Sorry Turtle

DougTravels

Not a Member
My point Layout, was strictly about your perception of "the values America was founded upon" may be a little tarnished. I agree with you, I also hunt and fish and don't want my rights violated. I just disagree strongly with you that this new administration is really concerned with taking away our rights. In fact it was the last administration that scared the heck outta me. Don't worry Obama is not going to take your Duck gun or your Deer Rifle away.

As far as post 15, it is uncalled for, out of line. disrespectful, and totally hilarious! I Loved it! Mainly because I believe it was only pulling your chain a little.

Can I ask you one very serious question Layout, Now think before you answer:





Are you an internet nutjob?

I'm kidding with you if it don't read that way.
Take care and pad that cell hehe;)DougTravels
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
No, I am NOT an internet nut job. I am an internet CRACK pot!! Can't you tell the difference? You must be goofy if you can't.

You see, I do believe that Obama will attempt to curtail our rights, I believe that it can be proven but it really is no longer worth the effort. Too many are just willing to be cared for now.

I lived in a socialist nation for 5 years and seen the results. Enforced laziness, poor production, poor quality and little internal manufacturing. I don't want that here.

I truley wish that I had access to much of the history and first had papers that I used to work with on a daily basis. It scared the pants off of me. (not a pretty site I promise you)
I do see EXACTLY the same things happening here that happened in pre=WW2 Germany and early Soviet Russia.

The problem is two fold, few are really taught history as it happened, for many reasons, and people in general NEVER believe that it can AND will happen again. That is why it always does.

Layoutshooter
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Layout said,,,
I lived in a socialist nation for 5 years and seen the results. Enforced laziness, poor production, poor quality and little internal manufacturing. I don't want that here.

Since you consider Canada sort of socialist...the only quality i am aware of is Enforced Laziness aka the welfare mentality! The Entitlement bunch...What I call the Welfare bums that are professional mooches...and its generational....One generation teaches the next how to sponge. How to live off hand outs.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
There is the "bum" factor to be sure, that is why I use the term, Obama Bum. That is not what I meant. What I was talking about, and did not make clear, was the effect of the crippeling taxes on production and work ethics. I will use one of the people that I fished with when I lived in England. He was a silversmith, jewelerly designer and maker. He was very good at his trade even doing work for members of the royal family. I don't remember the exact amount of income but once he hit that for the week, even if it was a Monday, he shut down his business till the following week. Why would he do that? Once he made that much 98% of everything he made after that went to the government. He saw no use in working to supply hand outs to bums. He stated that he hated not be allowed to earn a real living. That the tax system was desinged to keep people in thier place with no chance of advancing. That is what I mean by ENFORCED laziness. Layouthsooter
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
There is the "bum" factor to be sure, that is why I use the term, Obama Bum. That is not what I meant. What I was talking about, and did not make clear, was the effect of the crippeling taxes on production and work ethics. I will use one of the people that I fished with when I lived in England. He was a silversmith, jewelerly designer and maker. He was very good at his trade even doing work for members of the royal family. I don't remember the exact amount of income but once he hit that for the week, even if it was a Monday, he shut down his business till the following week. Why would he do that? Once he made that much 98% of everything he made after that went to the government. He saw no use in working to supply hand outs to bums. He stated that he hated not be allowed to earn a real living. That the tax system was desinged to keep people in thier place with no chance of advancing. That is what I mean by ENFORCED laziness. Layouthsooter

Oh yes the taxman...

When I worked at Firestone we would usually not work more then 8 hours of OT...after that the tax rate jumped to something like 58% of the gross...yuck...even though at the end of the year we'd get a nice fat refund check because we over paid....that wasn't the point...We wanted the money now not in a years time....
And Union dues from the Rubber workers had NO cap....and that wasn't refundable...it was ridiculous what we paid them bums...
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
As stated before, even ultra-liberals like the "Beatles" got "bugged" :D by the taxman. Remember the song? You just gotta like that one!!! :p Layoutshooter
 

DougTravels

Not a Member
No, I am NOT an internet nut job. I am an internet CRACK pot!! Can't you tell the difference? You must be goofy if you can't.

You see, I do believe that Obama will attempt to curtail our rights, I believe that it can be proven but it really is no longer worth the effort. Too many are just willing to be cared for now.

I lived in a socialist nation for 5 years and seen the results. Enforced laziness, poor production, poor quality and little internal manufacturing. I don't want that here.

I truley wish that I had access to much of the history and first had papers that I used to work with on a daily basis. It scared the pants off of me. (not a pretty site I promise you)
I do see EXACTLY the same things happening here that happened in pre=WW2 Germany and early Soviet Russia.

The problem is two fold, few are really taught history as it happened, for many reasons, and people in general NEVER believe that it can AND will happen again. That is why it always does.

Layoutshooter

You believe obama will attempt to curtail your rights. Why not save your rage and your "locked and loaded" mentality till it happens.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Because sir, the idea is to PREVENT it from happening, just as the idea of a strong and ready military will PREVENT us from being attacked. IF, and I say IF, what I fear is going to happen does, it will cause many many deaths. I don't want to see that. That is what has happened throughout history when this type of tryanny has taken over a country.

The fundemental difference between Obama and his ilk and me is: I believe that the individual is far more suited to decide thier own fate than the government is. That each person is able, through thier own efforts, can and will overcome any obstical placed in front of them. The "left" or "liberals" or what ever don't believe that. They feel that they are the "elite thinkers" that they should be able to, because they are better, "help" the masses since they are for the most part unable to help themselfs.

The "Left" has always been ready to use what ever means they can, like concentration camps, mass murder, gulags etc to achieve thier means. You, to achieve this "utipia" have to remove those who don't agree with or who really are able to fend for themselfs.

We have been headed down a very dangerous path in this country for many many years. A path that takes away personal responsibility and replaces it with custodial care from a "Benevolent" government. We, for what ever reason as a people, seem willing to give up rights and protections for the "easy way". We have lost the drive to overcome. We forget that with freedom comes the chance to suceed or fail. That both sucess and failure are good if you use them to your advantage. We want easy now and if our "Friends" in government can do that for us, so what if we give up our freedom, it is now easy.

What you see from me is not so much rage as resolve. I believe that the answer to our problems DO NOT come from government but from the people. The ingenuity, the cleverness and the sheer drive of the American people need to be turned loose. Government is either the cause of or at least amplifies every problem, or challenge as I see them, that we face today as a nation. Take away the Right, the freedoms and you destroy that amazing ability that the American people possess. Life without freedom is not life, it is only exsistance. More like crusing while waiting to die.

Just as a salmon that battles it's way up heavy currents for the prize of reproducing, it is only through struggle that man can achieve his full potential. That is the most incideous idea of the "Left". They promise to remove the struggle.

I choose struggle and freedom. If you don't, that is your choice, not mine. I cannot be forced into it or anything that I don't like. Once we give up our freedom it is very unlikely that it will ever be regained and IF we do ever regain it, it will be at great cost. Again, the idea is to AVOID the problem, NOT fight it after the fact.

Layoutshooter
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
You believe obama will attempt to curtail your rights. Why not save your rage and your "locked and loaded" mentality till it happens.

Because by the standards of others, it is already happening. Like others who have claimed Bush took away the rights of people, the same argument can be made with Obama but with some concrete certainty that it has already happened. Just through the 'bailouts' we have had our rights to govern through our representiatives damaged, look at what has actually been allowed to happen, GM has been dictated to by the president of the US something would never happen if we were not so passive and something that sets all of us up for a very hard time getting government out of our lives.

As for the Constitution, you seem to think that it was created with a bunch of good ol' boys hanging around the checker board drinkin' shine on a Saturday night coming up with something that was only intended to protect their interest - WRONG.

The Consitution can be changed but it is setup for us to make sure we are sure that we want it changed. There are problems with some of the more recent amendments, 17th, 23rd and 26th amendment have had a bad impact on our rights.

I won't get into the rest.....
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
...GM has been dictated to by the president of the US something would never happen if we were not so passive...
While the president has no business getting involved in the personnel rosters of corporations, by the same token GM could have turned the money down. The term "dictated" is a little skewed, I think.

GM could use a dictator, though, at least for a while. Someone who can cut through all the red tape and git r dun without having to be second guessed by squabbling board members, shareholders and whiny union members. If that means consolidating facilities, reincorporating Delphi instead of subsidizing them, slashing wages and benefits to bring them more in line with the marketplace, so be it. Git r dun, and git r dun now. Otherwise, they'll be flailing around in an abyss of bureaucratic procedural red tape and in a year, maybe two, they'll end up filing Chapter 11 anyway.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The govenment needs to get out of the way as well. Un-funded manadates and stupid regulatons are hurting industry as much as poor managment and the whiny union members. It is very much a group effort that is hurting industry. Layoutshooter
 
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