This hillbilly can sing when she isn't acting stupid.

Maverick

Seasoned Expediter
Natalie is famous for her flat voice, not just flat in dynamic range, but also tonality flat in the lower register, which is why she has to be very careful about the key she sings in.

Yes, I had to come up with someone quick. She is considered "flat voice" and I do know the difference, or similarities in this case. I'll give you that. :)

So when you say "her voice is flat, no range," you really don't know what you're talking about. Might be better if you just say you don't care for her and leave it at that, rather than trying to come up with ways to deride her.

Ya know Turtle? Don't really care how you depict it. Miley is average to a lot of people, within that range, and so far as popular becomes a factor?.....take Miley and run. Musical talent is just one factor, while I happen to believe Miley has no class, within those spoken parameters. You're right, I don't care for her "act" and don't believe for a minute she represents the range as others do.

If your niece is well trained in music, she should be able to instantly recognize the basic vocal type and range of any singer after about three notes, just from the tessitura and timber of the voice
.

She never trained....it just came natural. All of us kids can sing (with the exception of Uncle Joe) and you can break this down with the usual yawn and haw likeness. Miley's not a great singer, and history will prove that out. She's a creation of those who wish to keep the decadent America alive and well....in which you seem to be going right along with.

Nobody seems impressed with a rusted or crashed up 64 Mustang. Put a nice polish on, and some chrome wheels....got yourself some admirers. It's the exact same vehicle and within "range" but gathers much more attention when polished. Don't really care that much for Natalie either....but at least she shows some turtle wax.
 
Last edited:

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
When I stumbled across the Miley Cyrus rendition of "Jolene" on Youtube this morning, I hesitated to click on it for fear it would be a parody or just poorly done. Instead, I found a gem. Listening to other Backyard Session songs, affirmed this girl can deliver a song with the spirit intended. Moreover, and just as pleasing, was the poise and self confidence of a 21 year-old who knows unbiased listeners will judge her on the merits.

Dolly Parton is Miley's godmother, so we should expect her to sing "Jolene" straight up. Dolly was an early mentor to Billy Ray Cyrus. Appalachian twang resides in Miley's genetic makeup. Whether it is dominant or recessive, its presence lends itself to country or Bluegrass.
 

BobWolf

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
We already have that. The Vannin Blues Album:

Track 1......Workin for Nuthin
Track 2......Ain't Gettin Paid For Miles
Track 3......Take it Easy
Track 4......America the Beautiful
Track 5......Long Hard Road
Track 6......Gettin on the Forum
Track 7......Long Turtle Runnin
Track 8......No Lizards Allowed
Track 9......Long Way to Richmond
Track 10....Today is Only Yesterday's Tomorrow



Soo, when you going on tour?
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Ya know Turtle? Don't really care how you depict it.
I depict it honestly, intelligently and without bias.

Miley is average to a lot of people, within that range, and so far as popular becomes a factor?.....take Miley and run. Musical talent is just one factor, while I happen to believe Miley has no class, within those spoken parameters. You're right, I don't care for her "act" and don't believe for a minute she represents the range as others do.
Like I said before, I'm not much of a fan of hers. I don't like her musical style or her antics. But her style and antics have nothing to do with the fact that she can sing. To say that she "can't sing a lick," and that "her voice is flat, no range" is either disingenuous or ignorant, or both.

There are several singers where its hard to get past the antics and thus en up with the misconception that they can't sing. Miley is certainly one of them. Lady Gaga is another one. She is a fantastic singer, but it's hard to get at that through all the antics, erm, artistic expression. For example, stomach as much of this video as you can. 45-60 seconds should do it.


Then take a listen to the same song stripped down to just Gaga’s voice and piano as a ballad. In terms of emotion and musicianship, it’s far more intense than the original. Hard to believe it's the same singer.

Miley's not a great singer, and history will prove that out. She's a creation of those who wish to keep the decadent America alive and well....in which you seem to be going right along with.
I don't know why you'd say such a thing, since I've already said I'm not much of a fan of hers, unless it's because I can tell the difference between antics (even decadent antics) and whether or not someone has musical chops. No, Miley is not a great singer. She's good, but not great. Whether or not she becomes great will depend on if she can survive the antics of disposable popular music and let the musicianship and talent come through.

For example, one who hasn't been able to do that is Britney Spears, and it's because she's a marginal singer able to get by on her dancing and looks. The split second her looks to a bad turn, her musical career stopped cold. Now that she's got her looks back she's got a Vegas gig, albeit one where she lip syncs to 90 percent of the music. The day she has to rely solely on her singing ability is the day her career is over.

On the flip side is someone like Christina Aguilera who left the antics behind and stands alone on her vocal ability. Incidentally, she's a Coloratura Mezzo-Soprano (4 octaves plus 5 half notes) with an insane range of Bb2 through C#7.

Nobody seems impressed with a rusted or crashed up 64 Mustang. Put a nice polish on, and some chrome wheels....got yourself some admirers. It's the exact same vehicle and within "range" but gathers much more attention when polished. Don't really care that much for Natalie either....but at least she shows some turtle wax.
I know what you're saying, but no matter what condition a 64 Mustang is in, it's still a 64 Mustang. The problems come when you slap a fiberglass body of a 64 Mustang onto a Pinto. Looks pretty but just doesn't have what it takes under the hood. Kinda like Britney. But I wouldn't say that fits Miley, because in the end, she really can sing. Not great, like a Mustang, but she ain't no Pinto, either.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Every year (this year it was Feb 5-8) the KMEA (Kentucky Music Educators Association) has their annual conference. High school musicians from all over the state begin auditions at the end of October for the All State Chorus, Band and Orchestra (there's also a middle school and children's chorus). In January there is an intense 4 hour rehearsal in each of the 12 regions throughout the state to familiarize the musicians with the music and the event. The first two days of the KMEA conference is nothing but rehearsals, usually about 6 hours the first day and then 12 or 13 hours the second day. The third and final day is loaded with rehearsals leading up to the concert that evening.

I was in Ohio for high school, so I didn't participate in the KMEA conferences, but I did in the OMEA conferences in Columbus. The first three years in high school I was in the All State Band and All State Orchestra and All State Jazz Band, and my senior year I was in those three plus the All State Chorus. It made for a rather hectic rehearsal schedule considering the rehearsals for all four groups took place at more or less the same times. It was a blast.
 

Maverick

Seasoned Expediter

That was awesome. One instance where you could make a case for honest pride in country. Not the Nationalistic pride we see on display all the time, rather genuine love for country, born through spirit in victory.
 

Maverick

Seasoned Expediter
Hey BobWolf, was on tour with track #1 and #2 until we remedied that. We're going to roll into track 3 and 4 now, hoping for some real Expedite earnings. :D

OK Turtle, I'll give you a like for the point of view. However, the Thorn song was poorly done IMV and didn't even complete the viewing. She seemed to struggle through some of it, and live performance is often tough on singers. Brittney is a prime example of "cheating" with her voice, for sure.

Brought up Miss Merchant as a quick example of someone who does not seem to struggle while performing live. Cher, Christina, and others being in that same category. Faith Hill seems to struggle, and even Martina's voice drops in live performance.

In fairness, didn't even listen to Jolene because I really don't care for that song at all.....no matter who bellies it out. Outta the loop for the main part and don't even listen to music anymore. Van is silent while driving and tend to read during rest hours.

Miley could be an average talent and it depends on who's pushing the buttons. In this case, producers and performance moguls seem to have targeted her for the continued slide into decadence. When they're through with her, she'll be dumped for the next one in line. My "can't sing a lick" was more in comparison of those who excel.....and perhaps could have given her some credit, but it would be tough at this point.

Pulled her up on Utube last night and she sounded better on a few tracks. But alas, could not get through the performance itself.
 
Last edited:

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Miley could be an average talent and it depends on who's pushing the buttons. In this case, producers and performance moguls seem to have targeted her for the continued slide into decadence. When they're through with her, she'll be dumped for the next one in line.
Don't discount how much input she has in all this. It's not like she's young, naive and inexperienced and open to being manipulated and choreographed by producers. She's been in the business a long time and knows how it works. Among many, she has her dad and Dolly to make sure she isn't taken advantage of. During her Hanna Montana days (the pre-decline into decadence days, if you will) she put out several records for Disney and Hollywood Records. They all topped the charts, except for the last one.

At that time she didn't have a whole lot of artistic control over what she did, and when she wanted to go in a different direction (you know, the whole decadence route) Hollywood Records balked. In order to take control and do things her way, she dropped her label and signed a deal with RCA. But, RCA didn't want to give her much control, either. They freaked when they heard the first few tracks of her new album, because this was not the Miley Cyrus they signed. They threatened to not release the album, especially when they got their first view of the first video (We Can't Stop) from the single. She made a deal with them, telling them if it didn't work, they could have their way with her career. It was a big gamble.

"We're in a world of selfies," she said. "I told my label, 'This is the first time I'm showing you what I'm bringing to the table as an artist. If this goes wrong, you never have to trust me again. I'll be your little puppet. But if I'm right, then you know I'm on to something.'"

So this is pretty much all on her.
 

Maverick

Seasoned Expediter
Among many, she has her dad and Dolly to make sure she isn't taken advantage of.

Hmm.....I guess Daddy and Dolly (let's call them DD?) may come to the rescue, but what does it say about them approving of this behavior? Daddy seems a little concerned, and not so sure Miss Parton's involved?

"We're in a world of selfies," she said. "I told my label, 'This is the first time I'm showing you what I'm bringing to the table as an artist. If this goes wrong, you never have to trust me again. I'll be your little puppet. But if I'm right, then you know I'm on to something.'"

And just what is she bringing to the table? Got no dog in this hunt, and really could care less....but it begs a question? Why was this behavior not needed by former stars who could sing a bit? Used to enjoy Karen Carpenter (what a great voice) but don't recall her needing this current action to sell records. Put differently, what kind of populace admires this behavior and buys music in support of an average singer?

So this is pretty much all on her.

So she produces, directs, has her own studio, and tells her contract people what she's going to do? Peel back the layers, and this industry is just as corrupt and shameful as Hollyweird. She's really got some weight to be telling these heavy hitters, what she's going to do....and just sit back and enjoy the show? Maybe this poster is so out of the loop, we can't seem to wrap our head around that one. In any believable sense, anyway.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Hmm.....I guess Daddy and Dolly (let's call them DD?) may come to the rescue, but what does it say about them approving of this behavior? Daddy seems a little concerned, and not so sure Miss Parton's involved?
I don't think Dolly is involved in day-to-day decisions, but she's certainly got the juice to make sure Miley isn't taken advantage of. As far as what it says about them for approving this kind of behavior, I guess it says whatever judgement your own morality wants it to say.

And just what is she bringing to the table? Got no dog in this hunt, and really could care less....but it begs a question? Why was this behavior not needed by former stars who could sing a bit? Used to enjoy Karen Carpenter (what a great voice) but don't recall her needing this current action to sell records. Put differently, what kind of populace admires this behavior and buys music in support of an average singer?
What she brings to the table is her artistic expression. It's art. You know, art. And it's not about needing it to sell records, it's about expressing your art the way you want to. Picasso painted in the realistic manner during his childhood and adolescence, but then started experimenting with different theories, techniques and ideas in his late teens and beyond, coincidentally not unlike Miley Cyrus has done and is doing (and no, I'm not equating Picasso and Cyrus in terms of artistic ability). He certainly didn't start experimenting because he needed to do that to sell paintings, he did it because he needed to express himself in that manner.

I'm sure there are many fine examples of art, other than that of Miley Cyrus, that you don't care for or don't "get." Karen Carpenter's art is very different from Miley Cyrus, in exactly the same way that Picasso's art is different from Andy Warhol or Paul Gauguin, or Stevie Nicks is different from Ella Fitzgerald or Aretha Franklin.

So she produces, directs, has her own studio, and tells her contract people what she's going to do?
You're describing a one-woman show, which is not what I said at all. She doesn't produce, but she does hire the person who produces her albums, and does so to make sure the producer understands her vision for what she wants to accomplish. She doesn't direct, but she hires the director, for the same reason. She does have her own studio, but that's more for pre-production than for the actual recording, because it's way cheaper to use your own studio for rehearsals and working out the music than it is to pay the record label $10,000 an hour to use theirs. Likely, she is recording the master tracks in the RCA studios, but it could be a combination of several studios.

Peel back the layers, and this industry is just as corrupt and shameful as Hollyweird.
Oh, I've got some really angry stories I could tell about the music industry that would make Hollyweird look tame.

She's really got some weight to be telling these heavy hitters, what she's going to do....and just sit back and enjoy the show? Maybe this poster is so out of the loop, we can't seem to wrap our head around that one. In any believable sense, anyway.
Clearly you're out of the loop. It's not a "my way of the highway" deal from either side, although if it leans one way or the other, it leans in favor of the artist having more power, especially an artist who has established themselves as bankable. A record label signs an artist to a contract because the label wants that artist, and particularly in this Internet Age, the label needs the artist far more than the artist need the label. The contract is not an employment contract, it's a recording contract where the artist agrees to record x-number of tracks or albums, and the label agrees to promote and distribute the music. The level of artistic control the artist retains depends on the contract. But, it's not like you're in a house band and you play what you are told by the label (well, it kind of is like that for some, like boy bands, other groups like that). The label is hitching a ride on your art, for the money payoff, so they let you do pretty much whatever you want, as long as it's likely to make them money. They'll advise, but if you can't reconcile their recommendations with your art, or come to an agreement, you can walk.

Also, when you record a track for a label, the label owns the recording. They don't own the song, or anything else, but they own that particular recording of it. When the recording is played on the radio or a copy is sold in the store, the record label gets paid the royalty, not the artist. The label then pays the artist (and the writers of the song) their cut for the performance (at least that's how it's supposed to work <snort>). The lyrics and music writers get far more money than the performance artist (in Miley's case, she's usually the writer of the song, so she does get paid quite a bit per record). When an artist goes out on tour, with few exceptions, the record label make zero on that. They only time the label makes any money from a tour is (a) if they foot the bill for the tour or (b) any record sales that result from the tour. Often in a recording contract there is a clause that requires the artist to promote the album, either by media appearances or by a tour, or both. But the artist makes the bulk of their money not on record sales, but on tour money. They hook up with a tour company, or gather up their own sponsors, and hit the road. The artist calls the shots on the tour, the staging, how it's presented, all of it. The reason for a record deal for from an artist's perspective is to build a base that enables you to make money on tour.

A recording contract is an agreement between two parties, both of whom want to make you successful. Generally speaking, the advice a record label gives you is for your own good, and most artists will take heed of that advice.

As someone who recorded three albums for Epic records (now owned by The Pure Personification of Pure Evil - Sony Music), I can tell you that I had a considerable amount of artistic control, even during the first album, including selecting the producers (with the approval of the label). The second and third albums I pretty much had total artistic control. What went on the tracks is exactly what I wanted to go on there. The first album we recorded at Columbia Studios in NYC (Epic and Columbia were both divisions of CBS Records, now they're all owned by Pure Evil). The second and third albums we recorded at a recording studio in Cincinnati, because they were a fraction of what CBS charged for studio the Columbia studio time ($40 versus IIRC $900 and change). When you put in 150-300 hours on an album, it adds up.
 

Maverick

Seasoned Expediter
There's just something about that girl that makes me turn my head and look away.

Several accounts of an interview with papa...who states the family is being pursued by some opposite force....other than the one he prefers. FWIW, and can't confirm or deny that interview content. (I've learned to add such disclaimers).....working with Turtle. ;)

All of these stars have certain look about them, some good, some bad. Don't care for Miley"s "look" at all. As many aware women will tell you, the eyes say it all.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
There's just something about that girl that makes me turn my head and look away.

I know exactly how you feel.

Foodies035_zps828be802.jpg
 

Maverick

Seasoned Expediter
As far as what it says about them for approving this kind of behavior, I guess it says whatever judgement your own morality wants it to say.

We know the answer to that. LOL And we'll leave it at that.

I'm sure there are many fine examples of art, other than that of Miley Cyrus, that you don't care for or don't "get." Karen Carpenter's art is very different from Miley Cyrus

Oh, I get it alright. The don't care for...is same as above.

Oh, I've got some really angry stories I could tell about the music industry that would make Hollyweird look tame.

Well, spill it man. Or maybe better not. This site is accessed by those under 18, I believe. :)

Clearly you're out of the loop.

Probably. But there's some loops I left for a reason. Be that as it may.

Guess I can thank ole Miley for one thing? She helped pass the time while waiting on dispatch. Always good jawin with ya Turtle. Be safe.
 

Doggie Daddy

Veteran Expediter
Neither could Rod Stewart, Joe Cocker, Janice Joplin, etc, etc, etc . . .
That doesn't mean they were not talented.

I think a couple of those etc, etc ' s must be for Bob Dylan and Eric Clapton.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using EO Forums mobile app
 
Top