Dems vs. Repubs

Robsdad

Seasoned Expediter
Not much of a choice here. After reading all the Dem badgering on here I decided to compare the two to see if the badgering was warranted. Lets start with a good economy in the 90's to where we are today. Republican badgering here. We are approaching a 10 Trillion dollar debt. We are in a war so the numbers will only increase. We have lost over 3000 young men and women in this conflict with no end in sight. Mexicans are flooding in to this country daily. Oil companies are boasting about record dollars made. A president that sees no wrong in the American people paying more for petroleum products as long as his rich oil cronies make their unheard of profits. Tax breaks for all the companies that ship our jobs to who knows where. Tax breaks to the upper class to boost up our economy. Sorry GW that hasn't worked. Trickle down does not reach the level of the middle class. Tax breaks for all the rich to he** with the middle class or poor people. My granddad once told me when we were looking at a litter of 6 puppies, he pointed out that the 3 over there are republicans and the 3 over there are democrats. I said grandpa how do you know. He said its easy son the republicans don't have their eyes open yet. If the overspending republican majority congress and senate of the past 7 years hasn't opened your eyes yet, then I guess badgering is your best way to vent your frustration with this mess.
The democrats have little to brag about also. They have overspent way to much in the past. But you know I have seen time and time again here about entitlements. Let me ask you a question. Would you rather see entitlements to the American people causing and impact of 10 trillion dollars or would you rather spend that money to rebuild a country we had no reason to invade to begin with. I for one would rather see the money spent in this country regardless. I believe electing another Republican equals more of the same. I am for change if Democrats will bring that then they will get my vote.
We now return you to your regular scheduled programming.
robsdad
 

Bob and Hooligan

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Thanks for a good message. No republicans were hurt during this message.

I would like to see more of this type of message, and less of the "she is ugly, and He is a Muslim" stuff that usually appears here.

Keep up the good work.

Road Hooligan
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I would rather no entitlements since nobody is "entitled" to anything other than Constitutional rights. I'd rather a flat tax so nobody could erroneously claim rich conspiracies and favoritism. Read the thread about the 10 guys at the bar.

The only problem or issue I have with this thread is the idea the warts identified on the dems aren't real warts just like the ones named on the repubs. Things weren't peachy keen with the dems so how about just saying everybody on both sides are worthless since that's the truth of the matter. The truth is we're just as doomed if your precious dems win as if the repubs win. The dems are down to a coin now. Heads or tails, it matters very little, it's just as bankrupt a currency as the other side.
 

Jayman

Expert Expediter
As a die hard Repub...I hope Mcain isnt our man. I would certainly vote for him over Hillary since I have seen and heard enough about her since 1992 to make an informed decision on her and her obnoxious behavior. But, like I said...im not sold out on Mcain either.

I think Obama is head and shoulders above Hillary. But, if I looked hard at him...I would probably have issues with him too.

Too make a long story short...I will probably end up voting against somebody this time versus voting for a chosen candidate. :(
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Not much of a choice here. After reading all the Dem badgering on here I decided to compare the two to see if the badgering was warranted.

Lets start with a good economy in the 90's to where we are today.
OK let’s start, the economy in ’93 was faultering, Clinton’s years were in part
helped by the big boom in the tech sector that went bust around the 2000 election. We shored up the losses by boasting the housing market as Clinton was leaving office by lowering interest rates which gave way two years ago but was ignored. The tax plan of Bush helped offset more than the rich, they did get breaks but when you look at the overall revenue intake, we didn’t faulter as much as many wanted people to believe. The war has not helped but neither has the far left, the far left has absolutely prospered and I have yet heard from Woopie or Paul Newman on how much wealth they don’t have today after complaining that they are not being taxed enough.

We are approaching a 10 Trillion dollar debt. We are in a war so the numbers will only increase. We have lost over 3000 young men and women in this conflict with no end in sight. Mexicans are flooding in to this country daily.
I agree with you, our debt is too high but it is not always the republicans to blame, it starts with FDR and deficit spending he started. We were alright going into the depression but he tried to micromanage the economy just like the dems want to do today and look what happened. The loss of people in the war is tragic but how are we supposed to do this, there is more than Bush saying we needed to go to war, so who is to really blame? I say that they all are. Look at the dems too for the invasion, it is not just a republican who has caused the problem, Clinton did nothing except deport a kid to Cuba.

Oil companies are boasting about record dollars made. A president that sees no wrong in the American people paying more for petroleum products as long as his rich oil cronies make their unheard of profits.
If you examine the real profits, you will find there is more to it than what they are reporting. I mean take Exxon, they own the wells, they own the refineries, they have the transportation system intact, can they save more money than say communist Citgo? Of course they can and that is a reflection in the profits. But here is the thing about Oil and the price of fuel, it is not the price itself that matters but the taxes. We pay pretty much the same for fuel than say the Canadians or the Japanese (to be exact much of the crude from Alaska ends up in Japan), so with Exxon posting record profits, is it the sale of gas and diesel that are making them the money or is it that all products combined make them the money? Remember that they are into a lot of industries, like plastics. But also let’s not forget one thing, our government is what is causing the problem by controlling the market. Let’s just say that Exxon produced gas at $1.00 a gallon at the pumps, can they actually offer gas at the pumps at that price? No why? Because the government will not allow that type of pricing which they will say it is unfair to other companies, another FDR type control.

Tax breaks for all the companies that ship our jobs to who knows where. Tax breaks to the upper class to boost up our economy. Sorry GW that hasn't worked. Trickle down does not reach the level of the middle class. Tax breaks for all the rich to he** with the middle class or poor people.
OK, I do agree with the tax breaks for companies who ship jobs over seas but that is a democrat thing, not a republican thing and it was put into the tax code in the mid-90’s and signed off on by Clinton.

When you come down to it, who really give a **** about the rich anyway. I am concern with myself and my tax burden and worrying if a millionaire pays his ‘fair’ share of taxes is not anywhere on my radar and should never be. The thing is this is class warfare, created by the dems in the early part of the 20th century to better themselves with the public and it should not even exist today. I know that the poor is not actually growing as much as the rich are and the middle class are becoming poor because of the redefinition of what poor is. Now it is less than $75K according to Obama and Hillary the last I read their rhetoric. We have in this country welfare for people who make $40K, my God how disgusting is that, $40K.

My granddad once told me when we were looking at a litter of 6 puppies, he pointed out that the 3 over there are republicans and the 3 over there are democrats. I said grandpa how do you know. He said its easy son the republicans don't have their eyes open yet. If the overspending republican majority congress and senate of the past 7 years hasn't opened your eyes yet, then I guess badgering is your best way to vent your frustration with this mess.
My grandfather said that if we are not careful, we will end up with a fascist dictator in office disguised as a hero. He said that in 1969, amazing how times have changed?

The democrats have little to brag about also. They have overspent way to much in the past. But you know I have seen time and time again here about entitlements. Let me ask you a question. Would you rather see entitlements to the American people causing and impact of 10 trillion dollars or would you rather spend that money to rebuild a country we had no reason to invade to begin with. I for one would rather see the money spent in this country regardless. I believe electing another Republican equals more of the same. I am for change if Democrats will bring that then they will get my vote.
The democrats are the same as the republicans, you can put them all in a bag, shake the bag and dump them out and they will all look the same. What the country needs is simply to pull their power away, taxes are the right start but not a flat tax or anything with deductions – get rid of the control and get rid of the power.

I would want to see an end of entitlements completely. No need to give something to create a class of citizen that does nothing for society but to draw it down. Sure there are times when people need help, when people need a boast up but it used to be that it all came from the community when a community was important. The great society destroyed the true America, it created a sub-class of people who will be forever dependent on some sort of aid and the politicians like it that way. A way to eliminate this sub-class of people is simply allow prosperity to happen, again the tax system we have punishes prosperity so let’s change it.

Expanding of Social Security also is a big problem and I have said this before, I would love to see the end of the system as it is today – cutting people off at my age is the start we need and letting the system wind down to nothing in 60 years or so. Social Security is the real problem with our national Debt, not the war. Remember Social Security was not intended as a single means of support and it should never be. The funny thing is, social security was also never a national pension system, it was a supplemental system for people, and not even a safety net. All that came later.

As for Iraq, well we are there and we need to be strong as a nation and stop the crying about invading a country for no reason. In all actuality we had more than one reason to invade Iraq, and the policy that Bush followed was of the UN and Clinton, but no one seems to blame them. By the way, I think it is more of a tragedy that we bombed Serbia than Iraq.
 

Robsdad

Seasoned Expediter
Some great points derived from my rant. But I am still inclined to believe that I and many Americans would be much better off if the 10 trillion dollar debt was spent to send all illegals home to their respective countries. Build a fence both on the Mexican and Canadian border. Increase the border patrol numbers and let them do their job. I would feel much more safe in this country vs. fighting a GW cover my dad's a## war that is taking the lives of many young people in this country. I cannot help the way I feel nor am I apologizing for it. I love this country and the misguided Bush years have me disgusted to the point of ranting. It is not a Democrat or Republican thing. It is the political system in a nut shell. No one listens to the people that pay the taxes to pay their salaries and perks. Only the special interests. I rant on the Republicans because they cater to Big Business. I see time and again on here how some support corporate America tax cuts. You have to be kidding me, the profits most of these guys are making. The tax cuts must be to allow extra money for political perks. How else could someone but stupid enough to buy into a tax cut for millionaires. Spend the money at home and get out of Iraq and Afghanistan. That's my story and I'm stickin to it.
Thank you for you undivided attention.
And thanks again Greg for you lengthy explanation of a country boys thinking insuring along the way no republican feathers were ruffled by pointing out Democrat mistakes along the way.
 

Jack_Berry

Moderator Emeritus
i would have supported barack over hillary BUT barack supports giving drivers licenses to illeagal aliens. that i cannot support. romney cannot bring back jobs to michigan or the usa no matter what his speech and results were in michigan. that leaves mccain and ron paul.

Quote:
My granddad once told me when we were looking at a litter of 6 puppies, he pointed out that the 3 over there are republicans and the 3 over there are democrats. I said grandpa how do you know. He said its easy son the republicans don't have their eyes open yet. If the overspending republican majority congress and senate of the past 7 years hasn't opened your eyes yet, then I guess badgering is your best way to vent your frustration with this mess.

My grandfather said that if we are not careful, we will end up with a fascist dictator in office disguised as a hero. He said that in 1969, amazing how times have changed

heard on dale sommers yesterday about a bill put into action that was signed by george bush sr. in 88 or 89. the law states that if there is an interruption of the election process, say an al quida attack, then the president can send all the law makers home and establish a state of emergency, and be in control unchecked for 5 years. add this to the emergency powers act after 9/11 and you get...........
 
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Robsdad

Seasoned Expediter
I would rather see Ron Paul. He is my only hope in this mess. But the party says its Mcpains time. You think we are in a mess now. Wait till the war machine gets in, if he does. The only hope would be the congress and senate learned from their last vote on war to do more investigation prior to voting.
 

Jack_Berry

Moderator Emeritus
the answer to congress in general is to vote in new people. maybe fresh blood needs to have a chance. it is congress that passes the bills by and large. the prez is only the countries figure head. he can talk a lot about what he wants but it takes the 600 people in congress to pass legislation.
 

Jayman

Expert Expediter
I would rather see Ron Paul. He is my only hope in this mess.
Ron Paul is one of those guys who is an asset to our congress. However, he is not a leader. I could tell by listening to him that he had a good understanding of money and the economy. However, there is more to being a President than that.

As far as the misguided Bush years...lol there is a lot that can be said there. First off, I would not have had another man in the white house during 9/11. He and the rest of America was dealt a serious blow. This came 9 months after he took office and he handled that trauma superbly! Unfortunately, we know George W as a war President because of world events and those who hate us. Not his personal decisions, contrary to what some may think. During a time of crisis, I would much rather have a determined man with a backbone in office than weaker sort.

Now, there will be some who will contend that Bush made a mess of things. I dont think so. Sure, everything didnt always go as planned. But, when does it ever? If YOU was in his spot...would you really be that much better? Not by a long shot!

Oh yeah, lets not forget about them so called "glory days" when Clinton was in office. 8 years filled with Travel Gate, Vince Foster, White Water, and Monica Lewinsky. (I did not have sexual relations with that woman) lol Oh yeah, lets not forget about all the terrorist attacks that took place during those years. Like the first World Trade Center bombing, the USS Cole, and others. Which went uncontested, for the most part. Clinton also cut funding for intelligence agencies such as the CIA and the NSA. Which all combined contributed to the success of those who attacked us on 9/11. A REAL mess Bush has had to clean up...
 
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LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
There are problems in your thesis. First, deplorable that it is for so many troops to have been killed, their number is still far less than the number of innocents killed on 9/11 and much farther less than all those killed in terror attacks during Clinton's watch. One needs to remember that Bush didn't pull all this out of his hat. All but a handful of the 535 electeds as well as many of the world's other nations interpreted the intelligence reports the same way and chose to fight.

Please stop drinking the corporate/wealthy tax cuts koolaid. That horrible Exxon Mobil and their profits. Scandalous! How dare those shareholders make that profit divided across 8,019 million shares of stock outstanding?! Corporations, other than the very small minority of privately held corporations, are people just like us.

The "rich" pay far more taxes than anyone else, even after reductions in the excessive tax rate. Nobody is entitled to a penny of that money other than the one who earned it. Just because someone is capable of earning more doesn't mean there's any justification for taking away more. It's time to eliminate words and phrases like entitlement and affirmative action. Perhaps then we can eliminate the notion of confiscation.
 

Jayman

Expert Expediter
The "rich" pay far more taxes than anyone else, even after reductions in the excessive tax rate. Nobody is entitled to a penny of that money other than the one who earned it. Just because someone is capable of earning more doesn't mean there's any justification for taking away more. It's time to eliminate words and phrases like entitlement and affirmative action. Perhaps then we can eliminate the notion of confiscation.
Good points! We as a people are not entitled to anything, unless we actually earn it. I do believe on the other hand oil companies could do more to keep fuel prices lower though. (even though I am a George W man) lol They are certainly entitled to the profit they make. But, I dont see a justification for such high prices if they are showing record profits.

On another note...I heard Hillary say something recently on CNN. She was doing her rant about universal health care. She made the statement that if somebody went to the emergency room and couldnt afford it...they would be taken care of. But, there would be a hidden tax or higher cost for the rest of us. I wonder how she intends on paying for this universal health care without a hidden tax or higher cost for those who could afford health care to begin with?
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I agree that fuel prices could be lower. My main point/complaint is the left erroneously attributing humanity to corporations rather than acknowledging that the profits are equity and equity is the shareholders.
 

Robsdad

Seasoned Expediter
Opinions: We all have them. But Bush doing a good job as president. Get a life. If the proper investigations were carried out for all the underhanded hoopla his administration has done during his presidency we would probably have to call it Capitalistic Cover Up. He has tried to run this country as dictator and would if congress didn't pull back on the reins. Beyond any doubt the worst president of my lifetime. And the bad part I voted for him the second round. God please forgive me.
And please send him back to Texas I'm sorry Mexas as soon as possible. And no he does not deserve a library. From the Left or the Right the truth hurts don't it.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Just about as painful as the truth that many women are rape victims thanks to our last guy or that people are dead thanks to our last guy or any number of the other equally bad things attributable to him and his administration. The only difference is where one's base loyalty rests. Equals in reality but not in perception due to the inherent bias for one side or the other.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Opinions: We all have them. But Bush doing a good job as president. Get a life. If the proper investigations were carried out for all the underhanded hoopla his administration has done during his presidency we would probably have to call it Capitalistic Cover Up. He has tried to run this country as dictator and would if congress didn't pull back on the reins. Beyond any doubt the worst president of my lifetime. And the bad part I voted for him the second round. God please forgive me.
And please send him back to Texas I'm sorry Mexas as soon as possible. And no he does not deserve a library. From the Left or the Right the truth hurts don't it.

robsdad,
I say that Bush is nothing near a dictator, please go get The Forgotten Man: A New History of the Great Depression and read it a couple times. No where has Bush approached FDR in his attempt to become dictator nor could he because of the work done to undermine FDR's attempts to make him king. When you read how destructive FDR's cabinet and policies were to the country and how this set a course that has been ended up here with our debt and entitlement programs, you may see things a little different.

Out side of a 300 foot wide ditch going the length of the southern border, I honestly see that the only way to solve the invasion problem is returning to the pre-1964 immigration policy that the democrats gave us.

Bush did far less than Carter has done, look at Carter and the policies that gave us nothing but misery. He is the worst president, the worst American and by far someone who actually gave us Islamic terrorism instead of acting inept.

But after reading all the posts since mine, I think some are getting the message.
 

dcalien

Seasoned Expediter
Too make a long story short...I will probably end up voting against somebody this time versus voting for a chosen candidate. :(

I usually vote for the person I think least likely to hurt our country. So I guess I usually vote against rather than for.
 

Robsdad

Seasoned Expediter
LDB, I respect your opinion. I however choose to side with the near 70% of American people that are very displeased with this president and his administration. I was not born with a golden spoon in my mouth so having a lot of money I know nothing about. However I am somewhat familiar with business. The write offs and deductions one gets in business if planned properly will = no taxes paid. However, a normal working person with no business pays much more than their token return check they get at the end of the year. That is my problem with it. Some make millions and pay nothing. A person making say 70K a year married no children will pay in about 10 to 12k. Cannot claim interest on home or car with very few deductions allowed now will get a check for about 2500. Yippee.
If you make over 300k you will with the right preparer owe nothing and have paid nothing. Oh crap how did that happen. Oh my god I pity these poor rich soles. Get a life. I pity no one that does not have to share the load.
I have read here and you are a true right winger. You see no wrong with your party. But find all the bad things to put down any other. That's fine but acknowledge the truth that GW did what any red blooded American would have done during the 9/11 crisis. But according to Rudy he drove the ship to port. GW had to get back to the White House and dream up a tale to fool everyone into believing weapons of mass destruction. A sling shot and a rock don't qualify, sorry. We all bought into the Runsfeld/Chaney charade believing out president, when it all boiled down we discovered we were lied to. Now we are stuck much like Viet Nam. No easy way out have to look like the whipped dog, tuck you tail and go home. There is no winning this thing. GW, worthy of all the blame or not was the president. The buck stops there. Sorry it had to be your party but it is what it is.
Have a great day and I do respect your opinion.
 
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