Sorry for this long post and format but I can't keep track of it for some reason.
Originally Posted by greg334
Sorry Letzrock but this is the funniest thing I have heard today. I know what you meant but that's not really ture. The us vs them thing is really a US thing it doesn't happen over seas much.
Maybe not by your definition, but it does happen, even more so overseas. In other countries people are just resigned to it.
My definition has zero to do with it, it is the definition of sociologist and other academia that has been long established that this is all about.
The culture, the exact social make up of a country is something that is defined by that country. The people are not always reserved to an ideology (like Iran) or a form oath to a king, dictator or government (like Germany).
Most people due to their culture don't know any better, they have gone through like their forefathers in past centuries not concern with improving themselves in life but living the life they feel are part of their destiny.
Originally Posted by greg334
Here we have a problem where our country was build and been successful on the single fact that we did away with classes
Not hardly.. Oppression is everywhere, always has been.
Oppression is not everywhere unless everyone wants it to be that way. We are seeing in this country, as country who has overcome real problems, a return to separatism and nationalism in a racial form. No where else can someone claim to be oppressed and actually be better off than someone who is actually oppressed. I saw real oppression, where it is based on a tribe you belong to or a religion, here we have nothing like it and not one person in this country can claim to be truly oppressed because they all have equal opportunity to better themselves within the confines of their ability.
Originally Posted by greg334
someone who is born dirt poor can and often did climb the ladder of success (I don't mean A-Team's version) - Andrew Carnegie is one such example.
This too is true, though it doesn't have anything to do with one person looking down (or up) on another.
In other countries it does. For example in France until very recently, you couldn't start a business without the governments permission and that depended on who you are. In Italy, the EU doesn't allow farmers to be farmers and you can't move into another business because you are a farmer.
Originally Posted by greg334
In Europe they didn't have that, you were born in property and unless some miracle happened, you died in poverty. Even in the most progressive parts of Europe, it still is like it was in the 19th century.
agreed.
OK....
Originally Posted by greg334
You do know that if you look at the most successful business men and women in Europe or Asia, they come from elite background, where the family was connected or had money. Especially in Germany, people don't make millions on an idea as easiely we they do here and that is the reason why they end up here.
Money breeds more money
Not all the time. Money breed taxes over there. Money breed contempt and suspicion in a society where class is part of the culture.
Originally Posted by greg334
Maybe you don't know this but the UAW and others unions claim that they made the middle class and put workers first, which isn't true. Long before the UAW and other unions, there were people like Carnegie and Ford, Durant and Dodge, and a whole bunch more that actually lifted people up out of poverty. Back then there wasn't a class issue, the unions made it one to sell themselves to the people, convince them of false dreams.
Money attracts swindlers
Well it depends on who you are talking about, the people who took a chance and built companies that employed people or the union leaches that used the workers as their own bank?
Originally Posted by greg334
The really d*mn sad thing about the ignorance of the American people is that since they have elected their messiah and in many ways we are a truly divided country, we are destroying the very thing that makes the country work for them, the poor and middle class - the fact that we didn't have classes and had mobility within the society.
Yes. The 2 party system has created that. The friction that was supposed to be created by 2 factions to hammer out ideas has eroded into a "he said she said", without any real substance being debated. A microcosm of that very theory is demonstrated in this forum all day long...
This class warfare is not about the 2 party system, it is about the ignorance of the people, making sure that the ignorance propagates through society and ensuring that there are classes that feed off of each other to establish and grow power. The repubs and for the most part dems didn't give the country this, progressives and European thought that entrenched itself in the latter part of the 19th century did. It was a long line of people in our government who saw anew way of empowering themselves to satify their egos, Teddy Roosevelt was one, Wilson was another. See it is about looking at my neighbor and not having enough integrity and fortitude to prevent jealousy and emotion from taking over my senses. It is all about the haves and have nots as defined by the people who have disdain and contempt for me, the worker.
