Biofuel

[arkjarhead]

I was talking to my little brother this weekend and he was telling me his ffa at school is making biofuel in the shop. for those of you who don't know ffa is future farmers of america. anyway they get used cooking oil from local resteraunts clean it and mix it with a certain % of methanol. I'm not clear on how the whole process works but it takes about 24 hours to make 40 gallons. the school uses it to put in thier old ford tractor that they use in keeping up the school grounds. they say the tractor has never run better than what it does on the homemade biofuel. it costs them 99 cents a gallon to produce this stuff. so far they are the only ffa chapter in the country to be making it and they are getting a trip to the national conference in Indy to debut thier process. just thought it was pretty interesting and thought i'd pass it along. plus think about it one teacher and a few high school students put something like this together on a small scale what is holding back all of this engineers and "educated" people who are supposedly working to make more biofuel a reality?

 

[Dreamer]

Stacey David showed how to make it on 'Trucks' (Spike TV) a while back. You really can make it yourself with a relativly simple kit he bought. Takes some time, but hey, money is money. The time consuming part is going a getting the drums of used oil from restaurants. The filtering didn't take too long.

We supposedly have a Biodiesel factory coming to our county within the next year. They've been in negotiations with City Council over tax breaks etc.



Dreamer
Forums Administrator


"Ability can take you to the top, but it takes Character to keep you there."

- Zig Ziglar

 

[greg334]

There are two ways to do this, one is the right way like arkjarhead mentioned and the heat and filter method - which is the wrong way.

I looked at some of the kits out there and got to say I should be building a few after all the stuff I processed before this was a fad. I have asked my local establishments for their oil and they now want to sell it to me for $30 a barrel. Even though that is not a bad price, the idea that they are charging and have a limited tank capacity to hold the WVO puts them in a bit of a problem because they will be charged $45 to empty the tank.

What I am afraid will happen is they will figure out how to tax this stuff and the $1 advantage will vanish.

Thanks arkjarhead for the reminder, I got to finish my bio-diesel book one day. Oh I wish them luck in their national conference.

Something else to add to this, there is too much ado about nothing when it comes to growing crops to use for fuel here in the states. There was a lot of research done in the 80's on this and some companies overseas have used our research and building plants to process a form of plant to use for fuel, algae. I read where they are getting 5000 gallons per acre of harvested algae where corn (the popular choice) yields 18 gallons. I know when I tried soy beans it really didn't give a lot, I think 25 gallons but that was from 2 acres of soy I had planted. Maybe I should have made tofu with it.

 

[rollnthunder]

Well if you want to get technical i was told you can only produce so much then after that you are suppose to pay a alternative fuel tax to the gov.But what they dont know dont hurt them.Also road tax to the state.I found a article where the guy got fined $1000 from the state and is facing a fine from the feds he lives in for not paying road tax on is vegetable oil fuel....


http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2007/06/a_price_to_pay_for_altern.html

 

[greg334]

Well it takes only one person up in Lansing to see the advantages of capturing the fuel tax plus $.50 for each gallon processed. Kinda sad when you think about it, the people who make the money off of it are the guys who sell the equipment to produce the stuff. Like the guy who claims he is sold out of his processing system that he sells for $5000 each - claims he has sold 250 units and it don't look like anything is custom for the unit, maybe $250 worth the parts and stickers.

 

[arkjarhead]

one thing i forgot is after they filter it and clean it and everything they put it in the 40 gallon barrel and use a shop vac to suck the air out. he says there is a bottom layer of stuff that is similar to soap. they got a tax exempt status because they are doing research.
if you think about if a plant is built on a larger scale where they can make more than 40 gallons a day the price cost per gallon should go down right?

 

[greg334]

>one thing i forgot is after they filter it and clean it and
>everything they put it in the 40 gallon barrel and use a
>shop vac to suck the air out. he says there is a bottom
>layer of stuff that is similar to soap.

Yep it is the ingredient used in soap, glycerin but not the best stuff to use when you get it from waste oil. It needs to be pressed filtered and refined to be used as soap. Thanks to this post, I am trying to find the info needed for this process - maybe reviving my soap making?

>they got a tax
>exempt status because they are doing research.

The tax exemption is only good for certain things, but that brings up a good point, the people should get congress to put a hold on all taxes for homemade fuel of any type.


>if you think about if a plant is built on a larger scale
>where they can make more than 40 gallons a day the price
>cost per gallon should go down right?

Yes the cost will go down when they buy the stuff in quantity but there are alternatives and some things are recoverable.

 

[Jack_Berry]

aj.....did they mention that bio d has less power than diesel fuel? really, a gal of dino is 131,000 btu. a gal of bio d is 121,000 btu. engines run much better, smoother the fuel lines clean themselves with the menthol solvent running thry the system. but the mpg goes down also.

i collected waste veg oil for a couple years and a buddy processed it in an electric hot water tank(www.veggieavenfer.com and www.localb100.com and www.journeytoforever.com). he had lots of glycerin he burned in fires and gave away to soap makers. you get one gal of glycerin for each gal of methanol you use.

now i just buy astm quality from a milwaukee coop(for about 3.25/gal and blend with diesel) and somethimes from the citgo station on hwy 41 in wadsworth illinois but they have raised thier bio d price equal to the citgo diesel so no more discount.

biodiesel, growing a new fuel economy by greg pahl-available at barnes and noble. makes good reading.


Jack Berry

 

[rollnthunder]

I really havent noticed a decrease in mpg in my superduyt truck.I have been running biodiesel for about 2 years now.Also as for the price coming down as more plants get built yeh i would love to see that.But its not happening.We have 2 plants with in 14 miles of us and biodiesel at best is only 2-3 cents a gallon cheaper.Heck the one plant is right across the street from the station that sells it.

 

[Crazynuff]

Just be aware that engine manufacturers recommend a maximum of 5% biodiesel . I wrote directly to Cummins regarding this . The Cummins website says they are now considering raising that to 20% .

 

[arkjarhead]

is there any kind of biofuel one can make in there shed to put in a stock gasoline motor?

 

[greg334]

Yea, Moonshine - works good in any engine and is the drink of choice for many southerners.

 

[arkjarhead]

oh you're talking about that good ole mt dew. that snake bite medicine. which is pretty much what ethanol is. i think.

 

[greg334]

Well, yea!

I have one jar left out of my uncles last batch and one freshly 'aged' jar that was given to me last week - I think it is now 90 days old, maybe past it's prime?

When I married my wife, I told my new wife that we are going visiting and she is not to refuse the stuff offered to her - it is an insult to do so. Some of the stuff was in the jar (when we were in KY visiting) which she made all kinds of faces when she had a 'small' shot of it and Slivovitz, which she threaten to divorce me after one shot of that if I ask her to try anything else. The Slivovitz can be worst to drink if it is the cheap stuff.

Oh by the way, many liquors are usable in cars today.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Amazing they can come running after you for taxes after YOU made the stuff. Next, they'll be knocking on my door for taxes when I grow tobacco and roll my own smokes. Makes me wonder how they're gonna tax someone who builds an engine that runs on water. I can see some kind of road tax. But fuel tax? Come on! Gonna charge me when I take a shower too?

-True independence can only be gained if you're trully independant.

 

[redytrk]

Bio at the Petro (Rochelle,Il)

 

[highway star]

At the J in South Beloit, diesel is 3.05. I know Petro's are usually a little more, but the one in Rochelle is ridiculous.

 

[Jack_Berry]

gasoline made at home is not endorsed anywhere i have read. this is due to the volitility. combustion point of gas is lower than either diesel or biodiesel. gas will flash at -45F! just try that with diesel. fyi the diesel flashpoint is 70F and bio d is 150F. if the engine will run on mash drippings go for it but don't try to get a dealer warrenty claim when it ventilates.



Jack Berry

 

[arkjarhead]

i heard a myth about a guy in nearby england,ar who invented a car that ran off of water and a f.b.i. sniper shot him in the head in his backyard afterward. not saying i belive it but that's what's i heard.

 

[greg334]

Jack,

We are not talking about gasoline, but alcohol. It is really easy to make and can be used in a lot of vehicles.

Many have been making it for years but you have to have a federal permit to do so since the repeal of the 18th amendment.

One thing I think is an absolute scam are companies like GM and Ford claiming that they now offer e85 equipped cars and all the special equipment needed to do so is all new technology. What a scam, they have been doing this for years (my 9 year old caravan is e85 equipped) and the buying public and the government is too stupid to demand this on every vehicle made for the US market. The cost is so small to do this but they charge a lot for the option to use e85.