White House tightening of Mexico border gun rules delayed

[EnglishLady]

PHOENIX (Reuters) – A planned Obama administration clampdown on Mexico border gun dealers which would require them to report multiple assault rifle sales has been delayed by the White House amid stiff opposition from the powerful gun lobby.

The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said last month it would tighten reporting requirements to help agents gather intelligence to target smugglers running high-powered rifles to Mexico, where 30,000 people have been killed in drug cartel violence since 2006.

The measure would require around 8,500 gun dealers in Arizona, California, New Mexico and Texas to report sales of two or more high-powered semi-automatic rifles with detachable magazines to the same person within a five day period

The White House Office of Management and Budget was expected to approve the emergency rule change on Wednesday. But an official with direct knowledge told Reuters that "ATF's information collection request is still under review," and declined further comment until the "deliberative phase is concluded."

Gun control activists said they hoped the delay was just procedural.

"We have been very disappointed with the Obama administration for most of its first two years in office with regard to the gun issue," said Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

"We're hopeful that this is just some standard bureaucratic delay, we haven't heard anything to the contrary," he added.

The move to boost ATF's ability to target gun traffickers comes as Mexican authorities are struggling to contain raging drug violence south of the border, where shootouts, beheadings and torture killings are a daily occurrence.

About 90 percent of the crime guns seized and traced in Mexico last year were initially sold in the United States, according to ATF. Investigators say around three-quarters of traces lead back to sales in the four states flanking the U.S. border.

This "iron river" of firearms flowing south to the drug cartels includes high powered Kalashnikov and AR-15 rifles toted by cartel hitmen across Mexico, and decorative .38 caliber pistols popular with drug kingpins.

GUN CONTROL BATTLE

The initiative requiring border states' gun dealers to report multiple long gun sales is shaping up as the toughest Obama administration battle with the powerful U.S. gun lobby.

Obama and the government of Mexican President Felipe Calderon have ramped up cooperation in recent months to curb drug smuggling north over the southwest border, and seize flows of cash and guns south to Mexico.

The policy being sought by ATF is backed by the Brady Campaign as a common-sense measure alerting law enforcement to multiple purchases of guns that could end up arming drug cartel hit men.

"Dealers are already required to report multiple sales of handguns and this is just implementing the same thing for long guns," Helmke told Reuters.

"It shouldn't be that much more of a burden on anyone in terms of paperwork and data collection, and it could help save lives ... It seems like a measure that should be fairly noncontroversial," he added.

But the powerful National Rifle Association, which lobbies tirelessly for gun rights, has slammed the Obama administration for using Mexican cartel violence as a pretext to impose registration on gun sales.

"This is just a shallow excuse to engage in a sweeping firearms registration scheme," NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre said in a post splashed on the group's website last month.

"The NRA will do everything in its power to stop these 'emergency requirements' from taking effect," he added

 

[Poorboy]

PHOENIX (Reuters) – A planned Obama administration clampdown on Mexico border gun dealers which would require them to report multiple assault rifle sales has been delayed by the White House amid stiff opposition from the powerful gun lobby.

The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said last month it would tighten reporting requirements to help agents gather intelligence to target smugglers running high-powered rifles to Mexico, where 30,000 people have been killed in drug cartel violence since 2006.

The measure would require around 8,500 gun dealers in Arizona, California, New Mexico and Texas to report sales of two or more high-powered semi-automatic rifles with detachable magazines to the same person within a five day period

The White House Office of Management and Budget was expected to approve the emergency rule change on Wednesday. But an official with direct knowledge told Reuters that "ATF's information collection request is still under review," and declined further comment until the "deliberative phase is concluded."

Gun control activists said they hoped the delay was just procedural.

"We have been very disappointed with the Obama administration for most of its first two years in office with regard to the gun issue," said Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

"We're hopeful that this is just some standard bureaucratic delay, we haven't heard anything to the contrary," he added.

The move to boost ATF's ability to target gun traffickers comes as Mexican authorities are struggling to contain raging drug violence south of the border, where shootouts, beheadings and torture killings are a daily occurrence.

About 90 percent of the crime guns seized and traced in Mexico last year were initially sold in the United States, according to ATF. Investigators say around three-quarters of traces lead back to sales in the four states flanking the U.S. border.

This "iron river" of firearms flowing south to the drug cartels includes high powered Kalashnikov and AR-15 rifles toted by cartel hitmen across Mexico, and decorative .38 caliber pistols popular with drug kingpins.

GUN CONTROL BATTLE

The initiative requiring border states' gun dealers to report multiple long gun sales is shaping up as the toughest Obama administration battle with the powerful U.S. gun lobby.

Obama and the government of Mexican President Felipe Calderon have ramped up cooperation in recent months to curb drug smuggling north over the southwest border, and seize flows of cash and guns south to Mexico.

The policy being sought by ATF is backed by the Brady Campaign as a common-sense measure alerting law enforcement to multiple purchases of guns that could end up arming drug cartel hit men.

"Dealers are already required to report multiple sales of handguns and this is just implementing the same thing for long guns," Helmke told Reuters.

"It shouldn't be that much more of a burden on anyone in terms of paperwork and data collection, and it could help save lives ... It seems like a measure that should be fairly noncontroversial," he added.

But the powerful National Rifle Association, which lobbies tirelessly for gun rights, has slammed the Obama administration for using Mexican cartel violence as a pretext to impose registration on gun sales.

"This is just a shallow excuse to engage in a sweeping firearms registration scheme," NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre said in a post splashed on the group's website last month.

"The NRA will do everything in its power to stop these 'emergency requirements' from taking effect," he added

What good will that do? All the dummies in Washington would have to do is Seal the border like they are supposed to do and that would eliminate most of these weapons from crossing over!

 

[EnglishLady]

What good will that do? All the dummies in Washington would have to do is Seal the border like they are supposed to do and that would eliminate most of these weapons from crossing over!

Why don't you think this is a good idea? Remember I am still learning the US way... so be nice

 

[Turtle]

It really won't do any good, tho. Any idea how many crimes have been prevented thanks to mandatory registration of handguns? None. Any idea how many crimes have been solved thanks to having handguns registered? None. Any idea how many guns will be prevented from flowing south if rifles bought from border dealers are registered? None.

The "iron river" of guns flowing south won't be cut off by requiring border dealers to report multiple sales. Securing the borders would, tho. If border dealers are required to report gun sales, then gun buyers will simply buy their guns a little farther away from the border.

This is putting a Band-Aid on an open border wound.

And, of course, there's also that pesky little "...the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed," thing in the Constitution that liberals want to pretend isn't in there because they don't understand what "infringe" means.

 

[Poorboy]

Why don't you think this is a good idea? Remember I am still learning the US way... so be nice

Be Nice? Be Nice? Lol
Ok I'll be nice, Please read Turtles post on top of this one because he hit the nail right square on the head

 

[EnglishLady]

Be Nice? Be Nice? Lol
Ok I'll be nice, Please read Turtles post on top of this one because he hit the nail right square on the head

Why thank you kind Sir.

I did indeed read Mr Turtle's post and it explained a lot.

My thanks to you both

 

[aristotle]

Individuals with criminal intent do not have difficulty purchasing guns in the United States. It is legal for a private sale to take place between two people, totally bypassing the gun dealer route. Also, many states such as Kentucky allow the legal sale of firearms at open air flea markets. These sales are not registered. The Founding Fathers wanted an armed citizenry as a safeguard against tyrannical government. Guns smuggled into Mexico can most likely be traced back to a myriad of locations near and far in relation to the US/Mexican border.

Of course, there are numerous restrictions applying to the private sale of firearms, but those with criminal intent aren't going to comply.

 

[chefdennis]

The biggest reason for this not to happen other than what has already been stated here is that the numbers that are being thrown around by the Mexican pres and barry that 90% of the guns in Mexico come from the US is BS....

This article makes the point very well and there are also numerous articles that point the the guns coming in from countries on the Southern Mexican border as well as from overseas..most being purchased in bulk by the drug cartels....

Oh and theose drug cartels are well known to be using "Fully Automatic" weapons that can not be bought here in the US without a Fed issued Firearms Stamp held by the buyer and most gun shops do not even have the ability to sell "full auto" weapons...


Yet Again, Media Exaggerates Scale of Gun Smuggling from U.S. Into Mexico | The Foundry: Conservative Policy News.

Yet Again, Media Exaggerates Scale of Gun Smuggling from U.S. Into Mexico

Posted December 13th, 2010 at 4:00pm

The Washington Post today ran a lengthy front-page story headlined “As Mexico drug violence runs rampant, U.S. guns tied to crime south of border.” The title pretty much sums it up: the Post states that an “unprecedented number of American guns [are flowing] to the murderous drug cartels across the border” and that this is fueling the violent battle between drug runners and the Mexican government.

Of course, one reason that battle has turned violent is because the Mexican government of Felipe Calderon is trying, for the first time, to crack down on the gangs, who – not surprisingly – are fighting back. The writ of the Mexican state has never run throughout Mexico, and it has often been undermined by corruption. The U.S. has much to gain from Calderon’s efforts, and it is in no way a criticism of Calderon to point out that violence in Mexico is driven by Mexican causes, and must find a Mexican solution.
Similarly, to the extent that there is gun running across the border from the U.S. into Mexico – and it certainly does exist – this, like the illegal immigrants that cross the other way, is a testimony to the fact that neither the U.S. nor Mexico controls the border. It would be a wonderful thing if U.S. newspapers, and politicians, campaigned as vigorously for border control as they do for gun control.

Sadly, the Post ignores the Mexican context, and sticks to the tried and true role of blaming the United States for Mexico’s problems. It breathlessly reports that twelve U.S. gun dealers “have had double-digit traces of ‘crime guns’ to their stores from Mexico.” That does not get us very far: ten is a “double-digit” number of traces. The Post singles out one gun dealer who, it claims, has had “more than 115 guns from his stores” seized in the past two years in Mexico. That is about one gun seized every week in all of Mexico.

To back up its assertion that the U.S. is the source of most of Mexico’s guns (“statistics . . . show that 80 to 90 percent of the weapons seized in Mexico are first sold in the United States”), the Post cites the claim that “Federal authorities say that more than 60,000 U.S. guns of all types have been recovered in Mexico in the past four years.” This is a wild exaggeration. The Post is referring to an oft-cited U.S. Government Accountability Office study which shows that, of the guns seized in Mexico and given to the ATF for tracing from 2004 through 2008, approximately 87 percent originated in the U.S.

But this number says nothing about the percentage of guns seized in Mexico that originated in the U.S., because the U.S. does not trace – because they are not of U.S. origin, and so are not submitted by Mexican authorities to the U.S. for tracing – the majority of guns seized in Mexico. According to the GAO, the number of guns seized in Mexico that have been traced back to the U.S. has ranged from 5,260 in 2005 to 1,950 in 2006 to 3,060 in 2007 to 6,700 in 2008. That is a total of about 17,000, nowhere close to 60,000.

There really should not be any dispute about this. It is not an argument about policy. It is about nothing more, or less, than who can look up a number in a government publication more accurately. To its credit, the Post does give the National Rifle Association space for rebuttal, but it leaves the impression that “the gun lobby” is simply trying to defend a long-discredited position. The reality is that, if 60,000 guns – or 75,000, as President Calderon said in May – have been seized in Mexico in recent years, less than a third have been traced back to the U.S.

Amazingly, the Post even acknowledges that “most guns seized in Mexico [are] not traced.” If that is so, then it is obviously impossible to know what proportion of guns came from the United States. As Jess T. Ford, the GAO’s Director of International Affairs and Trade, put it when he testified before the House in 2009, “is impossible to know how many firearms are illegally trafficked into Mexico in a given year.” By acknowledging the limited scope of Mexican tracing, the Post destroys the creditability of its claim that the vast majority of guns seized in Mexico come from the U.S.

The Post, at least, spares its readers another round of praise for CIFTA, the Inter-American Convention Against the Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, Ammunition, Explosives, and Other Related Materials. That is a relief, because CIFTA is a bad treaty for a great many reasons. But make no mistake: these sorts of stories are part of an ongoing effort to secure CIFTA’s ratification by persuading the American public, and U.S. Senators, that CIFTA will cure Mexico’s ills. Fortunately, the Senate seems in no mood to go along. But that does not stop the treaty’s supporters from trying. It would, though, be nice if they could at least look up the numbers accurately.

 

[LDB]

It isn't just guns. Most liberals and some conservatives believe you can solve a problem by legislating against objects. You can't solve any problem legislating against inanimate objects unless and until the inanimate objects obtain the power to act on their own independent of any human interaction.

From now until then you solve problems by legislating against those who misuse and abuse inanimate objects in a manner so HARSH that all but the very few would never violate the law due to the FEAR of the consequences.

There are over 26,000 gun laws already. That isn't the solution but IGNORANT MORONS like our PRO politicians (Pelosi, Reid, Obama) are exponentially dumber than dirt and can't figure this out.

 

[Poorboy]

Just wondering as to just how many of those "Illegal" guns were bought in the US for the mexican police and Mexican Military who turned around and sold them to the Gangsta's?