Who would make the best Commander In Chief ?

[macmov]

so if Obama is too green in your eyes. Then you favor McBush? There is self admitted "no experience with the economy" there.

Ask yourself this:
When President Clinton passed his deficit reduction package (with no Republican votes), the DOW was around 3300. Two years after passage, the DOW was around 5500. When President Clinton left office, the DOW was around 11000.
After 7 years of Republican debt and deficits, the DOW is around 12000.

So let's see - was your 401K better off under Democratic policies or Republican policies?

McCain voted against discouraging predatory lending practices. In 2005, McCain voted against an amendment prohibiting law-breaking high-cost predatory mortgage lenders from collecting funds from homeowners who are forced into bankruptcy court. [S. 256, 3/03/05]

– McCain failed to vote on bill to overhaul mortgage lending practices of FHA.In 2007, McCain failed to vote on passage of a bill that would overhaul the mortgage lending practices of the Federal Housing Administration (FHA). The bill would reduce the required minimum down payment for an FHA-insured loan and simplify its calculation, requiring a flat 1.5 percent of the appraised value of the home. [S. 2338, 12/14/07]

– McCain failed to sign on to the Predatory Lending Consumer Protection Act. In 2003, McCain failed to add his name to this legislation, which was intended to "protect consumers against predatory practices." The bill, which was endorsed by a host of civil rights and housing advocates, including the U.S. Conference of Mayors, ACORN, and the Consumer Federation of America. [S. 1928, 11/21/03]

– McCain failed to sign on to Truth in Lending Act. Less than four months ago, McCain failed to sign on to this bipartisan initiative providing protection to consumers taking out home mortgage loans. Among other measures, it was designed to "establish new lending standards to ensure that loans are affordable and fair." McCain also refused to co-sponsor this legislation in the 107th Congress as well. [S. 2452, 12/12/2007]
It's deeply troubling that John McCain is suggesting that the best way to address the housing crisis is to sit back and watch it happen – which is just further evidence that he would continue President Bush's failed economic policies. Barack Obama believes that the job of a president is to lead—and that's why he'll work to help struggling homeowners and lenders rework existing subprime loans into affordable long-term fixed loans, create a foreclosure prevention fund to help keep Americans in their homes, close the bankruptcy loophole for mortgage companies, provide a tax credit for the interest on new mortgages, fight mortgage fraud at every level, and require that borrowers have access to accurate information about their mortgage options.

And lest we forget ... McCain has a long and sordid history of worrying more about the financial welfare of the savings and loan institutions at the expense of the depositors. Democrats should school themselves to remind the public of this every time McCain, the economy, regulation and the mortgage crisis is brought up in the months ahead.
The mainstream media ask Obama why he doesn't wear a flag pin, but they aren't asking McCain why he doesn't release his medical records. McCain, who would be the oldest man ever elected president, had surgery for melanoma, a potentially fatal skin cancer, eight years ago - the scar is still prominent on his face. He has promised several times to release the records, but each release has been postponed.
It makes you wonder: is there something in McCain's medical records that he doesn't want you to know?

McBush has the answers...
Iraq....lets stay the course and see what happens.
Economy....lets stay the course and see what happens.

4 more years for sure...the only difference is we won't have to hear about his bike riding.

 

[greg334]

so if Obama is too green in your eyes. Then you favor McBush? There is self admitted "no experience with the economy" there.

NO I don’t like McCain but I also know that a socialist is not the right person for the country. We are at a cross roads, the two major parties are disintegrating as I type and there is no leadership in the country between the two. Put the two in a bag, shake them up and dump them out and you can’t tell them apart. The bigger problem is that people buy into the primaries as a real election, too much time and money is spent on it and it comes down to who is the better on camera and by the time any formal candidate is picked, the people are tired of the entire process.

The bigger problem is there is opportunity for a third party to actaully make some gains, maybe the libertarian party but not with the bunch they have running for president, they need strong people starting in the lower elections, cities and states. The other thing as I am thinking about it, Obama and Hillary are not any good anyway, there are better people in that party that can lead and actually make a good president. Too bad the party won't let them get moving up the ladder.

Ask yourself this:
When President Clinton passed his deficit reduction package (with no Republican votes), the DOW was around 3300. Two years after passage, the DOW was around 5500. When President Clinton left office, the DOW was around 11000.
After 7 years of Republican debt and deficits, the DOW is around 12000.

So let's see - was your 401K better off under Democratic policies or Republican policies?

Well first thing is the deficit reduction that took place in ’93 was not all that successful. It had in it one of the biggest tax increases we have seen in a long time. There was little in fiscal restraint in the congress and in the latter part of ’94 and in ’95 there were signs of a slowdown due to the program. This led to the contract with America and a republic majority in congress.

Now when you talk about the DOW, it is not a really good indicator of how the country is doing. There are some false premises at work when you look at the representation by international companies that make up the industries tracked by the DOW. In fact we have had somewhat of a boom and there has been like only two adjustments to it since, tech bubble burst and some other one. The problem now is not Bush alone but the entire democratic and republican congress too, they would rather artificially push the DOW up while letting the dollar fall – which by the way is about as stupid as it gets with economic fiscal responsibility.

Also while I am thinking about it, Obama would be in a better position to introduce legislation that would help all of us. He, and the democrat party would actually win a very quick race if he does not go down the same path of class warfare and “d*mn those rich” rhetoric but rather embrace real change and real hope by backing something like the Fair Tax. But here is the thing, and I am going to exclude McCain right now, the biggest problem we have is the present parties, they still think that this is the 1930’s and that we are so stupid. Obama, and Hillary for that matter have done nothing in the last year to help but again I will repeat myself, they are much more effective in the senate as senators for the people than they could be as president.

What matters is this, Obama has no experience at all. Hillary was an unelected official who acted like she was an official and both are not clear on what they can really do for the country.

Now McCain has a clear track record, he is not the man for the job either but I am starting to see a lot more things with Obama and Hillary than with McCain.

About the McCain bit and the economy, got to tell you that the spin on that is tiring. Look not one of them know anything about the economy, they are rich. Hillary was a [FONT=&quot]Wellesley [/FONT]girl, Obama was always above the rest of us, and McCain was an admiral’s son, all coddled, all rich now. My God Obama and his BS about being poor is just too thick, he has never looked back or even given to charity like the others. Hillary does it for the taxes and I heard (not confirmed) that McCain has always given. McCain was actually being very truthful and they all should be but they won’t. McCain has been honest about NAFTA and the factory jobs that are no longer, so I fault the dems for not being as truthful as he has been. See it don’t matter if they know about the economy because when you get to that point, you have staff and advisors to tell you what you need to know.

OK about the 401k, I don’t have one, it was lost but let’s be frank about something here. I know that if Obama or Hillary gets into office, the Bush tax cuts are history. I know that most of the people who say it is a tax cut for the rich are both absolutely clueless on what tax rates are, how the laws are written and what impact that these tax cuts actually did for the country. First off when you ask about the 401K, you don’t understand that the majority of the stock is traded by institutions. This means that the UAW, Teachers union and Teamsters actually benefited from these tax cuts by lowering capital gains rates. In addition to this, the other thing that benefited was you, the average persons who trade a little here and there. Don’t believe me? Do some research with neutral sources to find out.

The other thing is that the influx of money through the simplified brackets actually helped us for a while. This was not because of the idea of lowering the highest bracket as the real war mongers want you to believe (the class warfare people) but because this opened up the pocketbooks of those top bracket people and allowed them to spend more. My former accountant gets a good laugh off of this idea that the Bush tax cuts were only for the rich, he says “the rich don’t actually pay taxes” – which is very true.

Now the rest, don’t worry, you don’t have to sell me on that – I know that and a lot more. I don’t like him, I don’t like him because he insulted the American people, but I don’t want to see our country elect a real socialist or fascist, so McCain is a lot better than those two.

 

[pelicn]

Barack Obama believes that the job of a president is to lead—and that's why he'll work to help struggling homeowners and lenders rework existing subprime loans into affordable long-term fixed loans, create a foreclosure prevention fund to help keep Americans in their homes, close the bankruptcy loophole for mortgage companies, provide a tax credit for the interest on new mortgages, fight mortgage fraud at every level, and require that borrowers have access to accurate information about their mortgage options.

All I hear out of the Democratic party is how they are going to have this program or that program or the other program....and that translates into "I'm going to be paying for other people to sit on their butts"
I'm sorry the democrats want the government to do everything for "the people" and never bring up how it's going to be paid for. That's an afterthought until the taxes go up.
I don't like the choices, but my vote will more than likely go to McCain.

 

[macmov]

Do your research. McCain is not who you think he is. As far as "Paying for sitting on there butts" What do you think your paying for now? Trillions of dollars going to companies like Haliburton on no-bid contracts. No show contracts-no work contracts in Iraq. Oil industry tax breaks across the board. WAKE UP AMERICA!!! SMELL THE COFFEE!!

 

[greg334]

Do your research. McCain is not who you think he is. As far as "Paying for sitting on there butts" What do you think your paying for now? Trillions of dollars going to companies like Haliburton on no-bid contracts. No show contracts-no work contracts in Iraq. Oil industry tax breaks across the board. WAKE UP AMERICA!!! SMELL THE COFFEE!!

My God, we all know that. We know what McCain has done. We know what he stands for but do you know what Obama stands for?

I got a bigger more important question for you, if you are listening.

How do you feel about electing someone who is a racist?

 

[iceroadtrucker]

Good Golley Ice this Thead: Mcaine , Hillary, Obamma????
If Jessy Ventura the Former Gov of MN were Running for President
Id vote for him Heck Maybe just write him in any way. If he were Id bet alot of People would vote for him over any of the 3 above. But then again No one seem to like some one that calls a spade a spade and a good guy a good Guy....
Enough said on this. Heck Jessy if you read this get your name on a ballot I bet youd be surprised you get the Nomanation.
Forget about the other 3 there all gone.

 

[greg334]

I wouldn't vote for him even if he paid me, he's an idiot.

 

[macmov]

So let's review what you guys did put into office the last 2 times. or did I forget you didn't actually win either election. SO go ahead put McBush in charge, think it's bad now?

RESUME FOR GEORGE BUSH

Past work experience

- Ran for Congress and lost.

- Produced a Hollywood slasher B movie.

- Bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas, company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.

- Bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using tax-payer money. Biggest move: Traded Sammy Sosa to the Chicago White Sox

- With father's help (and his name) was elected Governor of Texas. Accomplishments: Changed pollution laws for power and oil companies and made Texas the most polluted state in the Union. Replaced Los Angeles with Houston as the most smog ridden city in America. Cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas government to the tune of billions in borrowed money. Set record for most executions by any governor in American history.

- Became president after losing the popular vote by over 500,000 votes with the help of the Supreme Court.

Accomplishments as president -

- Either lied or used extremely flawed intelligence against the advice of many of our own military, most of our allies, and most of the church leaders of America to waste much of our wealth and many of our soldiers lives on an unwise and unjust war.

- Spent the huge surplus left by the Clinton administration and bankrupted our nation's treasury.

- Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.

- Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.

- First president in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record.

- First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in U.S. history (25%).

- After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in U.S. history.

- Set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips than any other president in U.S. history.

- In just two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their jobs.

- Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in U.S. history.

- Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period.

- Presided over a 45% increase in the loss of home ownership in America since the year 2000.

- Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in U.S. history.

- Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.

- Signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any president in U.S. history.

- Presided over the biggest energy crises in U.S. history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.

- Presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.

- Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.

- Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest against any person in the history of mankind.

- Dissolved more international treaties than any president in U.S. history.

- The most secretive and unaccountable administration in U.S. history.

- The wealthiest cabinet ever in U.S. history. (the poorest multi-millionaire, Condoleeza Rice had a Chevron oil tanker named after her).

- Presided over the biggest corporate stock market frauds of any market in any country in the history of the world.

- Created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States.

- Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in U.S. history.

- First president in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the human rights commission.

- Withdrew from the World Court of Law.

- Removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in U.S. history.

- Made the United States the least respected member of the entire United Nations.

- Refused to allow independent inspectors access to U.S. prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.

- First president in U.S. history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 U.S. elections).

- All-time U.S. (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.

- George W. Bush's biggest life-time campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).

-Spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in U.S. history.

- First president in U.S. history to unilaterally attack a sovereign nation against the will of the United Nations and the world community.

- First president to run and hide when the U.S. came under attack

- Took the biggest world sympathy for the U.S. after 911, and in less than a year made the U.S. the most detested country in the world

- With a policy of 'disengagement' created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.

- Changed U.S. policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.

- Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in U.S. history.

- In a little over two years created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided the U.S. has ever been since the Civil War.

- Entered office with the strongest economy in U.S. history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.

Records and References

- At least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine (Texas driving record has been erased and is not available)

- AWOL from National Guard and deserted the military during a time of war.

- Refuse to take drug test or even answer any questions about drug use.

- All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away to my father's library, sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.

- All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.

- All minutes of meetings for any public corporation I served on the board are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.

- Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP) attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public review.

 

[greg334]

Macmov,

I don't care about George Bush, it don't matter anyway, he is the president, he is on his last year so what does it matter?

Can you answer my question?

How do you feel about electing someone who is a racist?

OH

and "Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in U.S. history."

Prove it! name the freedoms and name the people who have been effective.

you have no clue about what happened in the past.

 

[macmov]

Sir, do your history. John McCain is much more of a racist then Obama ever even thought of. Read MAcain's history on MLK. Here's some tips for you.

Last fall, John McCain said that he wanted a Christian to be president because he felt that the Christian faith was a better guide than other faiths. He also said that his faith was an important part of his qualification to lead, adding that the United States Constitution established America as a Christian nation.
Leave aside for the moment whether John McCain's religious bigotry is acceptable in modern America. Instead, ask yourself what the media would have done if Jeremiah Wright had uttered those words, especially if he had been talking about race instead of religion?


McBush on the Economy: The Same Old Thing

There's no denying the similarities between Bush and McCain. And there's no denying that we're headed into a recession, whether or not you believe our "fundamentals are strong."

John McCain is asked why he voted against a law creating a national MLK holiday in 1983. He responds "I changed my view a very short time after," which is not even remotely the truth.. unless by "short time" he meant "11 years."
John McCain is running solely on his military record, yet knows nothing about the new GI Bill that would provide tuition money for soldiers.
McCain Says War in Iran Close to Reality


From Republican presidential debate 10/9/07...
McCain Scores A ZERO On The Environment


Media's Double Standard on McCain's Bigotry

Bush Thinks McCain "Best Guy To Carry On His Agenda"


No shocker here, but is there actually a coherent Bush agenda? You know, besides enriching his friends and making more families mourn over lost children in a war based on lies?

 

[macmov]

There are hunderds of Cival right violations by Bush but I will give you just ten,

10. Attempt to Get Death Penalty for Zacarias Moussaoui
Long after it was clear the hapless Frenchman was neither the "20th hijacker" nor a key plotter in the attacks of 9/11, the government pressed to execute him as a "conspirator" in those attacks. Moussaoui's alleged participation? By failing to confess to what he may have known about the plot, which may have led the government to disrupt it, Moussaoui directly caused the deaths of thousands of people. This massive overreading of the federal conspiracy laws would be laughable were the stakes not so high. Thankfully, a jury rejected the notion that Moussaoui could be executed for the crime of merely wishing there had been a real connection between himself and 9/11.

9. Guantanamo Bay
It takes a licking but it keeps on ticking. After the Supreme Court struck down the military tribunals planned to try hundreds of detainees moldering on the base, and after the president agreed that it might be a good idea to close it down, the worst public relations fiasco since the Japanese internment camps lives on. Prisoners once deemed "among the most dangerous, best-trained, vicious killers on the face of the earth" are either quietly released (and usually set free) or still awaiting trial. The lucky 75 to be tried there will be cheered to hear that the Pentagon has just unveiled plans to build a $125 million legal complex for the hearings. The government has now officially put more thought into the design of Guantanamo's court bathrooms than the charges against its prisoners.
8. Slagging the Media
Whether the Bush administration is reclassifying previously declassified documents, sidestepping the FOIA, threatening journalists for leaks on dubious legal grounds, or, most recently, using its subpoena power to try to wring secret documents from the ACLU, the administration has continued its "secrets at any price" campaign. Is this a constitutional crisis? Probably not. Annoying as hell? Definitely.

7. Slagging the Courts
It starts with the president's complaints about "activist judges," and evolves to Congressional threats to appoint an inspector general to oversee federal judges. As public distrust of the bench is fueled, the stripping of courts' authority to hear whole classes of cases—most recently any habeas corpus claims from Guantanamo detainees—almost seems reasonable. Each tiny incursion into the independence of the judiciary seems justified. Until you realize that the courts are often the only places that will defend our shrinking civil liberties. This leads to ...

6. The State-Secrets Doctrine
The Bush administration's insane argument in court is that judges should dismiss entire lawsuits over many of the outrages detailed on this very list. Why? Because the outrageously illegal things are themselves matters of top-secret national security. The administration has raised this claim in relation to its adventures in secret wiretapping and its fun with extraordinary rendition. A government privilege once used to sidestep civil claims has mushroomed into sweeping immunity for the administration's sometimes criminal behavior.

5. Government Snooping
Take your pick. There's the NSA warrantless eavesdropping program wherein the president breezily authorized spying on the phone calls of innocent citizens, in violation of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. The FBI's TALON database shows the government has been spying on nonterrorist groups, including Quakers, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, and Veterans for Peace. The Patriot Act lives on. And that's just the stuff we know about.

4. Extraordinary Rendition
So, when does it start to become ordinary rendition? This government program has us FedEx-ing unindicted terror suspects abroad for interrogation/torture. Khalid El-Masri, a German citizen, was shipped off to Afghanistan for such treatment and then released without charges, based on some government confusion about his name. Heh heh. Canadian citizen Maher Arar claims he was tortured in Syria for a year, released without charges, and cleared by a Canadian commission. Attempts to vindicate the rights of such men? You'd need to circle back to the state-secrets doctrine, above.

3. Abuse of Jose Padilla
First, he was, according to then-Attorney General John Ashcroft, "exploring a plan to build and explode a radiological dispersion device, or 'dirty bomb,' in the United States." Then, he was planning to blow up apartments. Then he was just part of a vague terror conspiracy to commit jihad in Bosnia and Chechnya. Always, he was a U.S. citizen. After three and a half years, in which he was denied the most basic legal rights, it has now emerged that Padilla was either outright tortured or near-tortured. According to a recent motion, during Padilla's years of almost complete isolation, he was treated by the U.S. government to sensory and sleep deprivation, extreme cold, stress positions, threats of execution, and drugging with truth serum. Experts say he is too mentally damaged to stand trial. The Bush administration supported his motion for a mental competency assessment, in hopes that will help prevent his torture claims from ever coming to trial, or, as Yale Law School's inimitable Jack Balkin put it: "You can't believe Padilla when he says we tortured him because he's crazy from all the things we did to him."

2. The Military Commissions Act of 2006
This was the so-called compromise legislation that gave President Bush even more power than he initially had to detain and try so-called enemy combatants. He was generously handed the authority to define for himself the parameters of interrogation and torture and the responsibility to report upon it, since he'd been so good at that. What we allegedly did to Jose Padilla was once a dirty national secret. The MCA made it the law.

1. Hubris
Whenever the courts push back against the administration's unsupportable constitutional ideas—ideas about "inherent powers" and a "unitary executive" or the silliness of the Geneva Conventions or the limitless sweep of presidential powers during wartime—the Bush response is to repeat the same chorus louder: Every detainee is the worst of the worst; every action taken is legal, necessary, and secret. No mistakes, no apologies. No nuance, no regrets. This legal and intellectual intractability can create the illusion that we are standing on the same constitutional ground we stood upon in 2001, even as that ground is sliding away under our feet.

 

[greg334]

NO, this is not about McCain, it is about you.

Can you vote for a person who is a racist?

I am not talking about religious bigotry, I am not talking about anything else but can you vote for a person who is a racist?

As for Rev King holiday, I feel that it is a direct violation of the interpretation of the constitution that was made in 1963. If you know anything about Rev. King, he was an ordain minister first, he got his doctorate in religious studies after the fact that he was already a pastor. He was a head of a church, he put God first in his life and his cause second. SO I too would have voted against a holiday for him, I do not feel it is right to have any state sponsored memorial for him, it represents that the country sponsors a specific religion by memorializing a religious leader.

 

[macmov]

I guess you forgot what you asked me here's your quote "
and "Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in U.S. history."

Prove it! name the freedoms and name the people who have been effective.

you have no clue about what happened in the past."

Maybe you have A.D.D. like our great commander and Chief?

I already answered you about McCain.

In closing (because I'm done with you) I will say This is America, and as it stands right now, we are all entitled to our personal opinions as long as we don't shout to load or influence to many people. Hopefully we will not lose any more of our freedoms and there may be light at the end of this long lonely tunnel that has been created for us. Of course, I am only speaking of the middle class, not all of us are part of this subservient society of the middle class.

 

[greg334]

Maybe you have A.D.D. like our great commander and Chief?

I already answered you about McCain.

Well I don't care about McCain, I agree with a lot of what you say about him and add to it. BUT you won't answer the question so I assume you will not because of you don't want to admit to that you could.

In closing (because I'm done with you) I will say This is America, and as it stands right now, we are all entitled to our personal opinions as long as we don't shout to load or influence to many people. Hopefully we will not lose any more of our freedoms and there may be light at the end of this long lonely tunnel that has been created for us. Of course, I am only speaking of the middle class, not all of us are part of this subservient society of the middle class.

Well we didn't lose any rights under any direct action of the administration. We lost rights under our congress, more specifically under the decision of Kelo v. New London. This is more serious issue than any problems we have with Gitmo, any problems we have with Padilla and any problems we have run away press. You apparently have no clue what importance this decision hold for our fundamental rights, if you did it would be one issue you would bring up.

Oh how elitist, you are done with me.......must be upper middle class.

By the way, learn what FDR and Wilson did before repeating things, they did far more damage to our rights.

 

[macmov]

Crazynuff and greg334

I am still done with this thread but I didn't want to leave under the conditions I created. I owe you an apology. I get very passionate about my beliefs and I tend to try and push it to hard on others at times. So with that said, thanks for the interesting view points. Eric

 

[greg334]

Crazynuff and greg334

I am still done with this thread but I didn't want to leave under the conditions I created. I owe you an apology. I get very passionate about my beliefs and I tend to try and push it to hard on others at times. So with that said, thanks for the interesting view points. Eric

You don't owe anyone any apology, it is good to see the passion in a world of sheep. Even though we disagree (I don't on McCain) there is always room for a discussion.

 

[Crazynuff]

NO, this is not about McCain, it is about you.

Can you vote for a person who is a racist?

I am not talking about religious bigotry, I am not talking about anything else but can you vote for a person who is a racist?

As for Rev King holiday, I feel that it is a direct violation of the interpretation of the constitution that was made in 1963. If you know anything about Rev. King, he was an ordain minister first, he got his doctorate in religious studies after the fact that he was already a pastor. He was a head of a church, he put God first in his life and his cause second. SO I too would have voted against a holiday for him, I do not feel it is right to have any state sponsored memorial for him, it represents that the country sponsors a specific religion by memorializing a religious leader.

Does that mean you want us to get rid of Christmas ? And what about Thanksgiving ?

 

[Crazynuff]

Crazynuff and greg334

I am still done with this thread but I didn't want to leave under the conditions I created. I owe you an apology. I get very passionate about my beliefs and I tend to try and push it to hard on others at times. So with that said, thanks for the interesting view points. Eric

I agree no apology is necessary . Your post were mature and rational . Everybody has a right to post their opinion .

 

[greg334]

Does that mean you want us to get rid of Christmas ? And what about Thanksgiving ?

Thanksgiving? nope not at all.

Christmas? not at all.

The point is that I want the country to look past the BS when memorializing people. An entire industry has been built up around him but his dream of realistic equality has been removed out of the scene.

With people like Al Sharpton, Jackson and Wright, they have hijacked the Christian religion and done a lot of damage to Rev King's cause.

 

[ratwell71]

I do not believe Obama to be racist just because he sat in a church under a preacher whose views are a little extreme, and I can almost guarantee that the white presidents we have had in office were just as racist as Rev. Wright if not more.

Call Obama racist if you want to but know that this country has a histroy of bigotry. We all live in a hypocritical state of mind. Yes, hypocrisy lives!!!!

I am not voting for any of them...

Do your research before you cast your ballot!

There is not one man/woman on this planet that is 100 percent good and if you find him/her then you found Jesus Christ. The problem with most people is that when we find a scab we choose to pick at it rather than let it heal.

Macmov has no reason to apologize. I have enjoyed reading the different views. Thanks for including your research on McBush.