Abandoned

[ATeam]

While it may seem so on the first read, I am not trying to be difficult here or back anyone into a corner. I am only trying to be precise and to find out exactly what we expediters are obligated and not obligated to do in the event of a truck breakdown under load.

I do not know exactly because Diane and I have very little experience in such things. Once, when we were with FedEx Custom Critical, our truck broke down under load. We were near a Volvo dealer on a Sunday and after a road service call it was determined that it would risk serious mechanical damage to the truck to continue. We drove it as far as the dealer and waited for them to open on Monday.

That left us with freight on board. This was a cross-country run. A tow, if one would have been made, would have been from Iowa to New Jersey. Dispatch was able to send a rescue truck and the load was delivered on time so we were not charged with a service failure. We got paid for the miles driven. The other truck got paid for the remainder of the run. It worked out quit well, we thought.

At Landstar, we were recently called in to rescue a truck that broke down. That truck was an escort vehicle and we picked up the duties from the breakdown point. I do not know how the pay of the other trucks involved were affected. No tow was required. To us, it was just another run.

But this thread got me thinking more about the specifics of breaking down under load. You know me. I like good answers to good questions.

It seems to me that every expediter should have contingincy plans and expectations for what happens when one breaks down under load. Because I want to refine Diane's and my own plan in that regard, I am asking questions here.

 

[ATeam]

If I tell them or any company I can means I will. Saying you can but then you don't is like saying " I can but I'm not going to". If you can still do it but it has to be towed it is still your problem.

That's the thing. I'm not so sure that being towed to a delivery is your problem. This thread has prompted me to read the fine print in our lease agreement and a few recent bills of ladings Diane or I have signed. There is nothing in any of them that talks about being towed to a delivery, whether the contractor, carrier or customer pays. It is simply not mentioned.

If a shipper wants something more than my reasonable and best efforts to complete a run as scheduled, or to put it another way, if a shipper wants me to guarantee that the shipment will arrive on time, and if that guarantee implies the added expense of being towed into the delivery if necessary, I am going to charge a higher rate to address that contingency, or I will charge a normal rate with the option to greatly increase it if a tow cost is incurred.

Guarantees are common with expedited freight, but the penalties for a failure to fulfill the guarantee do not include a mandate to tow. The penalties I have seen include a discount in the rate on a sliding scale. The later the freight is, the lower the pay goes.

 

[Rocketman]

It seems sort of obviuos to me. Im not about to get into a word game about it. I know (and Im pretty sure that you know) who's responsibility that load is once it's on the truck... actually once it is accepted by the contractor.

Instead of asking me to quote from my contract. What do you have in your contract that would give any indication that you are able to fail your responsibility of delivering the load? To not deliver the load, on time, is a service failure...is it not?

The consignee, you know, the people who are sitting on their hands with a production line shut down...they don't care who the responsibility falls on. All they know is that they paid as much or more money to get a couple of skids shipped as they could have gotten a t/t load shipped for. They want, need and very rightfully expect to get what they paid for. You can fail that responsibility if you wish. You can even point out in your contract or any other piece of legal paperwork, if you wish, where you are legally able to fail to do what you said you would do. None of that will negate the fact though, that you failed to deliver.

 

[BigCat]

While it may seem so on the first read, I am not trying to be difficult here or back anyone into a corner. I am only trying to be precise and to find out exactly what we expediters are obligated and not obligated to do in the event of a truck breakdown under load.

I do not know exactly because Diane and I have very little experience in such things. Once, when we were with FedEx Custom Critical, our truck broke down under load. We were near a Volvo dealer on a Sunday and after a road service call it was determined that it would risk serious mechanical damage to the truck to continue. We drove it as far as the dealer and waited for them to open on Monday.

That left us with freight on board. This was a cross-country run. A tow, if one would have been made, would have been from Iowa to New Jersey. Dispatch was able to send a rescue truck and the load was delivered on time so we were not charged with a service failure. We got paid for the miles driven. The other truck got paid for the remainder of the run. It worked out quit well, we thought.

At Landstar, we were recently called in to rescue a truck that broke down. That truck was an escort vehicle and we picked up the duties from the breakdown point. I do not know how the pay of the other trucks involved were affected. No tow was required. To us, it was just another run.

But this thread got me thinking more about the specifics of breaking down under load. You know me. I like good answers to good questions.

It seems to me that every expediter should have contingincy plans and expectations for what happens when one breaks down under load. Because I want to refine Diane's and my own plan in that regard, I am asking questions here.

You been doing this 8 years and don't know what your obligations to your carrier and their customers are?

Serious question Phil don't take it wrong.

 

[cheri1122]

Neither is the assumption that the driver's credentials [license, medical card] are up to date - it's implicit that the driver is responsible for maintaining them. Ditto with the condition of the truck, because neither the carrier or the customer is, correct?

 

[highway star]

What a silly game of semantics. "Ethical bravado"? Really...?

 

[ATeam]

One other point:

Diane and I get it about delivering the freight safely and on time, every time. The dispatchers at FedEx knew that we get it. When we left, the ones we talked to all said that when they put freight on our truck, they knew they did not have to worry about that load. The agents at Landtar who know us also know that we get it about delivering freight safely and on time, every time. When we left FedEx, we had completed just under 1,000 loads with a career on-time pick up and delivery rate of 99.7 percent. That number has improved since then as we have had zero late pick ups or deliveries at Landstar.

We get it about customer service, fulfilling expectations, being on time, etc.

What I do not get is the notion voiced in this thread that expediters are somehow obligated to pay a tow truck three dollars a mile to tow a truck hundreds of miles to complete a load that paid only a fraction of that. It seems to me that if expediters are obligated to take such a loss on a load, the terms and condiditions of the load should be such that the expediter is protected.

It also seems to me that expediters are not required to pay for a tow to the delivery under any expediting contract or carrier policy that I have seen.

Yes, ethical obligations exist. Yes, expediters give their word. But what does that mean exactly when a tow truck comes into play? The word I give is documented in the contract and bills of ladings I sign, and there is nothing in those that obligates me to pay for a tow to get the freight to the delivery.

That does not mean that Diane and I will not cooperate fully with all parties to devise solutions and get the job done. It does mean that my wallet is not the first resource that will be offered.

 

[layoutshooter]

I don't believe that there is a fixed 'rule' as to how these kinds of problems are handled. A lot will depend on how far it is to a delivery, the type of freight. How soon the freight needs to be delivered, etc.

We had a situation, in fact, it involved the ATeam.

We were on a load from the east coast to MN. When we got near Sandusky, OH we got hit, hard, by a hail storm. The truck was is sorry shape, the windshield was messed up.

Arrangements were made to have the load delivered late. We drove as far as Toledo. The ATeam met us in Toledo the next morning where we transferred the freight to their truck.

There are many variables that will dictate how a problem is handled. What it does boil down too is that the owner is going to incur costs due the the failure what ever caused it. That is part of the risk of being in business.

 

[ATeam]

You been doing this 8 years and don't know what your obligations to your carrier and their customers are?

Serious question Phil don't take it wrong.

That's just it. I know exactly what my obligations are to my carrier and my carrier's customers (my customers too). I know them exactly because they are spelled out exactly in the contract and bills of ladings I sign.

What I don't know is why people in this thread are suggesting that they are obligated to pay for a tow to the delivery if they break down under load. I am not so obligated. Why do y'all thinnk you are?

 

[ATeam]

Neither is the assumption that the driver's credentials [license, medical card] are up to date - it's implicit that the driver is responsible for maintaining them. Ditto with the condition of the truck, because neither the carrier or the customer is, correct?

In Diane's and my case, it is not implicit, it is explicit in our contract that we will keep our CDL, medical card and other such things up to date. It is also explicit in our contract that our truck will "...be maintained in good and safe operating condition, as required by government authorities, at independent contractor's expense."

Note that that does not guarantee that said truck will not break down under load. Trucks are trucks. They break down. Shippers and carriers know that.

 

[mjmsprt40]

I begin to think that y'all are millionaires and you're just doing this for (a) a hobby or (b) because your wife told you to go outside and find something to do.

My obligation is to keep my vehicle maintained and myself in condition so that I can complete the mission safely and on time. Unforeseen circumstances happen to the best of us, and I don't care who you think you are, you will miss a time if you keep at this long enough. In the OP of this thread, it was a blown head gasket. For some, a deer strike can ruin your day. Bad weather will get others. An accident (not necessarily yours-- I've seen the 80-94 shut down because of an accident a few miles ahead) will get others. It's gonna happen. I've paid a long tow, after the great Galactica* gave her best to make the last run-- so the tow was empty-- it's not fun. Some of us are running on thin margins, it doesn't take much to put a OO out of action. A really long tow followed by a crippling repair bill will do it.

I think in a situation like the one in the OP, it may take the company and the IC/OO working together to make it happen. Paying a tow truck the cost of an eight-hundred mile tow would knock just about any of us out of business permanently-- especially when the tow bill is followed by the cost of heavy engine work.

(* I have a habit of naming my vehicles. The last one before this one was the longest, tallest Sprinter, so it was named Galactica.)

 

[Pilgrim]

Every carrier I've ever worked for had an exception clause in their service agreements for uncontrollable circumstances like acts of God, mechanical breakdowns, driver illnesses that would make it unsafe to operate the vehicle, etc. that might prevent timely delivery of freight. The customer knows this going in, but it's the carrier's responsibility to whatever possible to get the freight delivered as close to on time as they can. If this means sending another truck to rescue the freight so be it, and this is usually the way it's handled. The broken down truck may need to be towed to a dock to transfer the freight, or if they're lucky it can be transferred back-to-back with a pallet jack, or they can tow it to the consignee. If the rescue truck has to come from a partner carrier, the carrier has to eat whatever extra charge that entails; they are committed to delivering the freight - period. Regarding the tow charges for the broken down truck: unless the contract reads otherwise, those go to the owner of the truck. The carrier will have payment to the tow truck worked out before its ever dispatched. If that's not the case you're dealing with a dumb tow truck dispatcher and an unreliable expedite carrier. You as a non-owner driver should NEVER have to pay the tow charges unless you have it in writing you'll be reimbursed by the owner.

 

[cheri1122]

Trucks break down even when meticulously maintained - but as the maintenance is strictly the owner's responsibility, some are more meticulous than others. In any case, it certainly isn't the carrier or customer's fault, so I can't see why they would be obligated to pay for a breakdown situation that required a tow. If it were tremendously expensive [as in your example], I'd hope the customer could wait for delivery, as they would have to in some situations: I spent 3 days stuck in Va a few years ago, in a blizzard that shut down the roads completely. In such cases, the customer will have to wait, no two ways about it.
But if they won't wait, and a tow is the sole option, then it's the owner's responsibility to cover the cost, IMO.
I'd like to think that reason would prevail, but I know that what seems reasonable may be something different to each party concerned.

 

[jjoerger]

In my opinion it would have to be a rare cicumstance for a truck to be towed all the way to the reciever. With all the expedite carriers and trucks roaming this great country it seems that a transfer could be arranged. When we were hit by lightning earlier this year a transfer was arranged and the customer received the freight a day late. We were paid for the miles driven as was the transfer truck.

Sent from my PG06100 using EO Forums

 

[ATeam]

Instead of asking me to quote from my contract. What do you have in your contract that would give any indication that you are able to fail your responsibility of delivering the load? To not deliver the load, on time, is a service failure...is it not?

No, it is not a service failure. The words "service failure" do not appear in our contract. "Service failure" was a familiar concept at FedEx Custom Critical but I do not recall if those words appeared in their contract. At FedEx, a contractor would be charged with a service failure if the delivery was late due to a truck breakdown or driver negligence (circumstances out of the driver's control -- weather, traffic delay, etc. -- were not so charged). At Landstar, I have never seen or heard the words "service failure" mentioned in any contract, company publication or training event.

The consignee, you know, the people who are sitting on their hands with a production line shut down...they don't care who the responsibility falls on. All they know is that they paid as much or more money to get a couple of skids shipped as they could have gotten a t/t load shipped for. They want, need and very rightfully expect to get what they paid for.

I do not disagree. And as I said above, Diane and I get it about on-time delivery. The customers you describe with the needs they have want very much expediters like Diane and me who are dedicated to the task at hand and focused on making the delivery as scheduled.

But note that what they paid for was not guaranteed delivery such that a tow truck would be called in at the driver's expense to complete it if necessary. They paid for, under the contract they signed, a truck to deliver their urgently needed freight safely and on time (straight through in many cases).

That same contract describes, exactly, what the penalties are for a late delivery. The penalties I have seen described do not include the obligation to pay for a tow truck. They reduce the amount of the payment due in increasing amounts as the amount of time late increases.

You can fail that responsibility if you wish. You can even point out in your contract or any other piece of legal paperwork, if you wish, where you are legally able to fail to do what you said you would do. None of that will negate the fact though, that you failed to deliver.

With Diane's and my better than a 99.7 percent career (nine years) on-time pick up and delivery rate, you can save your "You can fail that responsibility if you wish" language for someone else. It does not apply to us.

I invite you to think carefully about what a contract is and does. A good contract spells out exactly what the expectations and obligations of the signing parties are. Your criticism seems to twist that idea a bit.

Verbally or by contract, I have NEVER promised a shipper or carrier that I will get their freight delivered safely and on time. I have only promised that I will do my best to make that happen. That Diane and I have done our best is evident in our track record of successful runs. So, in that regard, we have kept our word.

But if a shipper wants an iron clad guarantee that the freight will be delivered on time, the only way to provide that is to guarantee that our truck will not break down on the load. No truck owner-operator can legitimately make such a guarantee. So, to guarantee on-time delivery, it would become necessary to have other resources on the run or in reserve such as an escort vehicle or a tow truck on call. I'd be happy to make such a guarantee but would also expect to be fully and fairly compensated for providing that higher level of service.

Look, no matter how badly a line-down consignee may want or need the freight, most expedited loads are booked under standard expedite contracts that limit penalties for being late to a specific dollar amount deducted from the tariff. Those are the contracts we run under and abide by. Shippers who want more than that will have to pay more if they want Diane and me on the job.

 

[mjmsprt40]

The transporter is still a couple of centuries in the future. Even then, a transporter accident can occur and cause problems.

The only other way I know of to give an ironclad, no ifs, and or buts guarantee of on-time delivery is to be God. I am not God, and I'm reasonably sure you're not God. I do know a guy on another forum who has claimed to be God, but at the same time he claims there is no god so I don't know how far you want to go with that.

 

[Turtle]

Again...the circumstances dont matter. You are contracted to make that load happen. The fact that your going to have to tow it 400 miles to delivery, then tow the truck 400 miles afterwards changes nothing but your ego and your account balance. Responsibilities are still the same.

I'm going to reply and use a couple of three quotes here.

One, Phil, asked, "In what way are you contracted to make that load happen?" That happens when you accept the terms and conditions of the load contract, within the scope of the lease contract. The terms and conditions can vary, but are usually the place and time of the pickup and delivery, which you agree to fulfill. The applicable contract language is usually in the lease contract where is says something along the lines of the Independent Contractor has leased to the Carrier the equipment specified in the contract, and the Independent Contractor is providing the Carrier a fully qualified operator or operators of the Equipment for the purpose of loading, transporting and unloading freight. That part of the lease contract, coupled with the individual load contracts, reflects the responsibilities of delivering the freight.

Next, Cheri stated, "a deal's a deal, and accepting a load means doing everything possible to deliver it as promised," but that's not necessarily true. They key word, and the proper word, is reasonable, rather than possible. This is true of almost all contracts. A thing may be possible to accomplish, but is simply unreasonable to do.

Lastly, Rocketman says circumstances don't matter, yet they absolutely do. They matter in all contracts, actually. Most any contract, and expediting contracts are no different, can be altered or even voided due to circumstances, be those reasonable or unreasonable circumstances.

The reason I used the hypothetical with the the twist is because I have been in precisely that same situation. I was prepared to tow it 400 miles, make the delivery, and then tow it back to be repaired, but of all people, it was the two-headed Evil Empire, and the customer, who reasoned such an effort would be unreasonable. All available options were explored, and it was decided that I stay put, get the van repaired, and then continue on to the delivery. That was a case of a mutually agreed upon change in the contract terms and conditions.

Phils said, "It seems to me that if expediters are obligated to take such a loss on a load, the terms and conditions of the load should be such that the expediter is protected." I'm right there with ya, but unfortunately that's not they way it is.

 

[zorry]

Phil, Lets say you're on a $2.00 per mile load. 400 miles to go. Would you spend $1200 to tow it in to protect your on- time rating ? I guess the question is how much would you spend to protect the on-time rating,and satisfy a customer and an agent ?
Sometimes it costs money to make money.

 

[ATeam]

Phils said, "It seems to me that if expediters are obligated to take such a loss on a load, the terms and conditions of the load should be such that the expediter is protected." I'm right there with ya, but unfortunately that's not they way it is.

Sadly, it is not the way it is because too many expediters do not understand what they are agreeing to when they sign their contracts. Their failure to look out for their own best interests is a weakness known by some carriers and dispatchers that is exploited for the carrier's financial gain. Example, an expediter that is not obligated to pay for a tow to a delivery under his or her contract gets stuck paying for one because the expediter knows no different.

I am not opposed to paying for a tow to a delivery. If Diane and I had an agent that put lots and lots of good freight on our truck, and our truck broke down while on one of those loads, we might, in the interests of good will and maintaining a profitable business relationship, offer to have the truck towed to the delivery at our expense. I'm sure that's what carriers have in mind when they pay for such tows.

 

[ATeam]

Phil, Lets say you're on a $2.00 per mile load. 400 miles to go. Would you spend $1200 to tow it in to protect your on- time rating ? I guess the question is how much would you spend to protect the on-time rating,and satisfy a customer and an agent ?
Sometimes it costs money to make money.

No, I would not pay $1,200 to protect my on-time rating in the circumstances you describe. One late delivery in over 1,000 loads would barely affect our rating. The rating is self-maintained. Landstar does not keep track of such things. So even if the rating suffered, no one would know but Diane and me.

We might pay that amount to satisfy an agent if it was an agent who put many times that amount of profits on our truck. We have served over 30 agents and all of them get our very best. If one became disastisfied because we refused to pay for a tow, we would continue to give our very best to the agents we serve and it would be up to him or her to use or pass us over the next time we showed up as available.

The customer question you ask is a little different since he or she is not my customer directly. If Landstar and the agent were willing to kick in some money to help pay for the tow to satisfy the customer, I might be willing to do the same.

Note that this is a rare circumstance we are talking about (breaking down under load), at least in Diane's and my case. And when it happens, there are several other solutions to consider beyond a tow to the delivery.

Your comment, "It sometimes costs money to make money" is curious since you are at FedEx. That would be the very last place I would agree to pay for a tow to the delivery in the interests of customer service.

We were there for eight years and came to know very few of the customers in a way that they would ask for us if we were available. And even if they did, that was not a request dispatch would typically agree to. If we paid to get towed into them some day or night, no one would remember us as the team that did so, if they learned of it at all. Also, as long as you are in the fleet, it does not matter how good or bad you are. Your truck number comes up with all the others.

There is preferential dispatch in place for certain kinds of trucks but there is nothing in the dispatch system that ID's "good drivers" over bad ones. You might become a hero in your own mind by volunteering to pay for a tow to a delivery, but that would gain you no advantage in the dispatch system that will put important freight on a truck that just yesterday had a driver-negligence service failure that made a customer's line-down situation worse.