The Trump Card...

[ATeam]

What is the average penalty routinely applied for parading in a government building?

I do not know the answer to your question, but it is off point, is it not? I have not paid close attention to the charges made concerning what went on at the Capitol on January 6, but I do not recall a single one of them being "parading in a government building."

This man, filmed gouging the eyes of a police officer at the Capitol on January 6, was not charged with parading in a government building. He is facing charges of assaulting, resisting or impeding officers with a deadly weapon, obstruction of law enforcement, knowingly entering a restricted building or grounds without lawful authority with a weapon, disorderly and disruptive conduct in a restrictive building or grounds with a weapon, engaging in physical violence in a restrictive building or grounds, and violent entry and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds.”

The photo is but one bit of the total amount of evidence prosecutors have. Do you think those charges are proportional, not proportional, improperly applied or properly applied?

 

[muttly]

I do not know the answer to your question, but it is off point, is it not? I have not paid close attention to the charges made concerning what went on at the Capitol on January 6, but I do not recall a single one of them being "parading in a government building."

This man, filmed gouging the eyes of a police officer at the Capitol on January 6, was not charged with parading in a government building. He is facing charges of assaulting, resisting or impeding officers with a deadly weapon, obstruction of law enforcement, knowingly entering a restricted building or grounds without lawful authority with a weapon, disorderly and disruptive conduct in a restrictive building or grounds with a weapon, engaging in physical violence in a restrictive building or grounds, and violent entry and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds.”

The photo is but one bit of the total amount of evidence prosecutors have. Do you think those charges are proportional, not proportional, improperly applied or properly applied?



View attachment 20837

You haven't been paying attention so you wouldn’t know and can’t even make a distinction between what this person did which is an obvious an assault to do great bodily harm and many others that were not with this person but were walking in a building and not asssulting anyone.
Do you think many in this crowd should be charged with the same offense as the picture you presented? If so, why?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1441191853869522952

 

[RLENT]

What is the average penalty routinely applied for parading in a government building?

During a riot ?

Or during peaceful conditions ?

 

[RLENT]

Huh?
What in the world are you talking about?

Personally, I think we should start referring to it as "The Big Cry" ... or possibly "The Big (Incessant_ Whine" ... from the twice impeached, one-term POTUS who is a poor, sad loser ...

 

[ATeam]

You haven't been paying attention so you wouldn’t know and can’t even make a distinction between what this person did which is an obvious an assault to do great bodily harm and many others that were not with this person but were walking in a building and not asssulting anyone.
Do you think many in this crowd should be charged with the same offense as the picture you presented? If so, why?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1441191853869522952

No, I do not agree that the people in the video you shared should be charged with the same crimes the eye-gouging guy was charged with. Of course they should not be so charged. They did not do what the other guy did.

I'm glad to see you agree that the eye-gouging guy was appropriately charged. And I hope you notice that those merely walking around were not charged with assault or other crimes of violence.

You are correct. I have not been paying close attention to what various people in the Capitol were charged with concerning Jan 6. But I do know there is a difference between walking on a plot of land, and walking on one that is posted "No Trespassing." At our gym, it's not a crime to walk into the place ... unless you are a certain person who has been previously ordered to leave and to whom the police have issued a trespass citation. If that guy returns, it's a crime.

So too with the Capitol, I presume. Looking now, I see one of the charges being made against some of the people is "Entering or remaining in a restricted building or grounds." If the Capitol building was in fact restricted at the time, such a charge would be appropriate, would it not?

Some might say no because other people who did the same thing at different times were not so charged. That argument carries no weight. Six people drive drunk away from a bar on the same night, but only you get pulled over and charged. Your charge is not dismissed because the other five were not charged. For whatever reason, you attracted police attention, you were committing a crime, and you were busted.

In court, you might argue, "But Your Honor, what about the others who were not charged?" He or she will say this is not about them. This is about you.

 

[muttly]

No, I do not agree that the people in the video you shared should be charged with the same crimes the eye-gouging guy was charged with. Of course they should not be so charged. They did not do what the other guy did.

I'm glad to see you agree that the eye-gouging guy was appropriately charged. And I hope you notice that those merely walking around were not charged with assault or other crimes of violence.

You are correct. I have not been paying close attention to what various people in the Capitol were charged with concerning Jan 6. But I do know there is a difference between walking on a plot of land, and walking on one that is posted "No Trespassing." At our gym, it's not a crime to walk into the place ... unless you are a certain person who has been previously ordered to leave and to whom the police have issued a trespass citation. If that guy returns, it's a crime.

So too with the Capitol, I presume. Looking now, I see one of the charges being made against some of the people is "Entering or remaining in a restricted building or grounds." If the Capitol building was in fact restricted at the time, such a charge would be appropriate, would it not?

Some might say no because other people who did the same thing at different times were not so charged. That argument carries no weight. Six people drive drunk away from a bar on the same night, but only you get pulled over and charged. Your charge is not dismissed because the other five were not charged. For whatever reason, you attracted police attention, you were committing a crime, and you were busted.

In court, you might argue, "But Your Honor, what about the others who were not charged?" He or she will say this is not about them. This is about you.

Your analogy doesn’t work because of this: With the Kavanaugh protests there were arrests, the punishment for them was no jail time and a small fine. The capitol protests some have already been in jail many months already for non violent offenses.Two standards of justice and one disproportional to the other.

 

[ATeam]

I do not know the answer to your question, but it is off point, is it not? I have not paid close attention to the charges made concerning what went on at the Capitol on January 6, but I do not recall a single one of them being "parading in a government building."

I stand corrected. Now looking at this source to see what has been charged, "parading, demonstrating or picketing in a Capitol building" has been charged.

Like you, I find this to be a curious charge. Demonstrations in the Capitol are common. Why would people be charged for this on January 6 but not at other times? Or, if there have been other times when such charges were laid, what were the circumstances and what were those outcomes?

The people so charged for their Jan 6 activities, will certainly make their arguments in court. It will be interesting to see how the debate goes between the prosecution and defense, and to see what the findings are.

It never even occurred to me that it is a crime to parade, demonstrate or picket in a Capitol building. But I guess such a law is on the books. We'll soon learn if this law holds up in court.

 

[danthewolf00]

In that video you see people climbing through a window which is what all the news channels showed not the wide angle you see of the people calmly walking in with the cops just standing there......
There was 2 groups jan 6th......one peaceful gathering and one wtf are you doing group.

 

[ATeam]

Digging a little deeper, I found this in one of the charging documents:

"The U.S. Capitol is secured 24 hours a day by U.S. Capitol Police. Restrictions around the
U.S. Capitol include permanent and temporary security barriers and posts manned by U.S. Capitol
Police. Only authorized people with appropriate identification were allowed access inside the U.S.
Capitol. On January 6, 2021, the exterior plaza of the U.S. Capitol was also closed to members of
the public."

It seems the Capitol building was indeed restricted on Jan 6. Thus all of the people in the walking around video you pointed me to above could be appropriately charged with the crime of entering or remaining in a restricted building or grounds, since they did in fact enter or remain in a restricted building or grounds without authorization (the prosecutors say).

 

[ATeam]

In that video you see people climbing through a window which is what all the news channels showed not the wide angle you see of the people calmly walking in with the cops just standing there......
There was 2 groups jan 6th......one peaceful gathering and one wtf are you doing group.

And all in the building and beyond certain points in the plaza were in restricted areas without authorization. It seems that those who committed crimes of violence have been so charged. Others have also been charged, but not with crimes of violence.

This is not going well for the people who were there. To date, 654 people have been charged. 74 have entered guilty pleas. It is said that self-appointed internet sleuths have culled out of that day's photos and footage over 2,000 photos of people who were there. Those photos are now being widely shared online in the attempt to identify those people and thereby assist law enforcement in arresting and prosecuting them.

 

[ATeam]

Muttly, regarding proportionality, a review of this document suggests that the charges and penalties are proportional to the crimes. Notice that several have been cooperating with prosecutors. One was sentenced to time served. One got no time but probation instead.

 

[danthewolf00]

Yet the blm and antifa thugs that set fire to a federal court house in Seattle, Washington are not charged at all......Democrat double standard at play.

 

[Ragman]

Yet the blm and antifa thugs that set fire to a federal court house in Seattle, Washington are not charged at all......Democrat double standard at play.

What aboutism at it's finest.

 

[muttly]

What aboutism at it's finest.

What about us mid about applying the same standard equally.

 

[muttly]

What aboutism at it's finest.

Whataboutism is about applying the same standard equally.

 

[Ragman]

Whataboutism is about applying the same standard equally.

Which is exactly what is being attempted every time Portland is brought up.

 

[ATeam]

While I've been unimpressed with Seattle's and Portland's approach to law enforcement, prosecutions are taking place, mostly because the feds stepped in. Where crimes are committed, prosecutions are important, without regard to party or political views.

Federal prosecutors take over Seattle protester cases, concerning local attorneys

Amid Seattle protests, federal prosecutors target arson and firearms cases; critics call charges politicized

www.kuow.org

 

[muttly]

While I've been unimpressed with Seattle's and Portland's approach to law enforcement, prosecutions are taking place, mostly because the feds stepped in. Where crimes are committed, prosecutions are important, without regard to party or political views.

Federal prosecutors take over Seattle protester cases, concerning local attorneys

Amid Seattle protests, federal prosecutors target arson and firearms cases; critics call charges politicized

www.kuow.org

This article is from a year ago. Prosecutors currently recommending 3 years for arson. Sentencing next week.

 

[RLENT]

Just re-upping this, in case you missed it Mutt:

What is the average penalty routinely applied for parading in a government building? Is it 6 months or 4 years? Probation? Charges dismissed?
Now check the charges that were administered or lack there of people parading and protesting in government buildings during the Kavanaugh hearings and find the sentencing and penalties that were given to them. They're non existent.
Eye of the beholder of prosecutors( viewed thru partisan lenses) metting out disproportionate penalties for the same act. Is that blind justice?

If the previous 300 people delivering to the same area were also given a warning that would be proportional. If the previous ones were shot at and not given a warning except you that would be disproportionate.

During a riot ?

Or during peaceful conditions ?

 

[RLENT]

This article is from a year ago. Prosecutors currently recommending 3 years for arson. Sentencing next week.

In light of the particular and attendant circumstances for that specific case, how does that (recommendation) comport with Federal Sentencing Guideline for what's charged ?