Defending Liberty over There

RichM

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
The following Editorial appeared in the Waco TX newspaper this past Monday. I think it is very appro to what faces our country for the future.

In the 1930's the United States was isolationist. Most Americans wanted nothing to do with foreign wars.

This changed on December 7, 1941 when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. Shortly thereafter the US declared war on Japan and Germany. But why Germany,it had not attacked America. It was seeking to subjugate a continent.

Our Allies were few,England,Scotland,Canada Austrailia and Russia. The balance of Europe was under Germany's control. Both Germany and Japan were developing plans to invade the United States through Canada and Mexico. But Germany needed to defeat Russia and Japan had to control the far east. The decision to decalare war on Germany was a dicey one but if Russia had surrended Hitler could then focus his entire war effort agains Britain and America.

Now we are at another such moment.

Radical Muslims now have or will soon possess the much ridiculded weapons of mass destruction that probably were passed on when Hussein was defeated.

A broad war rages in the middle east. It is a war between reformists and forces of the inquistion.

Reformists are moderate Muslims who can live in peace with the West and produce a prosperous tolerant Middle East. The inquistion cosists of Wahhabis and Jehadis whp would mandate Sharia law and basic human rights would disappear. They would control OPEC and thus many Western and Asian economies.

It is DIFFICULT to understand why the average American does not grasp this. We seem to favor human rights,civil rights and liberty and freedom here but not for the Iraqis.

Peace Activists will demonstrate here in America where it's safe but not in Iran,Syria,Iraq.Sudan North Korea in the places that need it the most becuse if they demonstrate there they would be killed.

Amerians favor human and civil rights etc. But if the Jihad wins it is the end of these rights. Those who oppose the liberation of Iraq are coming down on the side of their own worst enemy.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Rich,

Germany declared war on the US.

The German high command was not prepared for Hitler to declare war on the US because they knew it would be the end for them in the long run and Japan didn't expect it.

Admiral Yamamoto, who planned the attack based on a book from the 1920's, was upset that Admiral Nagumo did not seek out and destroy the air craft carriers that were not at Pearl Harbor. He, Admiral Yamamoto made a couple comments to the effect that the people of the US will not allow this to pass they will avenge any sneak attack with all the resolve they have. Seeing he sturdies at Harvard, it seems that he had a little insight in what we could be capable of doing.

By the way, Saudi is moving to counter Wahhabis by training 2000 immams
 

arkjarhead

Veteran Expediter
Alot of people think if we leave the Middle East then the fighting just stops. No offense to anyone, but this isn't the Viet Cong who were trying to run Americans away. Al Queda will bring the fight to us if we leave. I heard a talk show host on the radio in New Orleans ask a caller one day if he would rather have the fight in Baghdad or Baton Rouge? All the sudden the caller was speachless. They have proven they will come here. What makes you think they won't do it again. I have a feeling there are battalion sized units of Al Queda in the US already waiting for the call to start the war here. Call me crazy if you wish that's just how I feel.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
so far there's one promise this President hasn't broken... we've never been attacked up till this day.... He's had to do a lot of unpopular things.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
so far there's one promise this President hasn't broken... we've never been attacked up till this day.... He's had to do a lot of unpopular things.

OVM,

Which president hasn't done unpopular things to keep the country safe?

I think of you really look at Wilson and FDR and try to put that into the context of todays attitude, we would have lost both wars without firing a shot.
 

arkjarhead

Veteran Expediter
Anything that sends American G.I.s home in bodybags isn't going to be seen as a good thing. The difference between now and WW 1 and 2 is then the public supported the troops. Alot of people say they support the troops, but how many actually do? I bet the enemy gets a kick out of s sitting over hear fighting with each other.
 

Robsdad

Seasoned Expediter
All Americans support our troops. All Americans would have supported going into Afghanistan and finding Bin Laden. What the most of Americans do not support is the lies behind the invasion of Iraq. LIES. You and I know how we feel about our so called friends that tell lies that put us in a situation. You never really trust them again. This is what it has come to with a lot of Americans. We support our troops. We know that they had no choice of where they are sent. Do they all believe what they are doing is right? I am sure a good percentage do. The service has a way of bringing the gung ho out of you. Ontario the part about we have not been attacked since the war begin, you and I know it will be very hard to attack this country for a while, because we are on our toes. There however will come a time we will get complacent and bang. With all the crazy's this world has to offer and our failure to close the borders we will be attack again. It is just a matter of time. If we would quit medaling in everyone else's business(wanting their oil!) and tend to our own we would probably be more safe than we are now. Turn the United Nations into an indoor track complex and send all the America haters back home to their respective crappers. I am all about America. I could really give a big crap about any other country. Canada and Mexico included. Take care of your own. Spend the war money at home, where it will do some good. Towel heads have always fought wars between themselves and they will until the end of time. Us being over there will not change this. Liberty in that region will not happen. We reduced troop numbers in Afghan and look where it is headed. Tribal leaders rule 75% of the country. That is the way it will be as soon as we leave Iraq. These people were born into this, it is in their blood. The tribal leaders are salivating right now. Soon as we leave they will claim their land back and then same o same o. Lies in white house have got us were we are. If McCain is elected lies will continue and Iran will be next. Count on it.:cool:
 

RichM

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Yes they have been fighting for many years but there is much more at stake these days then there was 50-100 years ago. I am surprised that a liberal, as you appear to be would call a different religious group by a derogatory name.
 

Robsdad

Seasoned Expediter
The only thing at stake is OIL. Am I a liberal. To tell you the truth right now I don't know what I am. The liberals if I were hedging my bet would be the better choice. Will they go up there and make as big a mess as GW? No Doubt, although they would have to go some to out do the present administration. We are in a pretty big mess at this time. And I don't see it changing prior to the election, if then. Will I vote republican this time? NO. Will I vote democrat this time. I don't know. Do I feel the same way as my above post. One thing you can take to the bank, I am not a liar. I support the troops, I do not support the war. I believe it was wrong when they invaded that country and I still believe it is wrong today. If you believe in the war there, then I respect your opinion.
 

hdxpedx

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
Had the world taken notice when the Russians pulled out of Afghanakickassatan that the evil "JIHAD" was like IRAN today, you'll have at least 3,000 more disagreements with your comments!! Hamas is Iran!! IRAN FUNDS ALL IN IRAQ!!YOUR liberal press INSTRUCTED the JIHAD how defeat AMERICA-4,000 dead (SALUTE)-and screams out both sides of their mouth..!! REV.WRIGHT-CODE PINK- never attacking the NAZI in IRAN for ALL THE KOAS!!
 

Robsdad

Seasoned Expediter
My liberal press? Sorry, I watch all of them. If the ones I watch are liberal, then fox must be the most bias right wing bunch of liars that can only be out done by the lying Republican White House. If you honestly believe all that crap on Fox you are blinded by the light. Of course that is why there are two parties. This is the most active I have ever been in any election. After hanging around this (the right wing blog) I see why I am so active. Some of the right wing comments I have read on here make me even more determined to vote Democrat. On here I choose to walk a different line for only one reason. Right wing lying, cheating politicians running under the banner of religion (in which most know nothing about until election time when they run out and stump in the bible belt) to fool rural America. Then we all wake up and realize that you, as a party are no different than anyone else. It is all about political gain. I was all pumped up about GW he was going to stop abortion. He has done nothing (even with the majority in both houses) for most of his term to put a halt to murder. NO! He has been more interested in murdering our young men and women for the sake of oil. 4000 as of this morning(plus many American civilians and others) Like it or not. That's the way it is. We had no business there and you will see just as Afghanistan put Russia in financial ruin in Iraq we are heading in the same direction. With nothing whatsoever accomplished. All we have done is blow up a country, now we will rebuild it, better than the mud huts that were there at taxpayers expense. CONSERVATISM:confused:, Sorry, I don't think so. You want to preach it but you slant it the way you want to in the name of terrorism. These people would not spit in your mouth if your stomach were on fire. It is time to play hardball. Get the troops out and let the people over there kill themselves (as they have since the beginning of time). I could care what they do. If they try and bring it over here. Then I am all about doing whatever it takes. I am an old man but, I will do my part at the drop of a hat. I never will understand why the right cannot see, we invaded a country that had no weapons of mass destruction. We wanted their oil. Another thing our investigating failed to uncover is, THEY DO NOT WANT US THERE. It is that simple. I DON'T WANT THEM HERE. It is kind of a territory thing. Ours, Theirs. Let them have it and keep all of their kind over there. I respect your opinion, but I down right believe you are wrong. McCain has already laid the ground work for more of the same in this region with his recent visit. Don't worry, be happy I am sure was his comments to the folks over there. We have most of America believing this is for the good of all. Don't worry the old dumb taxpayer will vote us back in. We will scare them into it. SORRY JOHN. This BACKWOODS COUNTRY BOY ain't buying it. I would like to thank each and every right winger on here for helping make my decision.
I WILL VOTE DEMOCRAT IN NOVEMBER:cool:
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Robsdad,

I wasn’t going to post anything but I have to.

OK you support the troops, that’s good but you have to support their mission, like it or not. They depend on you to support them 100% even if you don’t like what they do - you can’t say “good job but it was not worth fighting for” because it cheapens their sacrifice. This goes for any solider in any war, regardless what they are fighting for.

Are we fighting for Oil?

Are we fighting to eliminate weapons that kill in mass?

I would like to think that we are actually doing both but here are three issues that you seem to leave out of your thoughts;

1 – regardless what the left, the UN or anyone else says, if some kid in a chemistry lab in some university can take castor beans and extract sarin, do you really think that a leader of a nation who already used sarin on people who opposed him can’t make a few tons of the stuff and hide it somewhere? You do know that it only takes one hundred milligrams of sarin to kill one person, imagine what a ton of it would do. Watch “sum of all fears” if you want an idea about domestic weapon delivery systems – sarin is odorless and hard to detect if packaged right.

2 – I hoped we were fighting for oil, but alas I am not sure that is the case. I think first off we are fulfilling a promise that was made to the Kurds and other freedom fighters after the first gulf war, a promise that we forgot. I think the second reason is that we wanted to fulfill the UN mandate and the president wanted to fulfill the US policy that was set in the Clinton years but never acted on. AND the why not fight for oil, what’s wrong with that? It is because we have become so dependent on oil that we can’t do anything but fight for it. Isn’t there a more worthy cause then to fight for our country and the stability of the country? Are you saying that if we fight for oil, it is un-American? Just an FYI, if we were fighting for the oil alone, we would not have insisted that they share the oil profits or that we would not have paid for contractors to go in and fix their system at the same time not seeing a drop of oil. Here is a puzzling thing to many Iraqis I know, they don’t understand why we just don’t take the oil as part of the payment that they owe us for getting rid of Saddam. Their way is to take the spoils of a conquest, not give it back to the people, except that one guy – Saladin.

3 – Hate to break this to you but the people actually want us there, the Saudis have not kicked us out and we indeed do add some stability to the region, it don’t matter what the UN or the left say – it is true. The other thing that you my have missed is that most of what is going is not all that bad. Sure there are 4000 deaths, death is always sad but look at what we have done, look at the work every soldier has accomplished. Is it is a waste? Hell no, to even think it is, cheapens the sacrifice. If you compare the past and use the technology of the past, we would have had 20 times the deaths doing the same thing. And to put it into context of other operations, the Normandy Landings we lost 3000 men in one day, battle of Leyte we lost 3500 men in three months of fighting, Okinawa we lost 12,500 men in three months of fighting. We are not really failing in Iraq like we failed in Europe or Korea or any other place we have been fighting. We surely failed in the Balkans, amazing we can bomb allies and everyone thinks things will work out. We failed as a country not to recognize part of our problem is our press, they are not for the country but to stir up hatred for a president.

Speaking of presidents, if you voted for a president based on abortion, well don’t complain. He can not do a thing about it. He can’t write an executive order or bar the Supreme Court from hearing any cases (which can be done). The only thing that he can do is appoint the judges who may or may not hear a case that will render an opposite verdict and reverse the past decision. AND I think he has done that so far.

My question to you is what makes you think that Obama or Hillary will better than McCain? I mean if you really look at these two, Obama will force us to a Vietnam style defeat and Hillary may be worst than McCain because she will not want failure on her watch, she may dump more troops into the situation just like LBJ did.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I don't see a problem with dumping more troops in Iraq....if we are going to fight lets fight and get the job done...and done right....this measured response crap...we went there to clean it up...why do half a job and twice as long....
 

Robsdad

Seasoned Expediter
Sorry Again Guys:
Old man Bush started it. Young Bush restarted it. Hamas or however you spell it was not in Iraq until we got there. Oil, Oil, Oil, Oil is the key word. I am with you Ont. if we are going to fight it . Then blow it up. But no, we will waste a lot more lives before this is over with. I do support our troops, they have no control over the mission they were sent to do. Does that make it right. Lord no. Anytime you invade a country it is not right. We had no business there. THEY DO NOT WANT US THERE. Sorry Greg I watched a piece from a college in Iraq. A politcal science class. Trust me Fox might show folks that want us there but all the other networks are not that bias. Some show it like the cat ate the rat. No cover up for GW. Democracy will never happen in that part of the world. Do you call Pakistan a democracy. There is no control over the voting. Who has the most military pull gets the vote. The guns prevail. This war is wrong. I am not marching the streets to protest it, but I sure will on this site. Well until the right wingers throw me off.:cool:
 

Robsdad

Seasoned Expediter
And Gregg:
We fought real wars in Europe and Korea. Things were not as politically correct as they are now. You say if Obama or Hillary will cut and run much like Viet Nam. What did we lose in Viet Nam. 100k troops. Do you want to stay there long enough to reach that number? Then will it be justifiable to get out? Sorry I don't choose to wait that long. The longer you keep them over there the more demonstrations and crap we are likely to see. Viet Nam was not a popular war. This one isn't either.
We can do it now, or we can elect McCain and 4 or 5000 more have to die before we elect someone with the guts to stand up and say it is wrong and bring them home. I do not believe in this war Greg. We have talked back and forth on this for some time. You have your way of thinking and I respect you and all the others for that. But I however feel strongly we need to end this thing. I am afraid what will happen before long they will come up with a way to launch something in there and kill mass numbers of american troops. If you think the call to bring them home is becoming louder now, just wait for something of that sort to happen. I had rather tuck tail and run cut my loses and go home. Not a chicken, just fighting for the oil companies is not what I call a noble cause.
 

Robsdad

Seasoned Expediter
I am sure I will do whatever you do Rich. I think if we could all quit using the stuff, the technology field would and could figure it out. I kinda like the George Jetson thing. LOL
 

RichM

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Actually I think the writing is on the wall for big oil. Neccesity is the mother of invention. Right now there are teams of physicists and scientists working on batteries that will propel your vehicle 500 miles and be recharged in 15 minutes.
 

Robsdad

Seasoned Expediter
Hope you right Rich. You would think in this country that has everything to offer, we would come up with something. I hate being held up by the oil companies. That is exactly what I feel like each time I fuel. I feel like I am being held up.
 
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