3 times.

FUNNY..................2 of the main Liberal RAGS here are the only 2 Doofuses questioning whether it was a Gang Initiation Attempted Killing or not...............

Keep going you two...............LOVE it when ya'll choose LOSING Battles!!! :p
You could have been beat silly, within an inch of your life ... and you would still think you are "winning" ... and "victory" was at hand ... ;)
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Ooooh ... lookey here ... looks like the mutt is exercising the grey matter, considering various possibilities which may or may not have a factual basis:

Ok fine. You were just throwing hypothicals out there. I thought maybe you had some pertinent information about the bus driver? Like does he have a drug problem? Failed drug tests on the job? Was the bus actually malfunctioning. History of crime or false reports?
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
#IsYlentlbasheroffhismeds?
#DoesYlentlbasherdreamofAbbyss?
#IfYlentlbasherhadtosave1personKlienorhamaswhich1wouldthatbe?
 

Turtle

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Is it me, or does Ylent sound like a Catholic-Jewish holiday?
 

Brisco

Expert Expediter
Is it me, or does Ylent sound like a Catholic-Jewish holiday?

Uh Ohhh.............

That in itself would sure be one HELL of a Discussion!!!!

Let's NOT go down that road...................YLent is difficult to deal with on a regular / daily Jewish Hating basis as it is! :rolleyes:
 

Turtle

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Uh Ohhh.............

That in itself would sure be one HELL of a Discussion!!!!

Let's NOT go down that road...................YLent is difficult to deal with on a regular / daily Jewish Hating basis as it is! :rolleyes:
I think you just picked the wrong road to go down.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
YLent is difficult to deal with on a regular / daily Jewish Hating basis as it is! :rolleyes:
You should probably look up the legal definition of defamation ...

Then contemplate what the ramifications of that might be on current or future boat ownership ...
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I promise you, if he wants to have his statements to be corroborated in some way, he'll have to have something that corroborates them.
He probably started with his wounds, and that seems to have established his credibility.
I absolutely did not say that, or say anything even remotely similar to that. I said he made a claim as to what they said to him and as to what happened, in which we only have his word as to the validity of what he claims. That's not hearsay. That's not even in the same ballpark as hearsay. Hearsay is third party information. Since he was a participant, hearsay doesn't even come into the picture.
The implication is crystal clear - that Wagoner made an uncorroborated statement about what one of the gang members said. "an item of idle or unverified information..." (see #2 in the link)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hearsay?s=t
I don't know what the police and FBI agree on.
FYI:

"The FBI is now leading the probe into the non-fatal shooting.
“We’re investigating this as a hate crime because of the information provided by the victim,” Dayton Police Chief Richard Biehl
told the newspaper."

Ohio bus driver saved from gunfire by biblical book may have been victim of hate crime: cops* - NY Daily News
It's likely that things happened just as the bus driver said they did, but until the facts come out we don't know that for sure. My point in all of this is twofold: one, to see just who I can get stirred up and bent out of shape by throwing out absurd speculations, and two, to throw out those speculations to point out the absurdity of taking assumptions as conclusive fact. But it is hard to get at the facts, with news outlets having headlines and stories that state "Bible Stops Bullets" and "Ohio bus driver Rickey Wagoner’s life was saved by a Bible on Monday morning, as it “miraculously” stopped two bullets from entering his chest," when it wasn't a Bible at all, and there is nothing miraculous about a book dramatically reducing the inertia of bullets. Even the press can't get the facts straight.
Making an issue that the book wasn't really a Bible, but a biblical book is kind of nitpicking. But I'm in total agreement that the press implying that Wagoner's life was saved by a modern day miracle is completely over the top. It seems they would have us believe that the slugs from this .25 caliber popgun would have penetrated any other type of publication. The papers must have decided to put this religious spin on the story to add some spice and attract more readers - they need all they can get, even Christians.

However, since we're throwing around hypotheticals let me add one of my own: what if the driver had been black and his attackers had been white kids? I'll bet the Bible wouldn't have been mentioned at all, Al & Jessie would be raising h*ll and bussing in the rent-a-mobs for marches, there would be a national manhunt going on to find the perps and this would be the lead story on all the mainstream media TV channels. Just speculating...
 

Turtle

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The implication is crystal clear - that Wagoner made an uncorroborated statement about what one of the gang members said. "an item of idle or unverified information..." (see #2 in the link)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hearsay?s=t
You still don't understand the definition of hearsay. His claim of what he was told by his attackers isn't idle, and it's definitely not "unverified information or gossip" as he is making a direct claim (he witnessed what was said). What they said may be unverified, but his claim that he heard it is a direct claim (what he personally witnessed). The fact that he said it is verified, because he's the one who said it, but what they actually said is not verified. But that's not hearsay (unless he uses what they told him as proof in court that they were taking part in a gang initiation). Hearsay would be if he is making a claim that someone else told him happened, something that he didn't actually hear. If you were to say, "Rickey told me that the attackers told him..." then your statement about what Rickey was told would be hearsay, because you didn't personally witness them telling Rickey anything. But Rickey saying, "I heard them say..." would be direct testimony of evidence of what Rickey heard, even if Rickey's testimony of what they said cannot be verified or corroborated.

From the same Dictionary.com page:
Hearsay
Information heard by one person about another. Hearsay is generally inadmissible as evidence in a court of law because it is based on the reports of others rather than on the personal knowledge of a witness.

In this case, Rickey has direct personal knowledge as a witness. He didn't hear about what the attackers said (hearsay), he heard it directly from the attackers.

If what the attackers told him is not able to be verified, that doesn't make Rickey's statement hearsay, it simply makes it an unverified allegation. Hearsay can be corroborated and verified, and still be hearsay, by the way.
 

Brisco

Expert Expediter
You should probably look up the legal definition of defamation ...

Then contemplate what the ramifications of that might be on current or future boat ownership ...

Do what???

Is this the time I say "Man Up"...................

Or.............

Tell you quit being such an offended B................

Either way..................Defamation my Asssh..............................:rolleyes:

Good Gawd................You really THINK you are THAT IMPORTANT around here????

Sheeeez...............
 
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