Done Deal

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter

Schumer tends to raise the bar whenever the opportunity presents itself, though.

Schumer said. “A fairer agreement would have coupled a reduction in sanctions with a proportionate reduction in Iranian nuclear capability.”

Uhm, Chuck, that's precisely what the agreement did. Unless "proportionate reduction" is supposed to mean "complete elimination," or something.
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
The right wing news is saying it was a bad deal and actually do a good job of providing the reasons why. Surprisingly even the libs aren't really standing up and saying it was a good deal. The libs are just saying what else was there that could be done. The neutral reports are basically saying it is something that needs to be watched because the Iranians are liars and have no real reason to follow through which points to the fact it was a bad deal.

http://news.yahoo.com/bad-iran-nuke-deal-better-no-deal-british-002225644.html

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/11/24/israel-slams-iran-nuclear-agreement-calls-it-a-bad-deal/

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-24/imperfect-iran-deal-may-be-u-s-least-bad-option.html

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/25/opinion/frum-us-iran-deal/

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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I absolutely love this quote, from Yoel Guzansky, a researcher at the Institute for National Security Studies at Tel Aviv University and former Iranian nuclear monitor for Israel's National Security Council.

"It's a bad agreement because of what it symbolizes," he said. "It means Iran is getting an acceptance, a signature that it's a legitimate country."

This, coming from a guy who lives in, of all places, Israel. What a hoot.
 

purgoose10

Veteran Expediter
Regardless of what's been agreed upon, having studied the Koran, and Bible prophecy it's okay for Muslims to lie. They're one and only mission is to concur the world. It's also okay for them to kill a family member (it's done regularly) if they sway from the Koran's teaching's.

So deal with a Muslim? No way. Deal with a President who lie's with each breath? You figure it out. You don't deal with a Muslim period.

Just to ad information. In the final 10 yrs of Mohammed's life he was engaged in 62 military campaigns.
Does that sound like a peaceful existence?
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Surprised it took this long for that comment to be made. Somewhat surprising it came from you though, I expected it from the usual suspects.
Why are you surprised about any of it? It's true. GOP legislators are easily distracted and have the attention span of a oh look, chocolate milk!
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Regardless of what's been agreed upon, having studied the Koran, and Bible prophecy it's okay for Muslims to lie.
It's clear you haven't studied the Quran, or the Bible very carefully. It's only OK for Muslims to lie in the same circumstances that it's OK for Christians to lie. It's is definitely permissible for both. And it's forbidden by both under the same conditions. Maybe you should "study" these religious texts at different, non-biased Websites, and maybe actually read the texts in context.

They're one and only mission is to concur the world.
Onward Christian Soldiers. Same thing.

It's also okay for them to kill a family member (it's done regularly) if they sway from the Koran's teaching's.
As for killing family members (and others) for diverging from the teachings, both the Bible and the Quran encourage it. Demand it, actually, and generally for the same reasons. Both the Quran and the Bible specifically talk about "honor killings" and demand the offender be put to death. It's just that Muslims tend to be faithful to the Word than most Christians.

So deal with a Muslim? No way. Deal with a President who lie's with each breath? You figure it out. You don't deal with a Muslim period.
You can easily replace "Muslim" with "Christian" and the same things apply.

Just to ad information. In the final 10 yrs of Mohammed's life he was engaged in 62 military campaigns.
Does that sound like a peaceful existence?
No, it doesn't sound like a peaceful existence at all, and it wasn't. After years and years of persecution in pagan Mecca, Muhammad and his followers emigrated to Medina, where they hoped to live in peace. Instead, the folks from Mecca repeatedly attacked them in an attempt to eradicate them from the planet. He spent his final 10 years in a constant state of war with Mecca.
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
Why are you surprised about any of it? It's true. GOP legislators are easily distracted and have the attention span of a oh look, chocolate milk!

They want to be ahead of the next issue so that they can try to keep people upset with Obama. Obama does a good job of letting us down on his own so I'm not sure why the Republicans try to prolong the dog and pony show.

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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
** Point will taken. I did read several articles on FDR and our entry into WW2. There are still some documents that need to be released to make a firm conclusion. Lots of good info and lots on inconclusive info, but a great read overall. IMHO- FDR knew more then we shall ever know-- that cable to Pearl Harbor on an immanent attack, gave no date, but hey,,Pearl Harbor could have gone into high alert ( general quarters so to speak ) asap. History is a funny thing, ideas of what ,who ,where and who knew what are easily to assess after the fact... I will read more on FDR soon.
sky,

If ya get the chance, and feel so inclined, get Robert Stinnett's book: Day of Deceit: The Truth About FDR and Pearl Harbor

Very detailed review of the actual intel and radio intercepts ... and very copiously foot-noted ...
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
No it was incorrect.
If that's how you feel, then show how it was incorrect ... rather than just asserting that it was.

For starters, you can explain what we obtained from the Iranians ...

Or point to something documenting how their nuclear program didn't increase on Bush's watch ...

Or show some evidence that the US was talking to them.

We aren't supposed to negotiate with terrorists which we know their leader has a hardline anti-American stance.
Terrorist: a word that is becoming essentially meaningless due to it's overuse and misapplication ...

... one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter ...

Not sure how you didn't understand the point that Obama and his minions constantly blame the poor economy and anything bad on Bush but when it comes to this deal he gets no credit.
Well, since you quoted my statement and then said this:

"The really odd part of the statement is that Bush is to blame for the economy and everything bad several years later but yet gets no credit for everything he did to stop Iran"

... and referenced no other statement in your reply, I understood you to be referring to my statement. If you were referring to another, which one was it pray tell ?

Obviously the Iranians were interested in having the sanctions eased, getting the Iranians to this point wasn't Obama's doing.
Assuming you think that sanctions are actually what brought them to the table and given the fact that Obama signed legislation that imposed even harsher sanctions, and that as the Executive, he was the one who imposed and enforced said sanctions, how can you say that it wasn't (any of) Obama's doing ?

On June 24, 2010, the United States Senate and House of Representatives passed the Comprehensive Iran Sanctions, Accountability, and Divestment Act of 2010 (CISADA), which President Obama signed into law July 1, 2010. The CISADA greatly enhanced restrictions in Iran. Such restrictions included the rescission of the authorization for Iranian-origin imports for articles such as rugs, pistachios, and caviar. In response, President Obama issued Executive Order 13553 in September 2010 and Executive Order 13574 in May 2011, and Executive Order 13590 in November 2011.

Is your Obama Derangement Syndrome so bad that you have to deny him all responsibility for something that he may have played some part in causing ?

As to the theory that sanctions are what drove them to the table:

It was not sanctions that brought Iran to the table - FT.com

I also read another from a former State diplomat which posited a similar premise - that it wasn't sanctions so much as it was a (partial) change in leadership (the election of Rouhani)

Correct but the word of a liar, terrorist, and extremist has no value
On that basis the word of the USG has no value ...

so there is no reason to celebrate or claim Obama has done anything at all other than fall for the same type of BS promises that they broken before.
The ODS is very strong in this one I fear ... yes, very, very strong ...

Oh and hand these extremists and terrorists several billion dollars like a complete idiot.
It's the money of the government of Iran ...

Yes ... very, very strong ... :rolleyes:

They are the important ones.
The statement has already been walked back or conceded in a limited way ...

The fact of the matter, is that Iran does have the right to enrich (at least to enrich for peaceful purposes - which is what Iran claims to be doing) ... and it is acknowledged (by implication) in the NPT ... if you doubt that fact, read the relevant language in the NPT.

BTW, I've heard it asserted (but haven't verified it myself) that the USG has actually argued the right to enrich both ways (does have/does not have) ... depending on the country involved ...

#forgettheruleoflaw #wejustmakeitupaswegoalong
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Regardless of what's been agreed upon, having studied the Koran, and Bible prophecy it's okay for Muslims to lie. They're one and only mission is to concur the world. It's also okay for them to kill a family member (it's done regularly) if they sway from the Koran's teaching's.

So deal with a Muslim? No way. Deal with a President who lie's with each breath? You figure it out. You don't deal with a Muslim period.

Just to ad information. In the final 10 yrs of Mohammed's life he was engaged in 62 military campaigns.
Does that sound like a peaceful existence?
#religiousbigotry #wingnut
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
The right wing news is saying it was a bad deal
Oh, well ... now there's a really big surprise ... :rolleyes:

I saw Billy-Bob Kristol this Morning Joe ... he was apoplectic and in "total meltdown mode" ... I think actually saw spit flying out of his mouth ...

He tried to interrupt and cut off Robin Wright (Wilson Center) while she was explaining why it was a good deal and likely the best that could be obtained (given the circumstances) ... and she just told him to shut up ... and he obeyed ...

It was utterly hilarious ...

Chickenhawk neocons begone ...
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
The "centre-right Times" is completely incorrect on the Iranians right to enrich ... and given that ...

An article by a hasbarat mouthpiece for the GOI and Nut-and-Yahoo (check her articles) ... published in a outlet which is owned by a guy who received the "Defender of Israel Award" from the Zionist Organization of America and is, himself, a Christian Zionist:

At ZOA dinner, Glenn Beck dishes out the pro-Israel meat | Jewish Telegraphic Agency

#notanhonestbroker
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Surprisingly even the libs aren't really standing up and saying it was a good deal. The libs are just saying what else was there that could be done.
Of course with a such a broad generality, it really depends on who you are talking about ... who the specific individual is ... and what their interests and agenda is ...

From the standpoint of politicians, it actually isn't surprising at all ... the Israel Lobby is something that all politicians have to contend with ... regardless of party.

$113 million dollars is a lot of coin ... to say nothing of being targeted and smeared:

Pro-Israel: Money to Congress | OpenSecrets
 

purgoose10

Veteran Expediter
It's clear you haven't studied the Quran, or the Bible very carefully. It's only OK for Muslims to lie in the same circumstances that it's OK for Christians to lie. It's is definitely permissible for both. And it's forbidden by both under the same conditions. Maybe you should "study" these religious texts at different, non-biased Websites, and maybe actually read the texts in context.


No, it doesn't sound like a peaceful existence at all, and it wasn't. After years and years of persecution in pagan Mecca, Muhammad and his followers emigrated to Medina, where they hoped to live in peace. Instead, the folks from Mecca repeatedly attacked them in an attempt to eradicate them from the planet. He spent his final 10 years in a constant state of war with Mecca.

You need to study a little deeper into why he moved to Medina. Has nothing to do with his followers, it has to do with tribal leaders.
Oh I guess you haven't heard of the Lake of Fire.
I don't study Websites sir. I know saying anything on this site will be over ridden by you and your knowledge of everything.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
You need to study a little deeper into why he moved to Medina. Has nothing to do with his followers, it has to do with tribal leaders.
Well, why don't you educate us - by either quoting, or referring to, actual sources which support your assertion, and which refutes his ?

Oh I guess you haven't heard of the Lake of Fire.
Well, I dunno about him ... but I sure have.

While the Meat Puppets original version was quite good, I personally prefer Nirvana's cover of it:


I don't study Websites sir.
Begs the question (what do you study ?)

I know saying anything on this site will be over ridden by you and your knowledge of everything.
Well, in the matter of taqiyya - which you completely mischaracterize as "it's ok for Muslims to lie" (giving the impression that it's "ok" to lie about anything, for any reason) - he happens to be correct ... and you happen to be quite wrong.

IOW: it's makes you a careless (or maybe a calculating) perverter of the truth.

It (taqiyya) is an issue which Islamophobic wingnuts - many of them devoted followers of Jeebus - have perverted and mischaracterized to serve their own agenda of spreading ill-will and hatred.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Regardless of agenda, they (we) probably should have thrown in the preacher guy to get him out.
Was kind of surprised they said he was never mentioned.
Tht is the only place republicans may have a point. At least for now.
 
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