Are diesel CVs really worth it?

[DRIVERDUDE]

Are diesel CVs really worth the added expense? They cost more to purchase, I think the repairs and maintenance is more expensive and the fuel costs more. I had a Ford E-350 6.0 liter that took 15 quarts of oil and a $30.00 paper oil filter and the fuel filter was $94.00 if I did the labor myself. The fuel was about 40-50 cents more per gallon at the time. Gas burners are cheaper to maintain, the fuel costs are lower, and now the MPGs are not that much different. I have a Ford gas burner that's pushing 400K and it's running great. I, for one, will never own another diesel CV. I would like to hear others opinions about this.

 

[asjssl]

Nope...even the added small mpg gain does not make it worth it....you know what is the difference between the 2 now day's. ..spark plugs..my last plugs n wires went 250,000 miles...

 

[aristotle]

No, in hindsight I think I would prefer gas engine to diesel powered CV's. I accumulated nearly 1.5 million miles on various Ford E-350's. These engines were unbelievably reliable, but heavy. If I recall correctly, there was a 900 LB. weight disparity between the 7.3L diesel and an eight-cylinder gas engine available for E-350's. The initial purchase price of a diesel is higher. The maintenance and fuel costs are higher. I've read several accounts, here on EO, of gasoline powered CV's exceeding 500K miles. Knowing this, the gas engine seems more practical and attractive. Read Moot's account of his gas-powered van. It was an eye opener to me. Of course, Moot could probably squeeze 500K miles out of a Yugo.

 

[FlyingVan]

Different strokes for different folks.

For me, I will never own anything less than a diesel. Yes, it is true that initial cost is higher, diesel costs more per gallon and maintenance is a bit more than on a gasser (the maintenance is still debatable, when you think about the twin turbo on the ecoboost.) However, in the long run, for our kind of work, because of the higher mpg you end up spending less for a diesel (I'm talking of the new(er) european style diesels, not the big, old V8 powerstrokes, or duramaxes.) Then you have that low rpm torque that is just not available on a small gasser, and the lack of downshifting at even the sight of a hill. Heck, even a strong headwind on a straight road will trigger a downshift on some of the newer small gassers.

When Ford introduced the new Transits, they had a spreadsheet around where you plugged in some numbers and it would spit out the operation costs for their different kinds of engines. If I remember correctly, for a transit driven 100k a year, you would save $355 a MONTH in fuel costs with the diesel compared to the gas version. Think about it, that is $4260 saved the first year of ownership. In other words, in the first year you saved back the money that you paid extra for the diesel engine. And the savings keep coming.

 

[guido4475]

Different strokes for different folks.

For me, I will never own anything less than a diesel. Yes, it is true that initial cost is higher, diesel costs more per gallon and maintenance is a bit more than on a gasser (the maintenance is still debatable, when you think about the twin turbo on the ecoboost.) However, in the long run, for our kind of work, because of the higher mpg you end up spending less for a diesel (I talking of the new(er) european style diesels, not the big, old V8 powerstrokes, or duramaxes.) Then you have that low rpm torque that is just not available on a small gasser, and the lack of downshifting at even the sight of a hill. Heck, even a strong headwind on a straight road will trigger a downshift on some of the newer small gassers.

When Ford introduced the new Transits, they had a spreadsheet around where you plugged in some numbers and it would spit out the operation costs for their different kinds of engines. If I remember correctly, for a transit driven 100k a year, you would save $355 a MONTH in fuel costs with the diesel compared to the gas version. Think about it, that is $4260 saved the first year of ownership. In other words, in the first year you saved back the money that you paid extra for the diesel engine. And the savings keep coming.

$355.00 a month times lets say 54 months..which comes out to $19,170 .. that's quite a but of savings there..but....lol...how much more does it cost for the diesel option? The difference between gas and diesel? Oil changes? Filters? DEF fluid? To name a few....just curious wondering...

 

[LDB]

Diesel is higher price to buy in, higher price fuel, higher price maintenance and higher weight. Diesel is longer service intervals and better fuel mpg which offsets at least some of the higher price. Gasoline is the opposite. To me, perhaps the biggest negative factor is the higher weight. That means more work on the drivetrain to get it moving and keep it moving. More work on the brakes to slow or stop it. Lower cargo weight capability. When (since eventually you will) you need work you have to find somewhere that can work on diesel, not nearly as common as places that work on gasoline.

When I had my Chev G3500 I decided nothing over 2500 pounds. I could legally carry up to 2937 pounds based on my door plaque and scale ticket but chose to set a 2500 limit. I would do the same again although in a Transit or whatever the numbers would likely be different.

If I were buying today I would probably go gasoline. I'd have to get all the specs and compare the two but unless the specs were very surprising I'd go gasoline.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

And the FACT .... FSC is calculated on the higher priced diesel.... Gas CV 's should be rolling in $$$$$

 

[Treadmill]

And the FACT .... FSC is calculated on the higher priced diesel.... Gas CV 's should be rolling in $$$$$

I used to roll in the bucks when I worked for a company that paid the national weekly diesel rate on every load. Cha-Ching. It paid for all of my fuel for the load plus some left over, while the rest of the load was usually sent home to pay bills and pad savings account.

 

[mjmsprt40]

Parts availability and mechanics (when you need one) who can fix the thing. My Chevy gasser may be a "slop bucket" as some of you say, but I can get parts for it and I can find a mechanic, even in Hoot N Holler, who can fix it. My experience with a European diesel left something to be desired in that department.

Not sure about an American diesel. Parts might not be that hard to get, and most truck mechanics can figure their way around a Cummins without too much trouble.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Parts availability and mechanics (when you need one) who can fix the thing. My Chevy gasser may be a "slop bucket" as some of you say, but I can get parts for it and I can find a mechanic, even in Hoot N Holler, who can fix it. My experience with a European diesel left something to be desired in that department.

Not sure about an American diesel. Parts might not be that hard to get, and most truck mechanics can figure their way around a Cummins without too much trouble.

correction: North American slop bucket...sir.........LOL

 

[Moot]

....you know what is the difference between the 2 now day's. ..spark plugs..my last plugs n wires went 250,000 miles...

I change out my plugs and wires every 100,000 miles. I think the major difference between small diesel engines and gasoline engines is complexity. At one time diesels were simple. A mechanical pump supplied pressurized fuel to the injectors. Fuel was sprayed into the cylinders, compressed and bang, power to the wheels. That might be an over simplification but diesels are much more complex than they were 15 years ago. With all the sensors, computer monitoring and emissions stuff diesels are as complex or more so than gas engines and seem less reliable.

 

[Moot]

I've read several accounts, here on EO, of gasoline powered CV's exceeding 500K miles.

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[/QUOTE]

 

[Moot]

Different strokes for different folks.

Not really. Diesel or gas, I think we all agree on 4 strokes. Unless you're talking the old Detroits.

When Ford introduced the new Transits, they had a spreadsheet around where you plugged in some numbers and it would spit out the operation costs for their different kinds of engines. If I remember correctly, for a transit driven 100k a year, you would save $355 a MONTH in fuel costs with the diesel compared to the gas version.

I saw that. I believe it was also posted on here. I'm a bit skeptical about those claims.

 

[Moot]

And the FACT .... FSC is calculated on the higher priced diesel.... Gas CV 's should be rolling in $$$$$

Exactly! I agree with Treadmill. I am on a structured fuel surcharge, but still am able to cover my loaded mile fuel costs with the FSC and still have a few cents/mile left over.

 

[guido4475]

And the FACT .... FSC is calculated on the higher priced diesel.... Gas CV 's should be rolling in $$$$$

Gotta admit, the OVM has a good, and often overlooked point. Especially if you are leased to a company who has the decency and respect to give the o/o 100% of the FSC to begin with.

 

[BillChaffey]

I have two of the older Ford Diesels, I'm fairly sure a fuel filter is around $35.00. $94.00 for a filter seems awfully high. My F 250 Super Duty has 325,000 miles on it. My mechanic calls it an antique. I didn't know pick up and Vans needed DPF.

 

[Treadmill]

I have two of the older Ford Diesels, I'm fairly sure a fuel filter is around $35.00. $94.00 for a filter seems awfully high. My F 250 Super Duty has 325,000 miles on it. My mechanic calls it an antique. I didn't know pick up and Vans needed DPF.

They use DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid). DPF is your diesel particulate filter.

 

[DRIVERDUDE]

My van was a 2005 and the only place you could buy a fuel filter at the time was at a dealer. Places like Auto Zone and Advance did not sell them and they are a pain in the *** to replace. The paper oil filter was about $30.00 at a parts store.

 

[DRIVERDUDE]

Looks like the results are in.......77% prefer gas burners over diesels in cargo vans.

 

[mjmsprt40]

Driverdude, you didn't say what brand of diesel you had but some of what you say sure sounds like the Sprinter. Nearly impossible to get parts for it except at the dealer-- and then only at dealers that sell and service Sprinters. Good luck getting anything other than tires and lightbulbs anywhere else.

Not sure if home-grown Fords and Chevrolets have the same problem-- I suspect that American diesels are somewhat easier to get parts for them.