Is Obama Involved?

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The buck stops with the President. It would NOT surprise me one bit to find out that this wonderful idea originated from the White House. He is always looking for ways to restrict or outlaw private gun ownership in this country. The more deaths that he can secure the faster he can eliminate our Rights. I pray that congress has the STONES to follow the trail as high as they can. The White House STINKS of rotten fish!



Gun-Running Sting Blows Up: House Hearings on ATF's Fast and Furious

The ATF's Operation Fast and Furious sparked outrage by allowing hundreds of weapons from U.S. gun shops to be trafficked to Mexican drug gangs—and left one border agent dead. With House hearings today, John Solomon exclusively traces the origin of the sting to the Justice Department, which originally denied involvement.

For months, a mystery has engulfed the U.S. southern border and Mexico—what suddenly caused federal agents to abandon years of practice and knowingly let suspected straw buyers for Mexican drug gangs walk off with semiautomatic weapons from American gun shops?

The answer leads to previously undisclosed instructions given by higher-ups inside the Obama Justice Department, which originally denied any role in the burgeoning controversy, The Daily Beast has learned.

The U.S. government's Fast and Furious operation—which was designed to build criminal cases against Mexican gun traffickers but went awry—has stirred debate in two countries after revelations that frontline agents vehemently objected to their supervisors' order to knowingly let guns be trafficked by suspected straw buyers and that hundreds of the guns they were ordered to "let walk" ended up being used in subsequent crimes, including murders.

The issue prompted two investigations in Congress, outrage among Mexican legislators, anger among residents in crime-beleaguered communities on the border—and even forced President Obama to suggest "serious mistakes" may have been made.

Before the gun-running sting began in Phoenix in late 2009, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives agents were trained to build cases quickly against people who were acting as straw buyers, purchasing cheap legal guns at U.S. gun shops and then transferring them to others who would traffic them to Mexican gangs. Agents have told Congress they wanted to interdict weapons quickly when they fell into the hands of suspected straw buyers and despised the idea of "letting guns walk" outside their control.

“The department’s leadership allowed the ATF to implement this flawed strategy, fully aware of what was taking place on the ground,” Grassley and Issa's report concludes.

But ATF supervisors and local federal prosecutors in the Fast and Furious operation approved a different approach in late 2009, specifically instructing agents along the Arizona border not to interdict the weapons and instead to let the straw buyers move the guns into the system in hopes they would show up in crimes on both sides of the border and help federal prosecutors build bigger cases against the Mexican drug gangs.

The operation went on for 15 months, and ATF officials now concede they let more than 1,700 weapons fall into the hands of the straw buyers, with nearly 800 showing up in criminal activity on both sides of the border. Two of those guns were found at the scene where a U.S. border agent was murdered and more than 190 turned up in Mexican crimes as well.

To date, blame has rested mostly with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives supervisors who approved the strategy in Arizona and Washington. The Justice Department also has directed that the tactic of "letting guns walk"—meaning allowing straw buyers to move guns with the government's knowledge—should no longer be used.

But on Wednesday, The Daily Beast has learned, congressional investigators will disclose that just weeks before ATF supervisors approved the Fast and Furious operation and its controversial tactics, senior Justice Department officials sent a memo to prosecutors and agents on the front lines of the border wars urging that they go beyond their traditional tactics of interdicting guns being purchased by straw buyers and try to make cases against the drug gangs themselves.

"Given the national scope of this issue, merely seizing firearms through interdiction will not stop firearms trafficking to Mexico. We must identify, investigate, and eliminate the sources of illegally trafficked firearms and the networks that transport them," the office of then Deputy Attorney General David Ogden wrote in an October 2009 memo marked law-enforcement sensitive.

The memo was prepared in connection with a previously unknown high-level Justice Department meeting in which representatives of key law-enforcement agencies on the front lines of the border wars were summoned to discuss a new approach to combating border violence, according to government officials familiar with the document.

Within days, the memo from Ogden's office was being distributed inside the ATF office in Phoenix, where supervisors quickly launched Operation Fast and Furious.

Government officials confirmed the memo's contents and the discussions about broadening the border strategy beyond interdiction but insisted the memo provided no specific guidance authorizing the specific tactics of letting the guns "walk."

Attorney General Eric Holder has said he did not know about those tactics at the time and has asked the department's internal watchdog, the inspector general, to investigate what happened.

The memo, however, provides important new information and context to the events that have led to a growing controversy in Congress, where Republicans led by Sen. Charles Grassley of Iowa and House Oversight and Government Reform Chairman Darrell Issa have collected extensive evidence that ATF agents vehemently objected to letting the guns walk but were overruled by supervisors, who let hundreds of a weapons a month flow to straw buyers even as violence escalated inside Mexico in 2010.
On Wednesday, Grassley and Issa will release a joint report concluding that Justice officials in Washington were ultimately responsible for letting a well-intentioned gun-trafficking strategy go awry.

"The department's leadership allowed the ATF to implement this flawed strategy, fully aware of what was taking place on the ground," their report concludes, according to an early copy obtained by The Daily Beast.

"This hapless plan allowed the guns in question to disappear out of the agency's view. As a result, this chain of events inevitably placed the guns in the hands of violent criminals. ATF would only see these guns again after they turned up at a crime scene. Tragically, many of these recoveries involved loss of life," the report concludes.

Democrats on Issa's committee and defenders of the Justice Department are expected to mount a technical defense, arguing that pressing law-enforcement officials on the border to try new strategies did not specifically address letting guns walks, a decision that to date appears to have been made by the U.S. Attorneys Office and ATF supervisors in Phoenix, along with ATF officials in Washington.









Gun-Running Sting Blows Up: House Hearings on ATF's Fast and Furious - Yahoo! News
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
I actually touched on this with 2 articles in English Ladys thread here:
http://www.expeditersonline.com/for...onal-report-us-guns-fuel-mexico-violence.html

before it took a turn for the worse....But while everyone here knows I have no use for barry and his minions at all..."Fast and Furious" has its start with a Bush admin program named "Project Gunrunner" back in 2005...it was soon declared by the OIG office to be a failure for the BATFE...BUT while it was scaled back, it wasn't completely dumped...then barry came to the WH and aith him came holder...thats when "Fast and Furious" came to be..really just a rename of the old program, but it was also now used by ATF to save face and pumped up to the degree that it was when the "SHTF" when the border agent from Michigan was killed wth a gun that was traced to the program...but a few things that holder whated the program to do no matter if it was true or not was to show that most if the guns going to mexico were coming from the US gun stores (which was shown to be bs) and tht whie holder and his minions knew what was going on, there never told anyone in Mexico....thats where is stands today...with holder and most everyone in washington from barrys admin dragging their feet, refusing to give testimony and looking to cover their own buts...

Here is a really good article on it and how it was used to make barrys case that most of the guns going into meico were coming from the US:

This article is too long to post here so ths is just part of it, you can finish reading it at the link below.

BATFE/Federal Firearms Law Reform

Project Gunrunner


by James O.E. Norell, Contributing Editor
Posted: 5/18/2011 10:59:49 AM
NRA-ILA :: Project Gunrunner


As the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives continues to resist congressional demands that it explore its reckless operations on the southwest border, Mexican citizens, and even U.S. federal agents, are paying the price—with their very lives.

Until CBS News first aired correspondent Sharyl Attkisson`s continuing blockbuster series on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives` "Fast and Furious" project, very few Americans had a clue that the agency was reportedly "monitoring" individual criminals as they violated federal firearm and smuggling laws.

Through "whistleblowing" by inside-agency critics and journalists, pro-gun Americans have become increasingly suspicious of the fraudulent international "tracing scheme" in the agency. But it wasn`t until the Dec. 14, 2010, death of a 41-year-old federal agent in Arizona that a conscientious segment of the national media was jarred into action.

In the midst of a near-midnight shootout between U.S. Border Patrol Agents patrolling a remote canyon near Nogales, Ariz., and a group of armed Mexican bandits, agent Brian Terry was shot and killed with a single bullet in a hail of 7.62 x 39 gunfire. The border patrol agents, for their part, initially used beanbag rounds against the illegals.

This loss of a federal agent in a beanbag-versus-AK gunfight would have been hugely controversial by itself. But all of that was eclipsed by the fact that one of the guns used by the bandits was traced to a BATFE criminal-observation scheme named "Fast and Furious."

The program got its name from a Hollywood G-man violence fantasy, but it could more accurately have been called "Gone with the Wind."

Fast, Furious And Deadly
Fast and Furious was part of the larger $80 million BATFE Project Gunrunner, touted as a Justice Department answer to Mexican bloodletting. However, Project Gunrunner was the subject of two scathing Justice Department Office of Inspector General (OIG) reports that concluded the project was a waste of taxpayer funds and manpower, and that it had produced no big takedowns of real cartel criminals. Fast and Furious was launched to show that BATFE`s tracing could, after all, lead to big-time busts in Mexico.

But there were a couple of problems. The Mexican authorities were never in on it, and the U.S. Justice Department had little presence across the border.

This article is too long to post here so ths is just part of it, you can finish reading it at the link above.
 
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greg334

Veteran Expediter
Of course he was involved. It is on his watch.

I'm wondering if the people of those border states and the victims of any and all crimes by invaders should not sue Holder, the head of DHS and others under wrongful death in the states where it happened. The head of DHS should resign and so should the head of ATF, and of course Holder.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Of course he was involved. It is on his watch.

I'm wondering if the people of those border states and the victims of any and all crimes by invaders should not sue Holder, the head of DHS and others under wrongful death in the states where it happened. The head of DHS should resign and so should the head of ATF, and of course Holder.


Yes, there is AT LEAST involvement due to the fact that it is "his watch". It is my personal belief that his involvement goes beyond that.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Using that logic would mean he was also involved in Anthony Weiner sending lewd photos of himself and sexting,


No, that logic does not work. One is the actions of a perverted individual and the other is a change in government policy.

Policy of the Justice Department, changes made by an Obama appointee. It is not very likely that Eric Holder would make such a move with Obama knowing and it was most likely done at Obama's direction.
 

xiggi

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
No, that logic does not work. One is the actions of a perverted individual and the other is a change in government policy.

Policy of the Justice Department, changes made by an Obama appointee. It is not very likely that Eric Holder would make such a move with Obama knowing and it was most likely done at Obama's direction.

The quote I replied to had nothing to do with policy, simply the fact he was involved because it was on his watch.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The quote I replied to had nothing to do with policy, simply the fact he was involved because it was on his watch.

I understand, I think.

I guess what I was getting at is that the Department of Justice is controlled by the Executive Branch and congressmen are not.

That would make anything that happens at DOJ, or any other part of the Executive Branch, Obama's responsibility. Which would make the quote "it happened on his watch" correct. As in "the buck stops here" . The person in charge is responsible.
 
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