Felons commit over 90 percent of murders, More Gun Control Needed??

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
I don't think so.........

A few on here have been on a rampage for a bit over control and the fact that any kook can get a gun..well most people that take the time to look at gun laws realize that we have more then enough laws on the books to cover just about any situation that would arise for either letting some one own a gun or removing a gun...all gun control laws do is "control" the law abiding citizen, the bad guys still get the guns or whatever other weapons they need. To that end, this article you'd think would open the eyes of anyone who real had an "open mind" about gun control:


From the article:

Felons commit over 90 percent of murders, with the remainder carried out primarily by juveniles and the mentally unbalanced.

only 15 percent of all Americans have criminal records, yet more than 90 percent of murder suspects have a history of crime. Their criminal careers average six or more years’ length, including four major adult felonies, in addition to their often extensive juvenile records.

There is ALOT more to the article, take the time to read it. When our courts get serious about law breakers, you would see a drop in gun violence, until then, all of the gun laws we have now and any enacted from here on out are only going to be imposed on the "law abiding citizens", the ones that don't commit crimes to begin with...........

Here is the link for the article:

Oh one more thing, this article is from SF / CA, you know really close to OAKLAND where the 4 officers were just killed, as a matter of fact, the article was written AFTER the shooting and the Shooter is spoken about in the article...

www.sfexaminer.com >> Opinion
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
While I agree with the article, looking at the numbers and they way they are presented, there seems to be a clear remedy for murders. Or, at least more than 90% of them, anyway. If 90% of murderers have a previous felony conviction, then anyone who is convicted of a felony should be sentenced to life in prison with only a 90% possibility of parole after serving 90% of their sentence. There ya go. More than 90% of murders eliminated.

(I love that "more than 90%" mantra that is so popular these days, in everything from murders to the percentage of guns smuggled into Mexico to the percentage of people who instantly die when subjected to second hand smoke. You hear it so often that you just glaze over and tune it out, which can be a problem when you run across actual numbers like these in the article that are actually true.)
 

Dakota

Veteran Expediter
More gun control is not needed. Felons don't purchase guns the legal way anyways. So gun control does not mean a thing to them. It just makes it harder for John Q. Public to purchase a gun.
 

pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
I was trying a few days ago to find some stats just for my own information, but I had a difficult time coming up with what I was specifically looking for, and on top of that, the articles I did find seemed to be at least 3 years old.

I was wondering though, how many of the murders committed by previous felons were committed using guns stolen from legal gun owners? And how many little kids die because their legal gun owning parents failed to store them properly? And how many legal gun owners have lost it on their wives/significant others and shot them during a hot tempered domestic dispute? And how many legal gun owners committed suicide using their guns, becuz it was easy during a rough time? And how often is an assault, murder, rape, whatever, actually prevented by a legal gun carrier? And how many teen boys go into their parents' locked up legal gun cabinet to get a gun to kill themselves with?

Not trying to cause waves here, just wondering about this stuff, and also where to find these kinds of stats?
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
If you want the gun haters #'s , contact the Brady people. If they don't have them, they will make them up.........

But other then that, google is your friend. To answer 1 of your questions, I just googled,
"how many legally owned guns are stolen then used to comment a crime?"

I got over 9000 hits

So i looked at Canada, because ALL handguns have to be registered their. In Dec the mayor of Toronto said that 1/3 of all guns used in the commission of a crime was at one time a legally owned and then stolen gun:

The Toronto Observer How: Solving the gun crime problem

Now if you think about it ALL guns that are stolen from a legal owner are use in a crime, because the gun as soon as it is stolen the person having it can be charged with recieving a stolen weapon.......
 
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LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
As Leo has always said...A crime committed with a gun...should be a max jail sentence and stick to it...

I have NEVER said that. I have said a felony committed while in possession of a weapon should result in capital punishment every time with NO exceptions. Execution should be carried out on the Friday nearest the first anniversary of the crime after a best 2 out of 3 limit on conviction/appeals. IOW, convicted is 1 and the only defense allowed appeal determines the outcome of 2. If guilty that's it. Executed. If innocent the state has the option to go one appeal higher and that's the last word. Executions would be by hanging on the courthouse square of the county seat of the county the felony was committed in. Monday morning the bodies would be removed. THAT is what I've always said. I know our resident girlie men wimps will quiver and cry and wring their hands and approach apoplexy at the thought of justice for anyone other than the criminals but the real men and the real citizens will get it.
 

pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
If you want the gun haters #'s , contact the Brady people. If they don't have them, they will make them up.........

I don't want gun haters #'s, I don't want made up numbers, unlike some others who post here, I was looking for valid, proven information in the way of statistics which aren't slanted one way or another.

Thank you for your leads, I did spend quite awhile the other day, but I guess I must have been punching in the wrong search terms for what I was looking for. I will try again.


chefdennis said:
Now if you think about it ALL guns that are stolen from a legal owner are use in a crime, because the gun as soon as it is stolen the person having it can be charged with recieving a stolen weapon.......

I'm not convinced that just being discovered with a stolen weapon would be considered using a gun during the commission of a crime. Another thing to look up.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
A weapon is any firearm, any blade weapon with a blade 1" or longer, any object capable of being used as a club or other striking device weighing over 4 ounces and any other object judged by a jury of one's peers as capable of being used as a weapon of harm against another individual. Basically anything other than your Chapstick or Kleenex.
 

ritasroy

Seasoned Expediter
I don't think so.........

A few on here have been on a rampage for a bit over control and the fact that any kook can get a gun..well most people that take the time to look at gun laws realize that we have more then enough laws on the books to cover just about any situation that would arise for either letting some one own a gun or removing a gun...all gun control laws do is "control" the law abiding citizen, the bad guys still get the guns or whatever other weapons they need. To that end, this article you'd think would open the eyes of anyone who real had an "open mind" about gun control:


From the article:





There is ALOT more to the article, take the time to read it. When our courts get serious about law breakers, you would see a drop in gun violence, until then, all of the gun laws we have now and any enacted from here on out are only going to be imposed on the "law abiding citizens", the ones that don't commit crimes to begin with...........

Here is the link for the article:

Oh one more thing, this article is from SF / CA, you know really close to OAKLAND where the 4 officers were just killed, as a matter of fact, the article was written AFTER the shooting and the Shooter is spoken about in the article...

www.sfexaminer.com >> Opinion





Guess our national leaders didn't expect this, hmm? On Thursday, Darrell Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High School shootings in Littleton , Colorado , was invited to address the House Judiciary Committee's subcommittee. What he said to our national leaders during this special session of Congress was painfully truthful.

They were not prepared for what he was to say, nor was it received well. It needs to be heard by every parent, every teacher, every politician, every sociologist, every psychologist, and every so-called expert! These courageous words spoken by Darrell Scott are powerful, penetrating, and deeply personal. There is no doubt that God sent this man as a voice crying in the wilderness. The following is a portion of the transcript:

"Since the dawn of creation there has been both good & evil in the hearts of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must not be in vain. Their blood cries out f or answers.

"The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used.. Neither was it the NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain's heart.

"In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA - because I don't believe that they are responsible for my daughter's death. Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with Rachel's murder I would be their strongest opponent.

I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy -- it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best.



Your laws ignore our deepest needs,
Your words are empty air.
You've stripped away our heritage,
You've outlawed simple prayer..
Now gunshots fill our classrooms,
And precious children die.
You seek for answers everywhere,
And ask the question "Why?"
You regulate restrictive laws,
Through legislative creed.
And yet you fail to understand,
That God is what we need!



" Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, mind, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and wreak havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our educational
systems for most of our nation's history. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact. What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine's tragedy occurs -- politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws. Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts..

"As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes, he did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge every young person in America , and around the world, to realize that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back to our schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him. To those of you who would point your finger at the NRA -- I give to you a sincere challenge. Dare to examine your
own heart before casting the first stone!

My daughter's death will not be in vain! The young people of this country will not allow that to happen!"

Do what the media did not - - let the nation hear this man's speech.. Please send this out to everyone you can. God Bless
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
The above is a true statement made by Mr. Scott, but it wasn't anywhere close to last thursday, it was made sometime in 1997, after the shooting at Columbine. It was a heartfelt statement from a broken hearted father that was more about getting God back in our schools then Gun control.

I read it a few yrs ago over on AR15.com, I don't have any idea how it went over when it was read, but i have to believe that simply out of respect to this man who had just last his daughter along with other kids and teachers in his communitee, he would have been treated respectful by those hearing him, i don't think people would walk out or be put off by his words...
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
The weapon of choice for murder in the kitchen is a kitchen knife.

Very few suicides in Japan are carried out with guns. Japan does not allow guns. Japan has the highest suicide rate in the world.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Gee Leo I was close...I know your tough on punishment...nothing meant by it....

No problem. I just reiterated it with the emphasis to make sure the intensity was placed in the proper places. I did fail to include that running from the police, with irrefutable video evidence of doing so, should also be a capital offense.
 

mjolnir131

Veteran Expediter
No problem. I just reiterated it with the emphasis to make sure the intensity was placed in the proper places. I did fail to include that running from the police, with irrefutable video evidence of doing so, should also be a capital offense.

I might add immediate, in the act, you run and the cops are filming they have permission to use deadly force.
 

mjolnir131

Veteran Expediter
The weapon of choice for murder in the kitchen is a kitchen knife.

Very few suicides in Japan are carried out with guns. Japan does not allow guns. Japan has the highest suicide rate in the world.

And I believe that down under when they got rid of all guns the murder rate when up and they just started hacking each other up with axes, swords, knives and machetes. So where does it end? having an unlicensed rock or stick is a felony?
 
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