How about a shotgun?

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
My suggestion is to ask a DOT cop what a concealed weapon is, and whether you're able to keep an unloaded shotgun in the truck.
The DOT's opinion on the matter is irrelevant. It's a law enforcement issue. (Yes, I know the DOT are considered law enforcement in some states).
Again, I contend that you can. Either a shotgun or rifle is legal to transport in a truck.
There's the Federal Firearms Owner's Protection Act, which guarantees your right to transport an UNLOADED firearm from a place it's legal to another place it's legal, as long as it's inaccessible to the driver and separate from the ammunition. From Wikipedia:
"Safe Passage" provision

One of the law's provisions was that persons traveling from one place to another cannot be incarcerated for a firearms offense in a state that has strict gun control laws if the traveler is just passing through (short stops for food and gas) and the firearms and ammunition are not immediately accessible, unloaded and, in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment, in a locked container.[6]
An example of this would be that someone driving from Virginia to a competition in Vermont with a locked hard case containing an unloaded handgun and a box of ammunition in the trunk could not be prosecuted in New Jersey or New York City for illegal possession of a handgun provided that they did not stop in New Jersey or New York for an extended period of time.)

That, of course, would make it useless in an emergency.


Carry of a loaded firearm in a vehicle, including a rifle or shotgun, varies state to state. I no longer live in Nebraska, so it might have changed, but when I did, it was unlawful to carry a loaded shotgun in a vehicle. The explanation I was given was that a shotgun would give you more firepower than the police. The state sees that as a bad thing, unfortunately. I was an armored car guard at the time, and we had two of them in the truck all the time. (Cue Judas Priest: "Breaking the law! Breaking the law!")

I have no idea how many states ban shotguns in vehicles, but more than a few, I'd guess, and those that don't ban them have differing laws on how they may be carried.

As has been pointed out, keeping it visible will all but guarantee that you'll be an ex-shotgun owner after you leave your truck or van
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Looks like I stirred up that kettle of fish pretty good.

Guns are one of the topics that are guaranteed to produce a large number of spirited replies in this Open Forum. Another is pee. Ask truckers about guns or pee and they will go on and on.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Well there ya go. Fill a squirt gun with pee and all your problems are solved.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Waterfowl hunters are required to use non-toxic shot to hunt with. Are squirt gun owners required to use non-toxic pee?

Regardless how you look at it, the non-toxic shot is toxic to the ducks and geese.

How much lead has there been introduced into the environment through hunting?
 

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
How many gun fights have drivers been in out here anyway. If there was a gun fight, the lawyers are the ones coming out on top, yep, thats the part u never hear about,,the fees to lawyers.:D
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Regardless how you look at it, the non-toxic shot is toxic to the ducks and geese.

How much lead has there been introduced into the environment through hunting?


Shot fired at waterfowl CAN be fatal, assuming the person shooting is good. That is not the same as toxic.

It is the the amount, as in tonage, that has been introduced it is the size and shape of the pellets as well as the concentration of those pellet is certain areas. Lead toxicity killed a lot of waterfowl AND birds of prey that in turn consumed the dead or dieing birds. As to the amount, over that past 400 years or so the tonage would be quite high.

I would prefer to use gold for shot, but, since people think shiny is important, they continue to drive up the price of an other wise useless metal.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
I would prefer to use gold for shot, but, since people think shiny is important, they continue to drive up the price of an other wise useless metal.

While gold is used in jewlery and as an investment, it also has properties that make it useful in a number of medical, industrial and electronic applications. There is a large demand worldwide for gold so used.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
While gold is used in jewlery and as an investment, it also has properties that make it useful in a number of medical, industrial and electronic applications. There is a large demand worldwide for gold so used.


Yeah, I know.I was just more or less goofing off. It would make GREAT non-toxic shot. Same softness and density as lead. Far better than any of the non-toxic shot that is out there now. I am aware of the REAL applications it has, they are somewhat limited, but often VERY important. Jewelry is just a "pretty" of no real use and as an investment, it is as I said before. Only because some people THINK it is really worth something. In reality, steel has far more uses than gold.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
It is the the amount, as in tonage, that has been introduced it is the size and shape of the pellets as well as the concentration of those pellet is certain areas. Lead toxicity killed a lot of waterfowl AND birds of prey that in turn consumed the dead or dieing birds. As to the amount, over that past 400 years or so the tonage would be quite high.

I would agree with you but there really isn't any proof in lead of itself is the cause of a demise of any bird or anything else for that matter. 400 years is not the time line we should even consider, between population growth of the 20th century, the introduction of chemicals in the 50's and a need to utilize modern farming seems to be more relevant than the previous 360 years.

What I mean is that if this was the case, the issue would have been at its greatest problem in the early and mid part of the 20th century where there were little control on what people did or used. Maybe it would have been a case where the amount of shot used would not have been great but the introduction of lead into the environment would have had an impact over the 40 something years before the advent of strict licensing and controls on hunters/screwing landowners and the environmentalist movement under TR.

In all honesty, any improvements made to the environment may very well be about other chemicals in the environment which now are strictly controlled or eliminated altogether - like some of the fertilizers and pest control chemicals.

AND after studying the effects of fallout in my university days, I have a strong opinion that a lot of what we saw in environmental damage from the 50's through the 70's was not caused by anything but the fallout of above ground nuke testing done from 1946 to 1962 where about 100 detonations done in Nevada alone and about 300 tests done world wide by the United States. In addition to these above ground surface detonations, there were some atmospheric test detonations taking place that actually would have caused more of an issue because of the distance and manner they detonated the warheads. THIS does not include the Soviets, French and Brits test detonations.

The fallout, which I won't get into details, has affected everyone of us regardless what the science community has said because a lot of them have yet to be funded by private entities hence maybe their funding is tied to what they say?

But I digress ...

For example, DDT is one issue that seems to be more of a victim than a real issue for us. Without DDT, human life has been at a higher risk and even at the peak usage of it, it seems that we haven't had our environment destroy as many have predicted. Carson's book were not all based on credible science and even when it was, there was a twisting of facts to fit an agenda. DDT has not left our ecosystem, it is still present in many areas of the great lakes, as is a large number of Chemicals (for example in the Saginaw bay where Dow dumped a lot of nasty stuff), but the last I heard we have still a lot of bird, too many geese and really too many rodents on hooves running around with a growing population, even though the presence of DDT still being out there.

I can't help but wonder where people's priorities are, I mean isn't eradicating things like Mosquito carried malaria or other pathogens that are carried by insects a hell of a lot more important than say duck populations for hunters?

I think animals evolve to their enviorment, chemicals are no different than changes in weather or what ever you can think of and even though many will scream at this or that being a great idea to stop using this or that to save the environment, not one of them can come up with any specific reasoning behind why one species is suffering or what makes another die off.
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
How many gun fights have drivers been in out here anyway. If there was a gun fight, the lawyers are the ones coming out on top, yep, thats the part u never hear about,,the fees to lawyers.:D
Came within a fraction of a second once, pressure being applied to the trigger when he decided to be a good boy and put the knife away. No lawyers were enriched that day.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
How do you figure that a lawyer would be on top?

Most likely because the guy with the weapon shooting the other guy with a knife won't be able to afford a good lawyer and if he has one, chances are he can't practice in the state where it happened, so he will end up with a public defender who may or may not be paid well, so the only lawyer who may end up on top is the guy/gal prosecuting the case.

This brings up another reason why not to have a weapon in the truck, the legal issues when you go to court. Even if you have a lawyer, you will need a criminal lawyer and one who works in the state. Sometimes that is BIG money so ... think about it.
 

Mdbtyhtr

Expert Expediter
Greg
With all do respect, the lawyer would also be used for the civil suit, by the defendant if he lives and by his family if he doesn't. Some of you know me and what I do for a living. Although I am licensed to carry as working permits in several states, not to be confused with personal protection carry permits, I don't. If I am going after someone that is so dangerous that I would not attempt to apprehend him unarmed, I do my investigation and request local Law for back up. That does not guarantee that I get it, but it is another step in a use of force continuum.

The other side of the story...There is not enough money in the world that can stop a bullet after it leaves a gun, there is no do overs, when it is done, it is done. You have to live with that for the rest of your life. Machismo aside, that can and does ruin people, relationships and often leads to suicide. Castle Doctrine aside, I would utilize all manner of retreat available to take myself out of a life threatening situation first, and use deadly force as a last resort, and do so well enough that there is no second side to the story.

Scott
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Scott,
I get this;

"With all do respect, the lawyer would also be used for the civil suit, by the defendant if he lives and by his family if he doesn't."

But not arguing with the premise that a lawyer can do a lot of things, the problem is the lawyer and their level of confidence. A lot of lawyers don't seem to think that they are capable of litigation with a lot of civil and criminal matters if they only deal with business matters but they can.

My point is that every event and incident is unique and the risk one takes on the legal front may be too great to justify the use of a weapon like a shotgun.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
Greg you do realize that there ad law firms and organizations that specialize in lawsutis that involve a person using a firearm in that persons defence of his life.....
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
One of the truths that most new firearm enthusiasts don't learn until later is that even if you're legally in the clear to open fire in your particular place, time, and circumstances, is that you're STILL liable for where every bullet goes. Someone breaks into your home with a weapon and obvious malice aforethought, and you defend your family but in doing so, a couple rounds go through the wall and kill a guy next door. Guess who's going down for that. Sometimes it's hard convincing someone of that.
 
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