Truck Length

[P51bombay]

Just having a read through exclusions to length measurement to stay under 40ft. - As I read the list it seems that a rear mounted lift (such as a railgate) would NOT be included in the measurement. Anyone agree or disagree with this interpretation?
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§658.16 Exclusions from length and width determinations.

(a) Vehicle components not excluded by law or regulation shall be included in the measurement of the length and width of commercial motor vehicles.

(b) The following shall be excluded from either the measured length or width of commercial motor vehicles, as applicable:

(b)(1) Rear view mirrors, turn signal lamps, handholds for cab entry/ egress, splash and spray suppressant devices, load induced tire bulge;

(b)(2) All non-property-carrying devices, or components thereof-

(b)(2)(i) At the front of a semitrailer or trailer, or

(b)(2)(ii) That do not extend more than 3 inches beyond each side or the rear of the vehicle, or

(b)(2)(iii) That do not extend more than 24 inches beyond the rear of the vehicle and are needed for loading or unloading, or

(b)(2)(vi) Listed in appendix D to this part;

 

[JohnO]

After rereading this subsection I would agree:

(b)(2)(iii) That do not extend more than 24 inches beyond the rear of the vehicle and are needed for loading or unloading,

I also would suggest you call OOIDA and get their input on subject.

 

[ATeam]

If you enjoy receiving tickets for overlength, or taking the risk of doing so, go ahead and rely on this interpretation.

When Diane and I built our truck we researched that question to death and concluded that a straight truck that is over 40' bumper to bumper, including any detatchable components, is illegal in some states.

I am personally acquainted with a straight truck driver who was escorted out of California under load because his straight truck was overlength. I also know another straight truck driver who received a ticket at a scale for an overlength straight truck.

Sure, you can read the laws and justify your truck length anyway you wish. People who do this are fond of quoting unnamed scale cops they or friends of theirs have met saying it is OK to be overlength. Quoting selected regs also is popular, but that does not tell the whole story. We had a vendor try to sell us an overlength truck and sent us "THE REGS" in an effort to do so. Diane, being an attorney, is no stranger to reading the law. In five minutes, she saw the other part of the reg, omitted by the vendor, that said the reg did not apply to straight trucks. That vendor, in an effort to preserve a sale, tried to convince us to drive an illegal vehicle. Vendors are the last people you want to rely on when regs are cited.

When push comes to shove and if you come face to face with the wrong scale cop, or have a serious accident where everything you do and have ever done regarding the law comes under scrutiny, the safe way to go is a straight truck that is 40.0 feet or less, bumper to bumper, including removable components like dock bumpers, lift gates, front bumper winches, or anything else you might want to hang on either end.

Oh yea... don't forget the drivers who will tell you something like "I've been driving overlength trucks for 15 years and crossed scales in all states, and have never had a problem." They are not lying. It is true that they are driving an overlength truck and have never had a problem. Still, what are you going to do if you get nailed, shrink your truck?

Sorry about the tone, P51. It is not directed at you. You are asking a good question in a good way. It just irritates the dickens out of me to hear people advise us to drive an illegal truck. My emotion goes back to our own experience, not yours. If your concern is to stay legal, keep your truck at 40 feet or less.

 

[TeamCaffee]

We also researched this subject and we are 40' from bumper to bumper so we had to buy a lift gate to accommodate the law. We have a lift gate that tucks completely under the truck, one of the nice things about our lift gate is many of the dock locks will hook onto our DOT bumper. So far we have only had one problem at a customer were they could not get a lock on us but all of us worked through the problem to get unloaded.

Now as Phil says we do not have to worry about an over length ticket and how to shrink our truck.

 

[LDB]

Technically you are correct that a liftgate, whether rail or platform, that does not extend more than 24" beyond the rear of the truck is legal. As others have said, the dilemma can be when some jerk officer places himself above the law and hassles you for it even though it's legal.

 

[P51bombay]

Phil - no worries about tone, I asked looking for exactly the experience I know is out there. Now some questions to your comments. Are you saying there is another reg stating that the exclusions do not apply to straight trucks and if so could you point out what that reg is? Do you know how Washington state views this subject? The truck, yet to be built would likely never operate outside of WA or BC (90% inside BC where the limit is 41ft) so places such as CA wouldn't really matter. And not to question what you have said but it seems odd that with a federal reg in place - how can a state such as CA impose something else? I was my understanding that states were not permitted to contravene a federal regulation. Did you ever try writing to the FMCSA for a ruling on the subject?

This appears to be a load of canned worms not properly secured. LOL

 

[P51bombay]

We also researched this subject and we are 40' from bumper to bumper so we had to buy a lift gate to accommodate the law. We have a lift gate that tucks completely under the truck, one of the nice things about our lift gate is many of the dock locks will hook onto our DOT bumper. So far we have only had one problem at a customer were they could not get a lock on us but all of us worked through the problem to get unloaded.

Now as Phil says we do not have to worry about an over length ticket and how to shrink our truck.

What lift are you using and can you post some pix? I can't think of a tuck under lift that still allows for a DOT bumper. That was one of the reasons for looking to a railgate, also to allow hitch to be fitted.

 

[Paul56]

The truck, yet to be built would likely never operate outside of WA or BC (90% inside BC where the limit is 41ft) so places such as CA wouldn't really matter.

Also consider down the road when you may want to sell your truck. Spec'ing it now to the regs of one area may limit your market *and* the area you can operate in should later on you make some changes. Consider making it as compliant such that it can run anywhere in the States and Canada.

BTW, I take some exception to all vendors being painted as an unreliable source of information. Many like ourselves rely on our reputation proceeding us from those satisfied customers we have dealt with over the years.

We've certainly had our share of customers over the years who can be bull-headed with their notions of spec'ing a truck and wanting to configure something that just won't work for whatever reason. We refuse to continue working with those customers because the hit our reputation would take will do far more damage than good that the revenue generated from a sale will do.

 

[ATeam]

"Are you saying there is another reg stating that the exclusions do not apply to straight trucks and if so could you point out what that reg is?"

Without doing the research again, I am not a good source for current info. I can only tell you what our experience was at the time.

The issue for us was vendors citing a federal reg (and "never had a problem" quotes from unnamed veteran drivers, and quotes from unnamed scale cops). Our research found the reg was not recognized by some states but recognized by others.

Also, depending on what state you talked about, the reg was only good on national network roads, or maybe some state roads. We used the road that runs in front of our house as a test. Under our laws in Minnesota, the 40' 11" truck would be illegal the instant it left our driveway. The lift gate and dock bumpers that put it overlength, despite our instructions to build a truck no longer than 40 feet. When faced with the choice of accepting or rejecting an illegal truck, we rejected it and started over. The result is the truck we have now, which is 40 feet, zero inches long, exactly, including all so-called removable components (who removes dock bumpers or lift gates?).

"Do you know how Washington state views this subject?"

No.

"The truck, yet to be built would likely never operate outside of WA or BC (90% inside BC where the limit is 41ft) so places such as CA wouldn't really matter. And not to question what you have said but it seems odd that with a federal reg in place - how can a state such as CA impose something else? I was my understanding that states were not permitted to contravene a federal regulation. Did you ever try writing to the FMCSA for a ruling on the subject?"

As others have suggested, I would not be so quick to rule out CA. Once the truck is built, new opportunities may rise that might make it very attractive to run in and out of CA. Whatever you can do with 41 feet, you can do with 40. Unless there is something very, very golden about that extra one foot, I would think the operating flexibility that comes with 40 feet is worth building into the truck.

We did not write to FMCSA for a ruling. The rules were clear enough. I don't know much about the relationship between state and federal regs. Only that they create enough of a mess that for running a straight truck in 49 states and Canada, keeping the truck at 40 feet or less is wise.

 

[TeamCaffee]

I have looked at what pictures I have but do not have one of the lift gate from a back view of the truck. I will try to get a picture when it warms up some and get it posted.

 

[Suds43]

We also researched this subject and we are 40' from bumper to bumper so we had to buy a lift gate to accommodate the law. We have a lift gate that tucks completely under the truck, one of the nice things about our lift gate is many of the dock locks will hook onto our DOT bumper. So far we have only had one problem at a customer were they could not get a lock on us but all of us worked through the problem to get unloaded.

Now as Phil says we do not have to worry about an over length ticket and how to shrink our truck.

TeamCaffee, with your liftgate tucked completely under the truck, do you ever have a problem with snow and/or ice???? Just curious

 

[TeamCaffee]

Nope we have not had a problem with snow or ice building up on the lift gate. We have Air Tabs and that does help from having snow build up on the back doors. This could also help keep from the snow or ice getting on the lift from the back. The gate is 6' X 8' and folds in half as you use the controls to slide the gate to behind the truck if there was any snow on the gate you could knock it off. The gate is aluminum and very easy to unfold and also fold back into position and can be done with one hand.

 

[P51bombay]

Also, depending on what state you talked about, the reg was only good on national network roads, or maybe some state roads. We used the road that runs in front of our house as a test. Under our laws in Minnesota, the 40' 11" truck would be illegal the instant it left our driveway. The lift gate and dock bumpers that put it overlength, despite our instructions to build a truck no longer than 40 feet. When faced with the choice of accepting or rejecting an illegal truck, we rejected it and started over. The result is the truck we have now, which is 40 feet, zero inches long, exactly, including all so-called removable components (who removes dock bumpers or lift gates?).

So you're saying MN deems it legal on an Interstate or State Route but not surface streets?

As others have suggested, I would not be so quick to rule out CA. Once the truck is built, new opportunities may rise that might make it very attractive to run in and out of CA. Whatever you can do with 41 feet, you can do with 40. Unless there is something very, very golden about that extra one foot, I would think the operating flexibility that comes with 40 feet is worth building into the truck.

The reason I say that is the truck we now use (which will be replaced with the new one) operates locally between greater Vancouver and about 25 miles into WA state doing LTL for a customs broker. There has been some talk of a weekly run to Seattle and perhaps Portland but realistically I doubt either will happen as the truck would be deadheading back more often than not. The reason for that golden foot is getting 2 more skids inside - the current truck has a 24ft box and with the height prohibiting forklifts, it is maxed out at 12, the new one will be 102" high to allow forklifts in thus increasing the limit to 16. On most days the 12 is enough but there are enough days, such as today with 15 skids to put in and space for only 12, (second trip needed) that the extra space is justified.

This is all easy enough were it not for my wanting a sleeper, albeit a very small one. Option 1. T800 with a 38" aerocab flat top, this comes in barely under 40 with no lift or something that tucks completely under. Option 2. Intl 8600 extended cab - 9" under with complete tuck under or option three - An Argosy (apparently still available in a glider) with a 110" cab, 29ft box and railgate - but do I want to climb the thing numerous times a day? Trouble is I really like the KW, T8 or W9. Realistically the sleeper isn't going to earn a dime (other than opening up a rare regional run) so it may well end up a day cab, I guess a microwave and fridge can go in a side box. LOL

Incidentally, BC regs specifically point out that rubber bumpers are NOT to be included in length measurements, not that it matters though. They also seem a bit clearer as to what is/is not allowed.

 

[davekc]

I would agree with the other comments and stick to 40 feet or less. The cost of any litigation will out weigh any advantage that the extra length would bring.

If it becomes too imperative, just buy a tractor trailer and forget about a straight.

 

[wallytrucker1]

I had a long conversation with a commerical bear at the Banning, Ca. scale. He took his time and we went through tha Ca. Veh code, it's very clear on the 40' rule. I asked what they did when they captured one and he said "ticket, of course" I asked, then what,He said, hook or torch, your choice!!! dang,he was serious..