Company rules for driving hours...

rodeojunkie

Seasoned Expediter
"Why would it make me a "bad driver"? I have never had an at fault accident in any type of vehicle, commercial or personal. I just don't understand your logic."

Contrary to what you many believe, no matter how hard you believe it or how forcefully to adhere to it, there has not been one study, ever, that supports the claim that 4-5 hours of sleep per night on a regular basis lets someone be as alert, well rested and safe on the road, as someone who gets 8-9 hours of sleep on a regular basis. Not one study. There have even been studies done with people who make such claims about themselves, and in every single case they were shown to be fooling themselves. There are people who sleep about 4 hours a night, and then once a week they'll sleep most of one day away, recovering from chronic lack of sleep. These people, too, think they are perfectly fine each and every day on 4 hours sleep, and in every case their reaction times were sluggish as compared to those who get the proper amount of sleep. Just because you are used to getting 4-5 hours of sleep, doesn't mean that's all you need. Never having fallen asleep at the wheel doesn't mean you are not driving while fatigued, either. A lack of sleep, especially a chronic one, causes slower reaction times, vision impairment, lapses in judgment and delays in processing information, and even if these are only slight, they are still there and affect your driving. Of course, Super Truckers never experience any of these things, even though they are the very people who should be banging the door down at the sleep clinic.


It is interesting that you say this because i have seen many scientific programs that say that scientists still to this day cannot find a scientifically explainable reason why we need sleep. Like i said before...i would love to sleep 8-10 hours a night, its just that in my experience it does not happen. Does it increase reaction time as you stay awake longer...of course it does! Does it automatically reduce mine to a dangerous level? I don't think you can say that for sure. If that were the case we would all be mandated by the DOT to only drive during that 2-3 hour window when we are at our peak alertness...do we really want that? They are already talking about cutting driving hours down to 40 hours in a week. Will any of us be able to survive if we only are allowed to drive 40 hours a week?
Would you want to be limited to driving less than 6 hours a day? I think there would be a mass exodus in the straight truck expediting world if that happened. And where would these drivers go...to sprinter and cargo vans until they become regulated too.

As for being a bad driver, i would never presume to tell you that you are a bad driver because i have never been in a vehicle with you going down the road...just as you have never been in a vehicle with me so i guess we will just have to agree to disagree on that. The law of averages says that i have millions of mile without an at fault accident and i know that means i am closer than most to having an at fault accident. But that in itself does not make me a bad driver, just ask your insurance company. If they look at me with 4 million miles and no at fault accidents and see another driver with 3 or 4 at fault accidents over the same time frame who do you think will get the lower insurance rate?

I am in no way saying that i only want to take 1,000 mile runs every time but at the same time i could do it if needed. I have never missed a delivery time and have saved more than one dispatchers behind by being efficient and getting there earlier than they expected me to.

I think we are straying too far from the original meaning of the post...trying to find out which companies will let you take the freight all the way and which ones will make you hand it off.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
It is interesting that you say this because i have seen many scientific programs that say that scientists still to this day cannot find a scientifically explainable reason why we need sleep.
Awesome deflection, but it's irrelevant. The fact that there's no scientifically or biological explainable reason why need sleep, in no way negates the fact that we need it. And while many biologists disagree on the reasons for sleep, all of them agree on the problems that manifest themselves as a result of not getting enough.

Like i said before...i would love to sleep 8-10 hours a night, its just that in my experience it does not happen. Does it increase reaction time as you stay awake longer...of course it does! Does it automatically reduce mine to a dangerous level? I don't think you can say that for sure. If that were the case we would all be mandated by the DOT to only drive during that 2-3 hour window when we are at our peak alertness...do we really want that?
No, that wouldn't be the case. Another awesome, but meaningless deflection. Who said anything about only driving during peak alertness? There's peak alertness, and then there's acceptable alertness, and all you need to be alert enough to drive a vehicle and have the proper reaction times is to have acceptable alertness. If your alertness level and reaction times are less than acceptable, you shouldn't be driving a vehicle, and every study that has been done on the subject agrees that the less sleep people get, including those who say they get enough, the less alert they are and the slower their reaction times are.

They are already talking about cutting driving hours down to 40 hours in a week. Will any of us be able to survive if we only are allowed to drive 40 hours a week?
Almost certainly, yes. Rates will have to rise to meet the demand and to allow enough drivers to make a living driving a truck. If the rates didn't rise enough to compensate for less miles, then no one (or at least not nearly enough) would be able to afford to drive a truck, and thus the delivery of goods would grind to a halt.

The law of averages says that i have millions of mile without an at fault accident and i know that means i am closer than most to having an at fault accident. But that in itself does not make me a bad driver, just ask your insurance company.
Two things. One, no, it doesn't make you a bad driver, but then again never having an accident doesn't necessarily make you a good driver. Two, insurance companies set rates based on risk, risk of having to pay out money for a claim. They have their own definition of good and bad drivers, which is not necessarily the same as what we find on the road. Insurance companies have two primary criteria for what makes a driver a good driver, namely no tickets and no accidents (although age and other factors some into play, as well). You may be a "good driver" in the eyes of your insurance company, but that's as far as it goes. Trying to make a leap from that to something else is a classic logical fallacy. You may be a good driver in the eyes of your insurance company, but you may do all kinds of unsafe and dangerous things on the road, none of which are reflected in the discounted insurance rate.

For example, a typical Rainman with no tickets and no accidents loves to plop themselves in the middle lane of a 3-lane Interstate and drive at whatever speed suits them, without regard or consideration of the speed of traffic around them. They figure if someone wants to pass them, there are two perfectly good lanes with which to do it. Well, no there's not. Trucks are restricted from the far left lane, so they can't pass over there, and it's illegal in many places, and unsafe in all places, to pass on the right. But they're a good driver, lemme tell ya. Their insurance company says so.

So the, "I've never had an accident, therefore, I'm a good driver," thing may make you feel better about yourself, and no accidents is certainly worthy of that, but it is an illusory corollation, because one doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the other. An illusory correlation is the perception of a relationship between two variables when only a minor relationship, or absolutely no relationship at all, actually exists. People who pray a lot have a lot of experience with illusory correlations. :D

Fact is, you can be an excellent driver and still have had an accident or two.

If they look at me with 4 million miles and no at fault accidents and see another driver with 3 or 4 at fault accidents over the same time frame who do you think will get the lower insurance rate?
The woman.

I am in no way saying that i only want to take 1,000 mile runs every time but at the same time i could do it if needed. I have never missed a delivery time and have saved more than one dispatchers behind by being efficient and getting there earlier than they expected me to.
Three weeks ago I ran 2924 miles, including a 1074 mile run (and also a 50 mile run. yay). Two weeks ago I ran one load for 1174 and another for 988, and ended the week with 3039 miles. This past week I had just two loads, 773 and 350, and then I called it a day because my AC in the van went out last weekend and enough was enough. All those long loads I ran all the way, took my 5 hour break, and then kept rolling (except the 988 miles run, which I delivered an hour short of my 16 hours).

But I was also offered a load for 840 miles, but it had something like 180 miles deadhead to go get it. Three hours to go get it, plus loading time, equals not enough left of my 16 hours clock to run that one the whole way and not enough time to take a 5 hour break and still deliver it on time. So if I'd have taken that one, I'd have deadheaded 180 miles for somewhere in the neighborhood of 400 miles, because they like to swap then out half way (since it's hard to get someone to take the backend of a swap that only goes 150 miles). I turned that one down. That's where you have to know the rules and how to use them to your advantage.

I think we are straying too far from the original meaning of the post...trying to find out which companies will let you take the freight all the way and which ones will make you hand it off.
Straying too far is what we do best here. We do it because reading all this crap will do a newbie and a future newbie a much better service than will reading a laundry list of carriers who do and do not put limits on cargo vans. It's simply more information with which to make an informed decision about the kind of carrier they might want to go with, for whatever reasons they may have. This might be a question that they never thought of, and now it's one they might ask a recruiter, and they'll know why they are asking it.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
The courts and the jury don't give a crap....once they hear you were your 18th hour or whatever..you are a dead duck...they won't care about your fortitude nor your driving record...and won't matter if you were at fault really or not....you'll be at fault just by being on the road the jury will reason.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Well Turtle, you have it just a bit off there, maybe.

A jury will have people on it that think an hour drive each way to work is hard, so 8 hours will be something that they consider hard to believe anyone can do more than a few days at a time.

BUT anywho ...

There have been sleep studies going on by and for the military since the 30's and before that the efficiency experts have studied the effects of sleep deprivation on workers since 1910. Although there are no "scientific" agreement about why we need sleep, as Turtle pointed out there is an agreement we need sleep.

Take a sleep deprivation course and see how you handle 72 hours of being awake. It isn't like sitting in a van or truck trying to stay awake, they put you through hell to see how you break down and then teach you how to manage sleep under stress, not how to avoid falling asleep. Some of these courses are a week long (that is 120 hours are many of the courses but some are 180 hours).

Even at 4 hours sleep people tend to have issues that do include hallucinations and other overstimulated sensory perception, even been tired and think you saw something but wasn't sure?

I think it is Freightdawg who make a living at flying, he can explain to some of you about situational awareness and sensory overload - it should be part of the training he has taken. These two things suffer in opposing ways, you lose situational awareness while you are more apt to have senosry overload when you become fatigue.

The real issue comes down to the fact that the insurance industry, the DOT and other organizations threw out the idea that we are individuals and have applied across the board policies and regulations. IT IS d*mn impossible to judge an individual on their driving record alone, let alone have an uneducated dispatcher actually know how to judge a person 600 miles away in a 4 minute conversion.

BUT to answer the OP's question, the only carrier that will hire you to run as you see fit is the one you start.
 
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