Americans won't swallow another cure for economy

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
a sample from article...

Olive: Americans won't swallow another cure for economy - thestar.com

Taking into account Americans who have given up looking for work, or are underemployed in temp jobs, the rate of Americans with no, or woefully insufficient employment, is an astonishing 17 per cent.

The truth of the matter is that the original $787-billion stimulus package sought and won from Congress by U.S. President Barack Obama – a bigger sum as a percentage of the economy than Franklin Roosevelt's first-year New Deal outlays – has worked as far as it goes. The White House estimates that about one million Americans – mostly firefighters, police, teachers and other state employees who were designated to be laid off – have been spared the loss of their jobs.

A consensus of U.S. economists, including conservatives, believe the stimulus has pulled the U.S. out of recession and got the economy growing again for the first time since December 2007.

By design, the epic stimulus package was "back-loaded," with most of the spending to be done next year. As of August, only 19 per cent of the $787 billion had been spent. As I've written before, Obama, more fiscally conservative than most progressives realized until now, wanted to assess the impact of the stimulus in the hope that he wouldn't have to spend the entire amount. Obama wanted it spent slowly in order to avoid a boondoggle, in his mission to restore confidence in government competence.
 

riverrat2000

Seasoned Expediter
I never thought I would see Obama and fiscally conservative used in the same sentence.

the Man isn't using a wheel barrel to throw away our money, he is hauling it away with a fleet of UTE's
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I think the keyword there is...projected spending..

technically about a half trillion is not spent YET!
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
And when that money is unleashed the inflation will go wild. You can't put that much money into an econonmy without really making it. Just turning loose printed money, money not backed by production is foolish.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
OVM,
The article is false news for a false prophet.

The fact that they are attributing a million "saved" jobs is wrong, there were not a million on chopping block for job termination but rather a temporary layoffs to help with budget issues. If states, like michigan would cut in areas, like teachers perks and elminate tenure, the savings would be enough to balance the budget within two years.

The other fact is the money that has been spent so far has not really provided the needed stimulus but rather shore up states who needed to cut back anyway. The road building project, which most of the money has gone to thus far has not been one like FDR's programs but the opposite where road building companies managed the projects tightly and over bid on the work in many of the cases because of a lack of competition. Unlike the WPA and other FDR projects that were done in record time because of no end in sight, the American Recover and rip off act has a closure and this prevents real job creation and revitilising of the work force.

The real question that has not been asked by the media, would there be a faster recovery if we didn't spend a dime? There is rumblings, as there were at the end of the depression, that we actualyl did more harm by increasing the debt and shifting government's power more into the private sector than if we left it alone and made those who were accoutnable (which has yet to happen) actaulyl pay the price they deserve.

Like the big whoopy about home market gains of 9%, this is twisted to look like home sales have taken off but as one smart economist mentioned today; "...the equalibrium of the housing market is not reached yet where it needs to be and if we continue with programs that Put us in more debt in the long run while allowing the market to artificially pushing prices up, we will end up in a bigger mess soon that we won't see a recovey regardless what is done to correct it"
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
I won't call it B/S but he failed to mention that most all of the jobs "created" were people that had jobs and weren't working because they were awaiting STATE bid work...the road work we are seeing was planned and most of it paid for with a combination of fed and state and local funds...all that changed was that the fed money now comes from the "stimulus" instead of the federal hyway dept." budget.....just a little slight of hand...and then there were the new gov jobs that barry hired...you know the acorn activist that now are on the gov payroll working in the urban housing business....

yea they gave money to cities to keep cops, for 2 yrs, when that money is gone, and when the cities can't afford to keep them, the jobs are gone again.....

Then there is the 3 billion missing money.....

Yea i will call the article B/S......

If it was working so well, why are the feds looking to do another "handout!!?!?" .......Oh and economist that aren't just parroting barrys b/s , and i don't care if they are conservatives or libs, they know that this economy is going to crash again, its just a matter of time.....thise looking at the stick market as a sign of recovery are just looking at a house of cards.....
 
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greg334

Veteran Expediter
It is always added, Jobs created or saved.

Not all the road work was planned. Some of the stuff happening here was not to happen for five years, after they just rebuilt the roads a couple years ago.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
"I've Gotta believe its getting better, a little better all the time..."

Its being said that barry can be heard repeating this over and over each day as he wonders around aimlessly....


I have spoke of this more then a few times, and Greg has tried to drive home this same info alot longer then me...its starting and it ain't going to get better....buckle up, if you thought the residual reality collapse was big...this is bigger and will do more damage and barry, and timmy, and summers and ben can't do a thing to stop it....well except print more worthless money and try and throw at the problem...and that won't work either...but hey, its bushs fault....barry inherited it.....

Huge Commercial Real Estate Lender goes under

Capmark Said Ready to File for Bankruptcy - WSJ.com

BY MIKE SPECTOR

Capmark Financial Group Inc., one of the nation's largest commercial-real-estate lenders, plans to file for bankruptcy as soon as this weekend, a person familiar with the situation said.

The much-expected move underscores the deep problems in the business-property market. After suffering from the collapse in residential mortgages, U.S. banks face steep losses from commercial real-estate loans. Capmark has originated more than $10 billion in commercial real-estate loans, according to Moody's Investors Service.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
yet another sure sign of a strong recovery.....yea....:rolleyes:

Intermodal Traffic Declines for Week

By Transport Topics

http://ttnews.com/articles/basetempl...?storyid=23030

U.S. intermodal rail traffic fell 12.6% in the week ended Saturday compared with the same week last year, the Association of American Railroads said.

Total intermodal volume declined to 206,139 units, from 235,750 last year, AAR said in its weekly report.

Containers fell 6.7% to 174,694 units, while trailer volume plunged 35.2% to 31,445 units.

Freight rail traffic, which excludes intermodal traffic fell 15.4% 275,545 carloads, AAR said.

Railroad volume is considered an important economic indicator. Intermodal traffic, which tends to be higher-valued merchandise than bulk commodities, uses trains for the long haul and trucks for the shorter distance at either end of the trip.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
Yea its all good and it is getting better all the time...

New wave of commercial foreclosures looms

By Michael Braga

Published: Sunday, October 25, 2009 at 1:00 a.m.
Last Modified: Saturday, October 24, 2009 at 9:53 p.m.
New wave of commercial foreclosures looms | HeraldTribune.com | Sarasota Florida | Southwest Florida's Information Leader

Banks have foreclosed on more than 400,000 square feet of office space, more than 400 hotel rooms, more than 1,250 condominum units, more than 100,000 square feet of warehouse space and more than 150 acres of raw commercial land in Sarasota and Manatee counties since November.

This is prime commercial real estate that about 80 investors bought and developed during the real estate boom with loans totaling nearly $300 million.

With those investors unable to make interest payments, the properties will soon be taken over by banks -- a prospect that few in the financial community look forward to.

Just as the housing market starts to recover and the national economy tentatively emerges from the deepest recession since the 1930s, banks across the country are bracing for another wave of foreclosures.

Nationwide, $1 trillion in commercial real estate loans comes due next year. Many borrowers are unlikely to be able to refinance, causing defaults that could lead to more bank failures and could even knock the economy back into recession.

The only hope of averting a wave of defaults: a resurgence of investor buyers. Most observers think those buyers are waiting for fire-sale prices before they jump in.

Paul Kasriel, Northern Trust's chief economist, predicts the new wave of foreclosures means the growth the U.S. economy saw in the third quarter will not be matched again until the last quarter of 2010.

"This tsunami will not be as big as the first one," said Kasriel, meaning the wave of residential foreclosures. "But it will wash over the financial system and cause a lot of damage."

Office and hotel defaults

The big office complex that Peter Shipps erected on Tamiami Trail in North Port is a symbol of overbuilding during the boom.

Thinking that Southwest Florida would benefit from a sustained population increase, bankers willingly lent money without developers having to pre-lease the space.

Shipps, a successful Venice builder and developer, approached Naples-based Orion bank with a plan to build five Class A office buildings. Orion lent him more than $10 million for the first phase.

But just as Shipps' first two buildings came out of the ground, the real estate market entered its prolonged slide. He was unable to lease enough space to make interest payments and defaulted on $7.3 million in January.

"They are great buildings in a great location," said Chad Maxwell, a North Port commercial real estate agent. "They just created too much space on the market."

The worldwide recession only made things worse, said Stan Rutstein, a commercial agent with Re/Max in Bradenton.

"Every doctor's office, every attorney's office, every imaging center and every dentist's office cut back," Rutstein said. "People have left the market, tourism is down and businesses have cut back staff. It's pretty bloody."

A large of amount of office space built is sitting empty. Vacancy rates hover around 14 percent in downtown Sarasota, 20 percent in Lakewood Ranch and 30 percent in Venice and Bradenton, according to Manatee and Sarasota counties' economic development organizations.

The fortunes of local hotel developers also plummeted.

In 2005 and 2006, there was a mini-boom in hotel acquisitions and developments. A group led by Harvey Birdman paid $10 million for the 178-room Holiday Inn on Tamiami Trail near the Sarasota-Bradenton International Airport in April 2005. Reliance Realty Partners out of Stamford, Conn., invested more than $30 million in a vacation rental and marina project on Holmes Beach. Bernard LeBlanc's family bought the 160-room Holiday Inn on the U.S. 41 bypass in Venice for $10 million in August 2006.

All three have since defaulted, on more than $50 million in loans.

Another beat-up segment is office condominiums.

During the boom, these 1,000- to 2,000-square-foot spaces sold as fast as they came to market at ever-increasing prices. Condos that started selling for $55 per square foot soared as high as $155, said Carl Wise, a commercial real estate agent who founded Sarasota's Preferred Commercial.

But their owners are now defaulting in large numbers.

"They're in a terrible place now," Wise said. "They are losing their shirts and will continue to do so."

Banks swamped

Banks that lent money to commercial developers and investors are suffering along with their customers.

"I talked to one banker back in June and he said he had a stack of foreclosures two feet thick in his office," said Jeff Button, a commercial agent with the Sarasota's Kleiber Group. "And that's just one bank."

Analysts expect Florida community banks to be hit especially hard because they tended to make a lot of commercial property loans. Southwest Florida already has seen five banks go under -- Bradenton's Flagship National Bank, First Priority Bank and Freedom Bank and First State Bank of Sarasota and Community National Bank of Venice. They may not be the last.

In the meantime, the problems will be felt in the broader economy.

Banks have the capital to make loans. It just makes no sense to chase after commercial real estate when values are dropping, said Bill Sedgeman, chairman of Community National Bank of Manatee.

"What's coming to us now are people who are underwater on their mortgages," Sedgeman said. "They owe more than the properties are worth."

The only way banks can refinance them is if customers are willing to bring cash to the closing table.

Their properties are now sometimes worth only a third of the value they had when the loans were made, so they will have to repay some of what they borrowed. But few borrowers can come up with the cash. So banks will have to foreclose and sell off the properties.

With more and more properties coming onto the market through foreclosures, commercial property values will continue to drop.

Until buyers start taking more properties off the market than are coming on, banks will not lend, Sedgeman said.

"We need to have buyers and we don't have buyers," Sedgeman said. "The reason we don't have buyers is that our economy is so construction-oriented. Until construction gets started again, we won't have jobs and without jobs there will be no tenants for commercial space."

Awaiting private investors

With banks out of the picture, cash-rich private investors and private equity funds will rule the day.

But those investors are unlikely to buy until prices fall to 10 to 20 cents on the dollar, said Rutstein, the Bradenton agent. That is when the powerful private equity money from the Related Companies, Steve Roth of Vornado Realty Trust and Granado Real Estate will get involved.

"Buyers are not going to adjust prices," Rutstein said. "There's no reason. There's more supply than demand and every week supply gets bigger. The most used word in commercial real estate these days is 'carry.' 'What will it cost me to carry this property and for how long?' These are unknown questions.

"The price has to be right and we really haven't come to terms with the right price at the moment."

Generational wealth

The only good to come of all this turmoil: "People who have money will be able to create generational wealth," said Chad Maxwell, a North Port commercial real estate agent. "They will be able to buy properties for far less than the cost of construction."

In Southwest Florida, the residential market will gradually strengthen, allowing home builders to begin construction again. As the economy improves elsewhere, retirees will show up in greater numbers. Those builders and their subcontractors will expand staff. Offices and warehouses will start to fill. The growing population and rising employment will boost consumption.

Once all that happens, commercial real estate lease rates will stop falling, analysts said.

But how long will it take?

"In the old days, you could make a reasonable guess," said Ian Black, a Sarasota-based commercial real estate broker. "Even now, investors are willing to come back in the market. But there is still a tremendous gap between what people are willing to pay and what banks will let properties go for."
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Things might get MUCH worse before they improve. Nothing Barry and Co. are doing are likely to help. They are more likely to make things worse.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
Oh it is going to get alot worse....not tomorrow, but over the next 3-5 yrs we will see the total destruction of our economy..and yes what barry and his minions are doing is the now major contributing factor...and more and more people that understand how our economy works and is structured, think what is happening is by design.....
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Yea its all good and it is getting better all the time...

New wave of commercial foreclosures looms

By Michael Braga

Published: Sunday, October 25, 2009 at 1:00 a.m.
Last Modified: Saturday, October 24, 2009 at 9:53 p.m.
New wave of commercial foreclosures looms | HeraldTribune.com | Sarasota Florida | Southwest Florida's Information Leader

As the article states...over supply and over built when times were good....this is just a market adjustment...again article reads like some banks shot themselves in the foot again,,,They deserve this...
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
Truck tonnage is up??

Trucking news: ATA reports September truck volumes are down slightly

Jeff Berman, Group News Editor -- Logistics Management, 10/23/2009

ARLINGTON, Va.-Following matching 2.1 percent gains in July August, truck tonnage volumes took a small step back in September with a 0.3 percent decline, according to the American Trucking Associations (ATA).

This output lowered the ATA's seasonally adjusted (SA) For-Hire Truck Tonnage Index to 103.9 (2000=100), which is slightly behind August's 104.1 output and is its highest level since February. The SA has been up or flat in three of the last five months and down four of the last seven months.

you can finish the article at this link:

http://www.logisticsmgmt.com/articl...September_truck_volumes_are_down_slightly.php


And while they trucking companies "FEEL" optimistic, they also know that it might not happen, as people are not spending money, which menas stores aren't stocking inventories, which means less imports and less container and railcar traffic..which means less overall volume of traffic and less work...which means more layoffs, more trucking companies going under and a worse economy....But you keep that smiley face, and hope that the Christmas retail season helps...personally i don't think it will be, and i am not alone on that...

LOL, this "market adjustment' is in commerical property...the volume and dollar value of these property are huge and will make the housing collapse look like childs play...and barry and timmy and summers and helicopter ben didn't plan for it.....its going to get really nasty...you are going to see some of the banks that were "too big to fail" , take it in the shorts again, and the only way to save them AGAIN is going to be to print more worthless money.....or ..shock, let them go broke this time.....
 
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greg334

Veteran Expediter
A lot of this has to do with what I was saying a few months ago, commercial paper is coming due in the fall (September) and it is the commercial paper that needs to be covered or the 'recovery' will fall.

See we are still in a "banking" crisis, lenders are still tight with money, the FTC and the feds haven't made a single moved to correct issues that caused the tightening of the money from banks and even still has refused to breakup the mega banks (you know those who are too large to fail) under some of the anti-trust laws.

I think with the amount of foreclosures rising in both the home market and the commercial market, the false sales indicators in the housing market and the indication that no one wants to really invest (Detroit - housing auction fails to sell $500 houses), we are not even close to hitting the bottom of the recession.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
wanna twist numbers like the government does?

if it was up 3.1% over July and August and went down .3% in Sept. That is a 2.8% gain overall...:D:rolleyes:

Now when they are comparing year to year..they are going to be getting into some low numbers anyhows....everything will look rosey by default...:D
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The ONLY way that things could look rosey now is to look through a pair of the "Rose Colored Glasses" that the Dumb-O-Crats are handing out in Detroit!! :rolleyes:
 
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