The Word of the Lord, according to Warren Jeffs

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
Fires his attornies, then reads this to the judge:

"I, the Lord of heaven, call upon the court to cease this open prosecution against my (sic) pure, holy way."

He continued by saying that if the trial continued, God said, "I will send a scourge upon the counties of prosecutorial zeal to make humbled by sickness and death."

I'm sure the judge is quaking in his boots.
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
I don't call him a Christian...That is insulting to Christians
he is a wacky cult leader

Perhaps this is relevant to Turtle's post, too, but even if he weren't part of a wacky cult, he'd still be part of a mainstream cult. I mean, his cult is an offshoot of another cult that's one step wackier than the first. Even the first cult rolls their eyes at the offshoot, so it has nothing to do with Christianity.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Every church is a cult, yes, even Christian churches. Look up the definition of cult. The icky bad meaning is a relatively new entry into the dictionaries.

Be that as it may, Christians (some, or even many) of them go wild and wacky all the time. When it's toooo wacky people will say things like, "He's not a true Christian," or "He's not a real Christian," or more bluntly "He's not a Christian at all."

Yet... he is.

Christians run the gamut from the "normal" Christians, whatever that is, to some goober quoting God in front of a judge, to the yahoos who handle snakes up on Sand Mountain, to protesting funerals for fun and profit. When one or more goes bad, they are dismissed as not Christians. Ironically, the same Christians who so easily dismiss the wild and wacky of the faith will lump all Muslims in with the crazies, because, you know, all Muslims are alike, and they all read the same book. If you so that, then all Christians are alike, for the same reasons. 1234
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
Every church is a cult, yes, even Christian churches. Look up the definition of cult. The icky bad meaning is a relatively new entry into the dictionaries.

Yes, I read the definition after you previously posted something about the definition of a cult. But we all know what definition is in play here.

Be that as it may, Christians (some, or even many) of them go wild and wacky all the time. When it's toooo wacky people will say things like, "He's not a true Christian," or "He's not a real Christian," or more bluntly "He's not a Christian at all."

Yet... he is.

No, he's not.

Bring a Christian, while something that isn't apparent (we dont have pointed ears like Vulcans or grow a tail or develop a pattern of freckles or something visible) isn't amorphous or subjective. One is regenerate or one is not.

Alternately, one may depart from the faith, as I suspect of some here. So it is quite possible to be a Christian and then later adopt a heretical position which places one outside of Christendom. Such a person would be one thought of us one of those crazy guys outside of the faith. Think Ted Armstrong or someone like that whose doctrine can't be reconciled with Christian doctrine. That's the case with Warren Jeffs and his group.

There are some outward signs, but they're not visible, physical ones.

But here's the bottom line. Mormonism is not a Christian denomination. It's a cult in the modern sense of the word. Like Jeffs, their doctrine can't be reconciled with Christianity.

Offshoots of mormonism, ones that consider themselves fundamental or orthodox, are not Christian denominations, whether they believe themselves to be or not.

Want to know if a stick is crooked? Place it alongside a straight stick and compare.

If you were to write down every mormon our FLDS doctrine, you'd find some that would be valid and orthodox. You'd find some that would appear to be, but use alternate definitions of terms that change things. And them you'd find a handful that are, on their face, wholly incompatible with essential Christian doctrine.

Christians run the gamut from the "normal" Christians, whatever that is, to some goober quoting God in front of a judge,

It's not so much quoting the Bible in front of a judge that's crazy, though it's probably not a first-rate legal strategy. But there are absolutely ZERO prophets today. Zero. So when a guy stands up and says, "Thus sayeth the Lord," unless he then quotes from scripture, he's departed from the truth. He may be crazy, he may be a charlatan, or he may just be well-intentioned, sincere, and wrong, as are the snake handlers you mention.

But what places this particular loon in the crazy/evil camp are his beliefs or claims (who knows if he sincerely believes them) that God communicates directly through him, and that he occupies a place in which God will essentially send down fire to consume his enemies, and in defense of sin, yet. That's what separates him from someone a Christian who's sincere and merely wrong. Jeffs is either mentally ill if he truly believes what he's saying, or pure evil otherwise. Well, he's already pure evil for molesting those girls, but in regard to his claims of God speaking the warning to the judge through him.

to protesting funerals for fun and profit. When one or more goes bad, they are dismissed as not Christians.

We are told who genuine Christians are. The world can identify Christians by their love, which would preclude the Kansas crazies from being lumped in with us. Christians can identify other Christians by the fruit of the Spirit--specific characteristic evidence that they're changing.

Ironically, the same Christians who so easily dismiss the wild and wacky of the faith will lump all Muslims in with the crazies, because, you know, all Muslims are alike, and they all read the same book. If you so that, then all Christians are alike, for the same reasons. 1234

Well, there's another factor.

Muslims, all of them, have placed a man above Christ. They believe in Christ, but they believe Him to be subordinate to their false prophet and child molester, Mohammed. Hey, he's got something in common with Warren Jeffs! They're both false prophets and child molesters! (Before anyone protests, it's a historical fact that Mohammed married a 6-year-old child and consummated that "marriage" when his victim was nine.)

So the fact that they, as a doctrine of their faith, believe that Christ is subordinate to Mohammed is what lumps them all together. Whether one might be a good neighbor or not might be another matter, but it's hardly important in the grand scheme of things.

When you consider that their religion is evil (subordinating Christ to Mohammed), how can you not lump them together? Whether they all want to blow up an airport pales in comparison.
 

TJ959

Veteran Expediter
I have to point out that it's much easier to label a person of faith. A guy who is a plain ol zipperhead wack job but has no given religion is just a wack job. If he professes some sort of faith then he is a fanatic. Seems to me a wack job is a wack job. I wouldn't rush to put a lable on someone unless your ultimate goal is to insult. If that is your goal then this ceases to be a debate and becomes plain old sneering. There have been many terrible things done in the name of some great cause or not so great cause. I'm not saying I don't have my own petty fears and prejudices. I just try not to inflict them on other people.
 

Dakota

Veteran Expediter
And to correct Turtle a little
a Church is a building
I think you were talking about religion which their are many
 

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
I have to point out that it's much easier to label a person of faith. A guy who is a plain ol zipperhead wack job but has no given religion is just a wack job. If he professes some sort of faith then he is a fanatic. Seems to me a wack job is a wack job. I wouldn't rush to put a lable on someone unless your ultimate goal is to insult. If that is your goal then this ceases to be a debate and becomes plain old sneering. There have been many terrible things done in the name of some great cause or not so great cause. I'm not saying I don't have my own petty fears and prejudices. I just try not to inflict them on other people.

Zipperedhead wack job people: I was taught by some in college, they had PHDs, PILED HIGH AND DEEP. IMHO
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
And to correct Turtle a little
a Church is a building
Yes, A church is a building, but that's not the sole definition. When people talk about "the Catholic Church," they are not talking about a specific building somewhere. They are talking about the whole body of Catholic believers.

"Church" is a building for public Christian worship, or the public or private gathering for worship of God or a religious service, or the whole body including separate denominations of Christian believers, a.k.a., Christendom.
I think you were talking about religion which their are many
Actually I was, and should have been more inclusive instead of limiting it to just Christians, as all religions with systems of worship which contain rites and ceremonies are, indeed, cults.

The icky bad definition of cult (the "modern" definition) was codified and popularized in the 1940's primarily by the Catholics (ironically), but were quickly joined by the other established Christian denominations who also held the equally long-standing opposition and disdain of non-Christian religions or/and heretical Christian sects. They and their goals became known as the "Christian countercult movement" and they believed that all new religious groups deemed outside of the mainstream, accepted, and normal Christian traditional orthodoxy were considered "cults". As more foreign religious traditions found their way into the United States, the religious movements they brought with them attracted even fiercer resistance which is in clear evidence today, as is excellently illustrated by one of the replies above. ;)
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I have to point out that it's much easier to label a person of faith. A guy who is a plain ol zipperhead wack job but has no given religion is just a wack job. If he professes some sort of faith then he is a fanatic. Seems to me a wack job is a wack job.
Well, yeah, a wack job is a wack job, and only a wack job, right up until the point where they introduce some belief or agenda into their wackiness. For example, Timothy McVeigh was an Army veteran, a security guard, a Catholic, a Republican, a militia sympathizer who visited Waco during the standoff and related his anger over the whole thing to a reporter. He could have been labeled a wacko-any of the above; a wacko security guard, a wacko Army veteran, a wacko Republican, a wacko Christian... but the T-shirt he wore which had the "liberty tree" with the blood of patriots and tyrants dripping from its branches kind of made it hard to label him a wacko Christian. He was labeled a Waco Wacko, because that's what he used for his wackage.

Someone who is a religious wacko, you can't just remove the religion from the wackiness equation simply because you'd rather not have the two associated with each other. Very few Christians, for example, are willing to separate the Muslim from the wacko extremist, and will use all manner of rationalizations to not do so, yet most will readily separate the Christian from the wacko, and will use all manner of rationalizations to do so.
 

cranis

Expert Expediter
Driver
Ok I do not believe he is of God, at least the one I know.
I do not believe in what he is doing.
But what I want to know is How can this guy be sane to want more than 1 wife.
I can barley handle 1 much less 2 or 3...
Just sayin
 

garyatk

Seasoned Expediter
Warren Jeffs is not a Christian, and neither are most who profess to be. You can easily tell by how they act, and please don't let how these people act influence your feelings about God. They don't know Him...

Just my humble opinion, and all I will say...
 
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