Well, the cart is officially ahead of the horse!

[guest]

I'm not sure if I should post this here or the newbie's board, but here goes anyway.

A friend and I rode to Dallas and back today and I purchased an '00 Century Class F'liner w/70" condo. It has the 12.7 Det., 3.70 gears and single axle. I'll have to stretch it, and add a box, but in time I'll have the makings of a new career . The truck has quite a few more miles on it than what I was looking for, but it is a Penske lease truck and never licensed for more than 56k. It was used to pull a horse trailer hauling very expensive race horses all over the U.S. The truck has 800k miles on it, but it is as tight and seems to be as mechanicly sound as most of the 400k mile trucks I've looked at. I was very impressed with the mechanical condition of the truck. Penske has a very good reputation and now I know why.

I will probably have rod and main bearings replaced immediately for insurance, but I really think the truck is good to go. After sitting on the lot for a couple of weeks, it started and run as good and run as smooth as my gas burner pickup. I was very impressed.

I wanted a lower mileage truck, but this one was just too nice and the price is well within my budget. I should be able to put this truck together and owe nothing on it when I hit the road.

here's a pic:

 

[Sterling_owner]

RE: Well, the cart is officially ahead of the hors

Congrats, I'm interested in seeing how the truck will hold up. Please post some after pics when you're done.

2 1999 Sterling Semis
2000 Ford F650 24ft box truck

 

[Weave]

RE: Well, the cart is officially ahead of the hors

Awesome looking cart! To be honest I didn't know if you were going to go for it, but I'm very glad you did and will be joining the ranks of the expediting world soon after you get the tractor stretched and built. Congratulations!
I am a little concerned with the mileage as you are too, but pulling a horse trailer isn't hard work. There is a good chance the engine might have been overhauled recently. If no records are available, have one main bearing cap and one rod cap pulled off, and plasigauge the bearings. If within tolerance, let it go. You'll at least get a new pan gasket and bolt seals out of it!
What tranny does the horsey rig have in it?
I think you are off to a good start with that Century. A lot of fellows, including myself, have been wondering how a tractor stretch job comes together, and if you could post some photos on how your work comes about that would be great Arky! I just bought someone else's work- you are actually doing the stretch deed
Best wishes and if you have any ? on your powertrain, which is about the same as I have in my Columbia, feel free to ask.
-Weave-

 

[guest]

RE: Well, the cart is officially ahead of the hors

Thx for the support! I'm still not in any hurry to jump in. Still got a lot of ducks to gather yet, much less getting 'em all lined up :+ .

The "horsey rig" (i like that ) maybe "pony wagon", has eaton 10 speed, eaton rear end. Is this good or bad? That is one thing i wasn't sure of. Obviously gambling on the mileage, but my gut feeling is real good about the truck, it seems super tight.

I'll be calling tomorrow to get info. on some of the materials for the frame stretch and then I have a couple of shops that I might get to do it if the price is fair. If not, i'm game for it. I'm reasonably talented in that kind of stuff and have a few friends that are too. An uncle (deceased) stretched several bob trucks years ago that he used to haul used farm equipment to and from sales. Some of the folks who helped him are still around here. Finding the material to "cap" the frame (double frame) is my biggest concern. I've already contacted a salvage yard here about buying a section of frame that will come with cross members, carrier bearings, etc. I'm sure I'll replace all the bearings and such while their handy.

What I have in mind right now is to add just enough frame to get the wheelbase I'm looking for, then add the double frame rails to the outside. The double frame rails will extend from under the sleeper (somewhere, to be decided) to the rear of the box. Does this sound sufficient?

Weave, I'll definitely be looking your ride over and asking questions along the way, simply because they are so similiar in design. I did measure the truck and it is 15'4" from bumper to back of sleeper. I should be able to squeeze a 24' box on there...maybe . May have to fudge just a little x( .

Thx for the input,

 

[guest]

RE: Well, the cart is officially ahead of the hors

>>To be honest I didn't know if you were going to go for it, <<

Btw, to be honest, I wasn't so sure myself. I actually had 2 other ideas/opportunities to look into. One of which scared me to death (IMHO, made trucking looking like a FDIC insured savings account). I sat at the memphis truckstop last Fri. watching the exp. trucks in and out and decided I didn't mind giving it a shot if I could get in at a reasonable cost.

Please keep in mind that I'm not looking for this truck to last 10 years, I just want as good of a starter truck as I can get, while keeping the financial risk as small as possible. I knew when I found this truck that it fit the bill if it was in the condition advertised. For the most part, it is.

Thx, Arky

 

[Weave]

RE: Well, the cart is officially ahead of the hors

Your Eaton tranny and rear are excellent components, I actually prefer the Eaton to the Rockwell/Meritor stuff on my truck. The Eaton trannies shift smoother.
My truck has full double frame rails, as it was factory built that way. The re-enforcement rails are on the inside, though on your stretch I don't suppose it matters if they are on the inside or outside, there might just be a little neater an appearance with them on the inside. The doubling up of my rails starts around the middle of the cab. Anyway, it sounds to me like your plan will give more than enough strength. Anything beats a single set of rails on a long straight truck. It used to scare me seeing my old FL70 bow when a heavy forklift went into it. Taking the time to double up as much as possible is well worth it.
You'll be OK with the 24' box. You might have to leave a little more gap between the box and sleeper with your condo than what I have with my midroof as the top of the sleeper will move a bit more on the air ride pivot. Your total length might come in an inch or two over the 40' "limit," but I think I mentioned to you before it's highly doubtful its length will ever be questioned as I know mine is REAL close, yet never looked into by the DOT man.
Once you get the truck put together and get all the bugs out of it, and are up and running, you'll be glad you entered the profession with a truck you can be proud you put together yourself. If you find a nice clean box, your truck is going to look brand new with that clean tractor, and will be a heck of a lot more powerful and durable than just about all of the new off-the-shelf overpriced class 7's out there.
-Weave-

 

[guest]

RE: Well, the cart is officially ahead of the hors

Thx for the support Weave. I sent you a private msg., did you get it? I was thinking today that it should be possible to get enough frame at the bone yard to extend both the inner and outer frame to the rear of the box. I spoke with the salesman at Davis Body, which is who built and installed my first dump bed. He told me that when they double frame, they try to go outside simply because they don't have as much "stuff" to remove and take loose such as air lines, cross members, etc. I do agree with you that it would look better also. I think I can make it so that you would have to be on a creeper to know that it's a stretch . I also agree that I need to watch the clearance with the condo. I had in mind that I might drain the air from the cab's air bags and then set the box 2"-3" behind the closest spot (the top..obviously...I think..lol). I've looked at some box trucks (no sleeper) here in town and some have very, very little gap between the cab and box.

I'll leave the other details for later, as we've discussed most of the issues that I am aware of. More are sure to come! x(

I have in mind that what I want to do as far as documenting the stretch on here is maybe take some pics as it unfolds, but wait till it is finished or maybe do it in stages as for posting threads. I think it would cut down on the length of the thread. I hope that I can do a good enough job that others will be able to benefit from my experience. I guess if I don't, I can tell them what to NOT do...lol.

As for a time frame, I've mentioned before that as far as I know, there is no hurry (still got my day job...well night job..lol). I have mentioned several times to home folks that I'm thinking mid-year for busting bubbles where I work now. And, of course, some support this "trucking idea" of mine, some don't.

Thx for not hitting me too hard on the miles. I have walked away from some decent trucks because of that kind of miles, but this one just had what I needed and really impressed me enough to overlook the miles. One thing I've known all along is that I couldn't afford a nice, low mileage, late model truck to start out with. I knew I would have to compromise something, and until I found this truck it was either condition or year model. This truck has the condition and the year model, so I feel the miles are my best compromise. I feel pretty good about it, and I'm pretty sure that this truck is the best option for the money I have to work with.

Thx for the help, I'm sure I'll be asking for more! ...lol, :+

 

[guest]

RE: Well, the cart is officially ahead of the hors

Almost for got to mention that I actually bought the truck from a guy named Crooks, but he is from Kansas City. I wander if he's any relation to your frends at Crook Motors? His name is spelled Crooks with the "s".

Also wanted to mention that I really, really like the looks of the mid-roof trucks a lot better than the condo's, but I think the extra bunk will make for some good storage area and free up some floor space for me as a solo. Anyone need some plastic freightliner closets?..lol. I don't know exactly how I want the sleeper set up yet, but I'm sure that some of that stuff is gonna get yanked out by the roots..lol.

Have fun, be safe ,

 

[Weave]

RE: Well, the cart is officially ahead of the hors

One thing I haven't mentioned to you when shopping for your box is look for height and width over length. Idealistically, a 102x102 would be perfect, but won't show up used. The width is especially important, make sure you have at least a 96" inside width, or you'll get screwed out of a lot of freight. The higher the better too, as a lot of the automotive style plastic tubs you will haul can be safely double stacked, and are usually light. Try to find barn doors over the roll-ups, just trust me on this.. that's what Crook Motors said:7
-Weave-

 

[guest]

RE: Well, the cart is officially ahead of the hors

lol...well, I'll take your word for it ..lol. I'm sure you know that I won't be able to be too picky. I'll be looking for condition mainly and, of course, the height, width and length. I'll write those numbers down so I don't forget. I keep a small pocket memo with notes like that with me. It helps a lot. I supposedly have some boxes found already. The guy told me he had some boxes in the same year range as my truck for $1,000-$1,200. If their in good shape, I'll just look for what looks like the best combination of the features you've mentioned. I was going to go look tomorrow, but need to help my friend with a job he's got going. I didn't have in mind getting the box yet, but with the length being so close, I think it might be wise to know exactly what I have to work with.

Thx for the info.,

 

[Weave]

RE: Well, the cart is officially ahead of the hors

Keep up the good work, and keep everyone posted on how the build is coming along. I have been asked a lot of questions about stretches, but can't really answer them with a lot of accuracy as I have not done one. You'll be the first one in EO history to actually document a tractor stretch start to finish, and I know a lot of others will find it of great interest as I see many expediters, old and new, are starting to go this route to have the benefits of a class 8 truck.
-Weave-

Oh, BTW.. did you ever wonder why there are no JP or A-Team posts on EO?? (just take a guess and you'll be dead on)! Thanks for the statement last night, you are already light years ahead in all aspects of expediting compared to JP as far as I am concerned.

 

[davekc]

RE: Well, the cart is officially ahead of the hors

looks like a nice ride! love the stretch idea. let everyone know how it goes. Of course I am partial to my kw300 but your idea will beat a high dollar class 7 as Weave stated.

 

[guest]

RE: Well, the cart is officially ahead of the hors

Thx for the support Davekc.

Weave, funny you should mention that..lol...yes, I have many times wandered and just the other day reached that conclusion. Probably a good call. This is a very good sight with level-headed, friendly conversation. That is definitly a good thing and I wouldn't want it to change.

As for the stretch. I figure that if yours was done at the factory and I need information, that's a good place to get it..lol. One thing I know I'll need is how long your longest drive shaft is. I think you told me in another post that your truck has 4 drive shafts. The trucks that my uncle used to stretch would end up with a drive shaft 20 ft long..lol. That's the only real trouble I remember him having. He twisted a lot of them out before he got it right. I just wish he was still around to help with this truck.

Hope everyone is resting and enjoying themselves today, it's been very nice weather here for the last week,

 

[Jimmy]

RE: Well, the cart is officially ahead of the hors

Arky,
Nice looking ride there!!! I just got on this morning & saw your post.
I hope you have lot's of pictures & info on this because this is my plan if action on my next truck is to follow your lead.
I got a few questions for you if you don't mind. Are you going to stretch it by cutting in the middle or just add to the rails & move the axle back so you just have one complete lenght of rail instead of having to add in the middle & the end of rails where the axle set?
Reason I ask is that truck dealer told me that this way cost initially more but I would be able to cut off what I addded to rails & make it a tractor again with an un-welded frame. And I would be able to use this section again on another strtch job box & all.Made sense you got any idea on it?
Thanks Jimmy

 

[guest]

RE: Well, the cart is officially ahead of the hors

Jimmy, makes perfect sense! That's the exact line of thought I was using when I decided that the stretch would be my best route. I would note one thing though. I don't think you will ever have the need to convert back to a tractor as it seems the trucks are worth quite a bit more once you have them set up for expedite work.

For a direct answer..yes, I intend to add app. 15' to the existing frame, slide the axles back and rework/extend the driveline. Then I intend to double frame the stretch from the rear to somewhere under the cab (guessing 26'- 28' of frame rail added to the outside). I have no idea if I can order the frame rails that long or not, that's something I have to research. One thing to keep in mind is that the extra frame you add to the original frame can be purchased at a salvage yard with cross members, carrier bearings, etc. already in place. I expect that the extra rails for double framing will cost me more than anything else, including the box as they will have to be purchased new...probably special ordered.

To stretch the middle of the truck, you would have 2 welds in the frame between the drive and steer axles, then you would have to add to the rear of the frame still. That just doesn't sound like something I want to do.

I intend to document the stretch and post it on here as best I can, but if your in a hurry, keep in mind that I'm not. I expect to take a couple of months to get this all together, maybe even more depending on complications, etc.

Thx for the compliment,

 

[Weave]

RE: Well, the cart is officially ahead of the hors

When I get back early next week, I'll crawl under my truck and measure and photograph the driveshaft setup for the 320" WB.
I'm not sure how fellows set these things up and align them all, it will likely be one of the more complex parts of the stretch. I think the main idea of the setup on mine was to keep the shafts up high until the very last one, to keep water and salt, etc out of the U-joints. It has worked flawlessly thus far. If your tractor has the AirLiner rear spring setup, it will work perfectly for the straight truck.
Definitely take your time with the job, we certainly won't rush you When you do the wiring for the box and rear lighting, be sure it is done by someone who specializes in that. Mine was done by a donkey, and had to be all re-done due to corrosion getting into the vast array of cheap connectors they used that were not weather tight. Same deal with the brake and air ride lines- many of them rubbed the frame rails and developed leaks, and had to be replaced and re-routed properly.
When I re-did the wiring (did this myself) I came up with a plan that segregates the running lights (the wires that burn up the most) from the rest of the system, and there are only three connections to all the running lights from the cab. When you start running and get into the "salt belt," you'll understand how important keeping the wiring weather tight is.
Enough rambling I know a lot of fellows and have a lot of resources for your questions as you go along for the things I don't have a clue about myself, and hopefully we can help you out if you get into a jam with your "Monster Garage" project!
-Weave-

I joke around saying my truck with the full factory double frame will become a sleeper-cab garbage truck when it's expediting days end

 

[guest]

RE: Well, the cart is officially ahead of the hors

Well...there is an update already...at least it looks like there will be. I talked to a guy here today that builds a lot of super heavy duty demolition grade dump trailers. He's never been known to "underbuild" anything. When we talked about the double frame, and the stretch, he didn't agree. He is too busy to do my truck, but told me that he has stretched a lot of dump trucks and he never even double frames them. He says that a good weld will hold. I am not going to do take that chance, but he also mentioned that to cap the frame as were my intentions would add another frame thickness to each side of the frame, thus causing the suspension brackets to move that far also. It is doubtful that they could be moved on the axle which mean that would create a bind. I think the folks at Davis Truck Body may have only double framed to the point where the rear suspension fastens to the frame. That would work.

Since talking to this guy, I am now considering doubling the frame from the front of the suspension to the rear of the sleeper or maybe to where the fuel tanks bolt on. I feel that would be sufficient.

Weave, I realize you may not agree with this. I'm not completely sure myself, but I do know that I've seen trucks that were subject to a lot more weight and abuse than what I expect from an expedite truck and they held with even less reinforcement than what I would be doing with this plan.

The other thing he told me to do was to instead of buying the C shaped frame channel to use an L shaped reinforcement. This would definitely be easier, but I'm not sure yet about that one. I have some more research to do and I'll be talking to some more folks in the near future.

I also found out todday that I might be able to get hooked up with guy here who stretches a lot of the big heavy duty wreckers. There is a truck lot down here that sells them, and this guys does all of their stretches. He should be good. A friend knows him and he's gonna see if he can get in touch with him sometime this week. Even if doesn't want the work, he should be able to give me some good advice.

Weave, point taken on the wiring. I had actually read in another thread somewhere where you had talked of the wiring issues up north. I had in mind to get the stretch completed and before mounting the box, bring the truck out to the house and going over the wiring myself. I think that with some tips and help from you guys, I can probably do as good on this myself. I don't know of anyone here that I would trust to understand the corrosion issue that you speak of since it's not as big of a problem here.

Sorry for writing books every time I get on here folks...lol

Thx for the input,

 

[davekc]

RE: Well, the cart is officially ahead of the hors

For what it is worth on wiring. Never use those blue plastic connectors. Waste of effort and money. Our truck had a couple of those and had to replace them. I would go with sealed harnesses and led lights. If you have to make a connection, I had my connections soldered and heat shrinking connectors put on. Salt and all those chemicals will trash your electrical system if you start cutting corners.
Before I forget, you can use rubberized spray for other connectors to keep salt from intruding into the back of them.

 

[guest]

RE: Well, the cart is officially ahead of the hors

Ok...here's an update. As much as I have anyway. I have talked to the guy here who builds the wreckers. Turns out that he sends his trucks out to have them stretched. He gave me the guys name and told me that he charges about $6k to stretch the wreckers to 320" wheelbase. He uses all new frame materials and all new drive line and double frames them. I failed to ask how far he double frames, but I can ask the other guy. I'm hoping to find a cheaper route, but we'll see. This same guy told me that I could get it done for half the price if I wanted to go to the trouble of coming up with my own piece of frame like I had mentioned and do some of the leg work, etc. myself. As I was calling looking for boxes, I talked to a salvage yard here and he knew of a guy who had a used box...ended up being the same guy that does the frame stretches...lol.. I haven't been able to contact him yet, but I'll keep trying.


Weave, I've got one for ya now!..lol. My guess is that the sleeper on your truck is similiar to mine. You can raise the bottom bunk in my sleeper with the flip of a latch. Below is an open space in the center and then the side compartments on each side. As soon as I saw that, I remembered the one thing that I told my friends that I would love to have in a truck. A recliner! I can use the upper bunk to sleep in and, with very little modification, have a good sized spot there on the floor of the sleeper to put a recliner. I could put shelves r whatever on each side of it and have a pretty nice set-up. Admittedly, sleeping in the upper bunk may be a sacrifice, but I'd be willing to make it for a good place to sit back and relax. What do you think?

How's that for a busy mind??..lol

 

[Weave]

RE: Well, the cart is officially ahead of the hors

You have the condo sleeper, which has a lot more room in it than my midroof. Mine doesn't even have bunks, just one bed for a single driver. I can lift the bed-mattress area up to reveal the sleeper HVAC and there is some storage under it. That along with a Norcold fridge and a couple of small cabinets are all my sleeper has, but it's just fine for my needs, and is actually great because I am only 5'9" and can stand up throughout the whole cab and sleeper. If I were any taller, forget it. My truck sat for sale at Crook for almost a year due to the fact nobody wanted something like it without the condo for team operations. Had it been a condo sleeper it would have sold in a second.
You have a lot more options with the condo. You could do the recliner thing, and maybe a small desk and shelves on the floor. It's nice to have some workspace to do paperwork and the such. My sleeper has a little rinky-dink pull out desk, where I can sit on the mattress to do paperwork. Crude, but better than nothing
The condo sleeper should be a luxury for running solo!
-Weave-