Are Americans too Complacent?

ratwell71

Veteran Expediter
Are Americans Unready to Boil?
June 21st, 2007 by statusquobuster
Are Americans Unready to Boil?


Joel S. Hirschhorn


The frog-in-boiling water model helps us understand political upheavals: how citizens wake up early enough (or too late) to respond to social and economic oppression. Sometimes the greed and arrogance of Ruling Classes makes them careless and social waters heat too quickly. Sensing doom, alert citizen-frogs escape or revolt. Or they stay complacent and boil. The Bush Administration has turned the heat up on us, explaining why nearly 75 percent of Americans believe their country is on the wrong track and 70 percent think the economy is worsening.


Mexico is the richest Latin American country but has extreme economic inequality, which measures social temperature. Mexicans are jumping out of oppressive waters en masse, right into the U.S., exacerbating our rising inequality. The Chinese have learned to offset oppressive communist forces with materialistic capitalism – like our affordable materialism keeps Americans distracted and docile (with help from Chinese imports). In colonial America the greedy British motivated our Revolutionary War, but with oppression now coming from within, will Americans wait too long?


Some Americans keep warning us – people like Michael Moore, Cindy Sheehan, Aaron Russo, Dennis Kucinich, Mike Gravel, Lou Dobbs, Ralph Nader, Ron Paul, Bill Moyers, Jon Stewart, and Keith Olbermann. They entertain complacent “frogs” and preach to the choir of alert “frogs” that also know the temperature is rising dangerously. Many of the former keep hoping that putting better Democrats or Republicans in office will get us back on the right track. Many of the latter are ready to jump to what our Constitution offers us: an Article V convention.


And once you know that plutocratic elites from both major parties have for decades opposed the Article V convention to propose constitutional amendments, YOU should favor what THEY oppose.


We frequently see a knee-jerk fear reaction to an Article V convention. Such fear is misplaced and baseless. Only the rich and powerful elites running and ruining our nation should fear a convention.


It is fatalistic to fear that a convention could make things worse by removing valued parts of the Constitution or adding terrible things. Naturally, no one knows with certainty what a convention might propose. But we do know with certainty that whatever a convention proposes must satisfy the Constitution’s rigorous ratification requirement. That two step process is part of the genius of the Constitution. Recall that a convention is the alternative to Congress proposing amendments. And what do Americans think of Congress?

A measly 23 percent view Congress positively. Expecting Congress to enact really good laws, spend our taxes wisely, and keep the president and executive branch agencies from abusing us is like a joke on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart. It is laugh-at-loud funny to put trust and faith in Congress. It matters not whether Democrats or Republicans control Congress. Nearly all members are under the thrall of moneyed interests. Congress is a national embarrassment. Our misrepresentatives are partners in corruption, dishonesty and oppression. Over decades they have allowed the presidency to accumulate imperial powers. Do you really believe they are worth $165,200 a year, with generous health and pension benefits?
Still, we live in a great nation. But great nations rise and fall.


America is no longer close to what it should be – or once was. It no longer fairly serves and protects all Americans. Too many Americans are working poor, hungry, homeless, poorly educated, imprisoned, debt-ridden, crime victims, facing economic insecurity, nonvoters, and lacking health care.


What we have is a plutocracy run by and for the Upper Class that sucks up a huge fraction of the nation’s wealth. Lobbyists ensure that public policy increases economic inequality and rewards corporate interests, even if it requires preemptive wars like the Iraq fiasco, sanctions massive illegal immigration, and sends good jobs overseas. That so many people escaping other nations (with hot or boiling water) want to come to the USA should not blind us to the creeping decline of our democracy and the heating of our social waters.


How much worse does American democracy have to get before public outrage demands what the Constitution’s Framers gave us in case citizens lost confidence in the federal government? Haven’t Americans lost enough trust to use what elites have fought and feared? Can’t we trust ourselves to have a peaceful populist rebellion through an Article V convention before we boil?


If America’s distracted citizen-frogs stay glued to their large plasma TVs, SUVs, electronic devices, and obese-friendly foods they may find themselves boiled. Our constitutionally protected freedoms will be gone. George W. Bush has shown how easily that is done. Our middle class will be gone. Our national sovereignty will be gone – sold out through globalization chicanery. For all but the rich, our quality of life and standard of living will be gone. The Upper Class will be richer and happier in their opulent gated McMansions and private entertainment and vacation spots, protected and pampered by their private police and servants.


If Congress finally obeys the Constitution some fear that convention delegates will be corrupted through special interest money just like current politicians. That is highly unlikely.


First, many Americans will actively watch and influence how state legislatures select one-time delegates. Second, the incredible novelty of the nation’s first Article V convention will ensure intense coverage by domestic, foreign and Internet media. Third, that novelty will also engage enormous numbers of Americans – especially school and college students – now rightfully turned off by our political system, ensuring citizen oversight of delegates and the convention. Fourth, the only group working for the first convention – Friends of the Article V Convention – has committed itself to creating and ensuring strong oversight of the convention process.


Imagine our first Article V convention under intense scrutiny in today’s techno-media world. It will be the ultimate reality show, enticing Americans to use their brains over shopping and mindless entertainment. Conversations about possible amendments will flourish. Surveys and polls will constantly determine what Americans support and oppose. The convention will remind Americans that citizenship requires civic engagement. Convention delegates will know that they are being scrutinized. They will know that their proposals must be ratified by three-fourths of the states. They will be listening to US. In sum, we have more than enough safety nets to prevent the convention harming our Constitution.


Why not dream about a restorative convention with hundreds of smart, patriotic Americans as delegates? We have enormous numbers of brilliant, wise and honest Americans – just not in politics anymore. If we can trust the lives of people to juries, we can trust carefully selected convention delegates to find intelligent ways to improve our government and political system through amendments. In the last part of the process, we can tell our state legislators whether we want them to ratify specific proposed amendments.


Will the first convention be mesmerizing and entertaining? Will it help educate and inform Americans about our Constitution and government? Will it put Ruling Class elites on notice that we the people are seriously pursuing governance we can trust? Yes, yes and yes.


Should we wait until 95 percent of Americans think the nation is on the wrong track? Until just 5 percent approve of Congress? Until we belatedly find ourselves boiled? No, no and no.


Support the effort to get the nation’s first Article V convention, especially if you sense our societal waters becoming hotter – sometimes faster, as under Bush. Sign up at Welcome to Friends Of the Article V Convention. Don’t let self-delusion and false hope in Republicans or Democrats blind you. Let freedom ring. Make Thomas Jefferson proud.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Tho this guy is on the right track, the fact that he names Michael Moore, Keith Overbite, and John Stewart as ppl who want change shows me he thinks we should revolt to put a more socialistic government in power. Bashing rich ppl means class warfare, period! Not something we want to do when we'll need their money to rid ourselves of those power-hungry lawyers in Congress. Does he want an Article V convention to restore the Constitution, or replace it? I wonder.

But I wholeheartedly agree that Americans are complacent zombies who concentrate on work, TV, and stuff; and not enough on what the Constitution is, and what our elected officials are actually doing to OUR country. That is EXACTLY what the government intended for us... to stay uninformed of the business as usual con in Washington. It's long overdue that we dissolve Congress, and elect ppl who will actually do the will of the ppl!

I will read more about the Article V convention. It sounds interesting. And something I would love to take part in if it is a viable means to the end of Washington's complacency.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Why is it that every article has to bring up Bush and can't include the fact that Bush has done just about the same as Clinton and others in the past when it comes to the American people. The problems don't sit with the administration, it sits with congress and the people.

When I see Micheal Moore, Cindy Sheehan and others used to illustrate the enlightened people who are warning us, I must remind people that many of these people have a hate bush at all cost agenda, this includes Keith Olbermann. It really cheapens the article and the point. Further more the name Bill Moyers is a special case, someone who our tax money goes to support but returns nothing. He is special because when he was part of LBJ's staff, he had a lot to do with FBI investigations of people during an election and trampling on people's rights through the need to gather incriminating evidence against innocent people. I may have to throw in that both RFK and LBJ used to the FBI to do the same thing on different issues, but RFK was the most abusive AG we had in office up until Reno. He did a lot of bad things to people.

As far as an article 5 convention, you know I don't want the constitution added to - plain and simple. There is no need to add things to it, just repeal a few of the amendments, starting with the 17th amendment, then the 23rd amendment, then the 25th and finally the 26th. These will help out the country a lot, just the first one would put us back to the point where we are won't have the BS pandering of Senators who are worthless.

BUT until the people understand a few things, nothing will ever happen.

1 - We can recall our senators and congressman at any time for any reason but we are too lazy to do so.

2 - The constitution does not grant anything to us, our rights are given to us by God and the constitution is there to limit government. Which by the way also is the point why the rest of the world does not understand how our government works. Read John Bolton's article on the UN that he wrote in February.

3 - Really the most important right to us is the last one, the tenth amendment - it tells the feds that there is a limit to their power.

4 - The SOLE purpose for the 17th amendment was to undermine our rights and to force the states not to be represented in congress. With this one amendment, it forces the states to be ignore, hence the article V issues are present because the state legislators can not recall their senators but now it is up to the people to do so.

5 - complacency indicates intellectual laziness, I don't buy that. We may be complacent on some issues, we are ignorant on others while we are sometime emotionally stupid on many.

But the most important thing is that the president means nothing, it is the congress who has all the power.
 
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ratwell71

Veteran Expediter
Tho this guy is on the right track, the fact that he names Michael Moore, Keith Overbite, and John Stewart as ppl who want change shows me he thinks we should revolt to put a more socialistic government in power. Bashing rich ppl means class warfare, period! Not something we want to do when we'll need their money to rid ourselves of those power-hungry lawyers in Congress. Does he want an Article V convention to restore the Constitution, or replace it? I wonder.

But I wholeheartedly agree that Americans are complacent zombies who concentrate on work, TV, and stuff; and not enough on what the Constitution is, and what our elected officials are actually doing to OUR country. That is EXACTLY what the government intended for us... to stay uninformed of the business as usual con in Washington. It's long overdue that we dissolve Congress, and elect ppl who will actually do the will of the ppl!

I will read more about the Article V convention. It sounds interesting. And something I would love to take part in if it is a viable means to the end of Washington's complacency.

Amen. Trust me, I believe that the dumbing down of America is where the problem lies.
 

ratwell71

Veteran Expediter
Why is it that every article has to bring up Bush and can't include the fact that Bush has done just about the same as Clinton and others in the past when it comes to the American people. The problems don't sit with the administration, it sits with congress and the people.

When I see Micheal Moore, Cindy Sheehan and others used to illustrate the enlightened people who are warning us, I must remind people that many of these people have a hate bush at all cost agenda, this includes Keith Olbermann. It really cheapens the article and the point. Further more the name Bill Moyers is a special case, someone who our tax money goes to support but returns nothing. He is special because when he was part of LBJ's staff, he had a lot to do with FBI investigations of people during an election and trampling on people's rights through the need to gather incriminating evidence against innocent people. I may have to throw in that both RFK and LBJ used to the FBI to do the same thing on different issues, but RFK was the most abusive AG we had in office up until Reno. He did a lot of bad things to people.

As far as an article 5 convention, you know I don't want the constitution added to - plain and simple. There is no need to add things to it, just repeal a few of the amendments, starting with the 17th amendment, then the 23rd amendment, then the 25th and finally the 26th. These will help out the country a lot, just the first one would put us back to the point where we are won't have the BS pandering of Senators who are worthless.

BUT until the people understand a few things, nothing will ever happen.

1 - We can recall our senators and congressman at any time for any reason but we are too lazy to do so.

2 - The constitution does not grant anything to us, our rights are given to us by God and the constitution is there to limit government. Which by the way also is the point why the rest of the world does not understand how our government works. Read John Bolton's article on the UN that he wrote in February.

3 - Really the most important right to us is the last one, the tenth amendment - it tells the feds that there is a limit to their power.

4 - The SOLE purpose for the 17th amendment was to undermine our rights and to force the states not to be represented in congress. With this one amendment, it forces the states to be ignore, hence the article V issues are present because the state legislators can not recall their senators but now it is up to the people to do so.

5 - complacency indicates intellectual laziness, I don't buy that. We may be complacent on some issues, we are ignorant on others while we are sometime emotionally stupid on many.

But the most important thing is that the president means nothing, it is the congress who has all the power.

You just proved the point of the article. Without the people enforcing these rights they are useless. So why is America still in so much trouble if the people have realized these powers? Because they are complacent. They go with the status quo. Those that do nothing are sheep. Bah, Bah,...

I am an activist. You tell me of a rally that I can get to and I am there. You tell me about a petition that is viable to the state of our economy and I am signing it. You tell me of a cause worth fighting and I am calling my congressmen/women.

Those that choose to complain and do nothing reap the rewards of those that take action. A definition of a socialist.
 

arkjarhead

Veteran Expediter
I don't like Michael Moore period. Just because someone wants to change people's thinking doesn't make them or what their doing good. Heck Tim McVeigh tried to change people's thinking and you see what he did. I think there are alot of people in this country we need to load up on ships and dump out in the middle of the ocean. If you aren't willing to take up arms in defense of this country you get dumped. Close the prisons the inmates get dumped to. Illegal aliens get dumped as well. If you don't take care of your family you get dumped. Once we get rid of these people we'll have a better country.
 

ratwell71

Veteran Expediter
I don't like Michael Moore period. Just because someone wants to change people's thinking doesn't make them or what their doing good. Heck Tim McVeigh tried to change people's thinking and you see what he did. I think there are alot of people in this country we need to load up on ships and dump out in the middle of the ocean. If you aren't willing to take up arms in defense of this country you get dumped. Close the prisons the inmates get dumped to. Illegal aliens get dumped as well. If you don't take care of your family you get dumped. Once we get rid of these people we'll have a better country.

The majority of this country thrown in would float and come back to the shores. There is something to be said about being closed minded. I would rather listen to the ideas and opinions of all those that have something to contribute.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
April the 20th was my ONE year anniversary of being legal in the U.S. and I have to say....Man are you guys whimps!!! You guys talk about Canada being whooped...your just as bad...your gov. is walking all over ya's and nothing gets said...whats up with that? All this woo waa we are mighty, we are strong, we the people....really???
The Government whips out the cattle prod and ya all fall into line just like Canadians....Seems both sides of the border, the doctors must be performing a lot of backbone extractions.
If you don't like to read it....do something to change my mind.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Charley Reese has been a journalist for 49 years.

THE 545 PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE USA'S WOES BY CHARLEY REESE:
Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them. Have you ever wondered why, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, we have deficits?
Have you ever wondered why, if all the politicians are against
inflation and high taxes, we have inflation and high taxes? You and I don't propose a federal budget. The president does. You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does. You and I don't write the tax code. Congress does. You and I don't set fiscal policy. Congress does. You and I don't control monetary policy. The Federal Reserve Bank does. One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one president and nine Supreme Court justices - 545 human beings out of the 300 million - are directly, legally, morally and individually responsible for the domestic problems
that plague this country. I excluded the members of the Federal
Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered but private central bank. I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason, they have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a congressman or a president to do one cotton- picking thing. I don't care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the
legislator's responsibility to determine how he votes. A CONFIDENCE CONSPIRACY Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of party. What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount of gall. No normal human being would have
the gall of a SPEAKER, who stood up and criticized G.W. BUSH for creating deficits. The president can only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it. The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving appropriations and taxes.
Who is the speaker of the House? She is the leader of the majority party. She and fellow Democrats, not the president, can approve any budget they want. If the president vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto. REPLACE THE SCOUNDRELS It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million cannot replace 545 people who stand convicted -- by present facts - of incompetence and irresponsibility. I can't think of a single domestic problem, from an unfair tax code to defense overruns,
that is not traceable directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise power of the federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to exist. If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it unfair. If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in the red. If the Marines are in battle, it's because they want them in battle. There are no insoluble government problems. Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can take this
power. Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exist disembodied mystical forces like "the economy," "inflation" or "politics" that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.
Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible. They, and they alone, have the power. They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their bosses - provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own employees. We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their mess.
 

ratwell71

Veteran Expediter
April the 20th was my ONE year anniversary of being legal in the U.S. and I have to say....Man are you guys whimps!!! You guys talk about Canada being whooped...your just as bad...your gov. is walking all over ya's and nothing gets said...whats up with that? All this woo waa we are mighty, we are strong, we the people....really???
The Government whips out the cattle prod and ya all fall into line just like Canadians....Seems both sides of the border, the doctors must be performing a lot of backbone extractions.
If you don't like to read it....do something to change my mind.

Congrads. I have never spoken against those that come here legally ever. We all are immigrants.

You are right! Thanks for contributing.
 

ratwell71

Veteran Expediter
Charley Reese has been a journalist for 49 years.

THE 545 PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE USA'S WOES BY CHARLEY REESE:
Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them. Have you ever wondered why, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, we have deficits?
Have you ever wondered why, if all the politicians are against
inflation and high taxes, we have inflation and high taxes? You and I don't propose a federal budget. The president does. You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does. You and I don't write the tax code. Congress does. You and I don't set fiscal policy. Congress does. You and I don't control monetary policy. The Federal Reserve Bank does. One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one president and nine Supreme Court justices - 545 human beings out of the 300 million - are directly, legally, morally and individually responsible for the domestic problems
that plague this country. I excluded the members of the Federal
Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered but private central bank. I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason, they have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a congressman or a president to do one cotton- picking thing. I don't care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the
legislator's responsibility to determine how he votes. A CONFIDENCE CONSPIRACY Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of party. What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount of gall. No normal human being would have
the gall of a SPEAKER, who stood up and criticized G.W. BUSH for creating deficits. The president can only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it. The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving appropriations and taxes.
Who is the speaker of the House? She is the leader of the majority party. She and fellow Democrats, not the president, can approve any budget they want. If the president vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto. REPLACE THE SCOUNDRELS It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million cannot replace 545 people who stand convicted -- by present facts - of incompetence and irresponsibility. I can't think of a single domestic problem, from an unfair tax code to defense overruns,
that is not traceable directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise power of the federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to exist. If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it unfair. If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in the red. If the Marines are in battle, it's because they want them in battle. There are no insoluble government problems. Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can take this
power. Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exist disembodied mystical forces like "the economy," "inflation" or "politics" that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.
Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible. They, and they alone, have the power. They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their bosses - provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own employees. We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their mess.

THANK YOU!!!!!
 

arkjarhead

Veteran Expediter
The majority of this country thrown in would float and come back to the shores. There is something to be said about being closed minded. I would rather listen to the ideas and opinions of all those that have something to contribute.

Not if you tie weights around their necks. You can call me closed minded if you liike but mike moore is a cry baby and most liberals are nothing but a bunch of little girls. I get tired of hearing them wine. All they do is talk, but there is no action. Let them go to Iraq and see the :censoredsign: first hand then we will hear what they have to say once they reach down and grab a pair and put their neck on the line. All I was saying is I think we need to rid ourselves of the scum in this country. If you call yourself a man and don't take care of your family I don't care to hear what you have to say.
 

arkjarhead

Veteran Expediter
Congrads. I have never spoken against those that come here legally ever. We all are immigrants.

You are right! Thanks for contributing.

You may be an immigrant, but I'm not. My ancestors were, but my birth certificate says I was born in Little Rock,AR.

OVM,
Mr. Reese got one thing wrong. If the Marines are in battle it isn't because the Congress wants them there it's because the President wants them there. The Congress can't tell the Marine Corps to do a darn thing. The Corps works directly for the President. The Congress does keep the Marine Corps from getting to large. The Congress passed a bill years ago that says the Marine Corps can not get any larger than 275,000. That's where the checks and balances come in. The higher end of the Marine Corps Chain of Command looks like this.

President
Sec. of Defense
Sec. of the Navy
Commandant of the Marine Corps
Assn. Commandant of the Marine Corps
Sgt. Major of the Marine Corps

See, no where in there is the Congress.
 

ratwell71

Veteran Expediter
Not if you tie weights around their necks. You can call me closed minded if you liike but mike moore is a cry baby and most liberals are nothing but a bunch of little girls. I get tired of hearing them wine. All they do is talk, but there is no action. Let them go to Iraq and see the :censoredsign: first hand then we will hear what they have to say once they reach down and grab a pair and put their neck on the line. All I was saying is I think we need to rid ourselves of the scum in this country. If you call yourself a man and don't take care of your family I don't care to hear what you have to say.

I am with you on growing a pair. Alot of Americans here need to do the same. I get sick of the cry babies too. None of them are willing to take action.
 

ratwell71

Veteran Expediter
You may be an immigrant, but I'm not. My ancestors were, but my birth certificate says I was born in Little Rock,AR.

OVM,
Mr. Reese got one thing wrong. If the Marines are in battle it isn't because the Congress wants them there it's because the President wants them there. The Congress can't tell the Marine Corps to do a darn thing. The Corps works directly for the President. The Congress does keep the Marine Corps from getting to large. The Congress passed a bill years ago that says the Marine Corps can not get any larger than 275,000. That's where the checks and balances come in. The higher end of the Marine Corps Chain of Command looks like this.

President
Sec. of Defense
Sec. of the Navy
Commandant of the Marine Corps
Assn. Commandant of the Marine Corps
Sgt. Major of the Marine Corps

See, no where in there is the Congress.

I stand corrected. Our ancestors were immigrants, but the point is still the same.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
We all are immigrants.

I am not an immigrant, I am a natural born citizen. To claim we are all immigrants cheapen the sacrifices made in establishing and maintaining my country, and I can not let that form of political correctness thinking take place.

My country, like other countries in history, conquered an indignant people of the land to establish itself. Every country on every continent has done the same thing but where we allowed ourselves to think we are superior because of our religion and race, which was the norm of the times and in retrospect was a failure.

If it was up to me, integration would have been the norm, not separation but because I was not there, I take great offense in hearing I’m to blame for something that happened over 100 years ago.
 

ratwell71

Veteran Expediter
I am not an immigrant, I am a natural born citizen. To claim we are all immigrants cheapen the sacrifices made in establishing and maintaining my country, and I can not let that form of political correctness thinking take place.

(((I corrected my statement, but the point still remains the same.))))

My country, like other countries in history, conquered an indignant people of the land to establish itself. Every country on every continent has done the same thing but where we allowed ourselves to think we are superior because of our religion and race, which was the norm of the times and in retrospect was a failure.

((((Thank you. I agree.))))

If it was up to me, integration would have been the norm, not separation but because I was not there, I take great offense in hearing I’m to blame for something that happened over 100 years ago.

((((I agree.)))

I 100 percent agree with you.
 

arkjarhead

Veteran Expediter
I'd like to attempt to add something to what Greg was saying if I may. If you ask me an immigrant is someone who moves from one country to another under 2 conditions. The first condition is they do so legally, and the second is they do so on their own free will. Some my disagree, but these are my views.

Therefore if you use those 2 conditions in determining if someone is an immigrant or not you would be surprised to find out how few people descend from pure immigrant heritage. See I am 25% Cherokee Indian. They have been here for thousands of years, or many moons as they say in the od westerns. Then you have my European ancestors. Many of them were locked away in debtors prison in England before being sold into indentured servitude, which is a form of slavery, and sent to the Colonies to work off their debts. Thirdly you have my African ancestors who were taken from their homeland in Eastern Africa to work the plantations in the South. Looking at it like that my ancestors were either already here or brought here against their will.

I consider my self to be a "white boy" because that is what my family and I most resemble. At least until summer rolls along. I usually just tell people I'm white chocolate with a hint of cinnamin(native american). They tend to look at me all weird until I explain and then they kind of chuckle and call me a crazy white boy.
 

ratwell71

Veteran Expediter
I'd like to attempt to add something to what Greg was saying if I may. If you ask me an immigrant is someone who moves from one country to another under 2 conditions. The first condition is they do so legally, and the second is they do so on their own free will. Some my disagree, but these are my views.

Therefore if you use those 2 conditions in determining if someone is an immigrant or not you would be surprised to find out how few people descend from pure immigrant heritage. See I am 25% Cherokee Indian. They have been here for thousands of years, or many moons as they say in the od westerns. Then you have my European ancestors. Many of them were locked away in debtors prison in England before being sold into indentured servitude, which is a form of slavery, and sent to the Colonies to work off their debts. Thirdly you have my African ancestors who were taken from their homeland in Eastern Africa to work the plantations in the South. Looking at it like that my ancestors were either already here or brought here against their will.

I consider my self to be a "white boy" because that is what my family and I most resemble. At least until summer rolls along. I usually just tell people I'm white chocolate with a hint of cinnamin(native american). They tend to look at me all weird until I explain and then they kind of chuckle and call me a crazy white boy.

I am a mutt. Part Blackfoot, English, German, Crapola, etc... LOL
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
As a Christian I am still awaiting reparations from Greg's ancestors for feeding my people to the lions. I am also waiting for T/A Travel Centers of America to make good on the $100 they owe me. I will not give up!
 
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