Not me....... I'm still a skeptic. The Repubs have a lot to prove.
The Trump Card...
- Thread starter muttly
- Start date
If one wants to riot, there will be consequences .
Pictures of your face being plastered all over the news gets you fired from your job or arrested for insurrection . If one wants change then run for public office of your choice. There is no future running off with Nancy's podium,,,lol, goodness what small men will do for excitement these days,,,me,,I'm going bike ridding when the sunshine comes out..................good day.
I don't think the war and MAGA army talk this video uses is helpful, and I'm not buying into it. It is inaccurate and irresponsible to paint MAGA with a broad brush and label all of them domestic terrorists.
That is not to say there is no domestic terror threat to fear in the MAGA ranks. But I think those militia types -- a component of American society that has been around as long as I can remember -- have simply found a new home and new outlet under the Donald Trump flag. These domestic terrorists have increased in number and activity in the encouraging environment Trump provided. That trend will reverse as MAGA and Trump fade; and as law enforcement and a citizen tipsters close in.
Longer term, it will also fade as America's population continues to move toward whites becoming less than the majority, and people of color continue to develop their political skills and muscle. Georgia is a good case in point. This red state just elected a Jew and an African American to the U.S. Senate. That's not the kind of thing that makes right-wing domestic terrorists happy, but they are showing no ability to stop it either.
Sadly, I think we'll see an increased number of terrorist attacks on American targets from these MAGA-hat-wearing Americans. Wearing MAGA hats gives these terrorists legitimacy they would not otherwise have, but that does not make them MAGA people. It is wise to note that even some of Trump's most committed supporters in Congress, and many commentators on the conservative news outlets are calling for the insurrections to be hunted down, prosecuted and jailed.
We've seen attacks by right-wing domestic terrorists in the Oklahoma City bombing of 1995 and various black church and Jewish synagogue attacks for decades. Those are horrible but they do not disrupt government. They do not create widespread fear of subsequent attacks. And they are not done by your garden-variety MAGA person. They are done by people who operate on pure hate and derive satisfaction from killing their fellow Americans.
These people have the ability to do great harm, but not in a way that threatens America or democracy; especially now that their inspirational leader is out in a day and already greatly diminished in influence and popular support.
That man is Donald Trump, the man who refused to concede he lost the election and failed to provide proof he won; and the man who created the circumstances that led to a literal insurrection precicely timed to physically stop the peaceful transfer of power from one president to the next. At noon tomorrow, he's out. At noon tomorrow he will be on the defensive for years as he deals with his second impeachment and a host of lawsuits and criminal charges. And he will be systematically undercut by the skilled political operatives of the dozen or so Republicans who want Trump out of the way so they can run for president in 2024. If MAGA people get involved in a war, it will be a political war to retain and/or solidify their control of the Republican Party.
In that regard, I think Trump and his MAGA followers are in good shape. Party leaders are elected by the party members who are delegates that attend state party conventions. Delegates are selected locally at meetings attended by people who are more politically active than the average citizen. Only the politically active give up their evenings and weekends to attend local party meetings. The MAGA people have the time, energy and inclination to do this. Indeed, they already have in many if not most states. Trump people are in firm control of local and state Republican Party entities. That will continue as long as Trump wants such control and his followers are willing to act.
To the surprise of many, including myself, Trump defeated a string of Republican establishment candidates to obtain the Republican Party nomination. Some of those elites are never-Trumpers. Some came over to Trump's side because Trump won, but they do not love Trump like MAGA people do. All of the Republican elites are outsiders as far as current party control is concerned. They do not have the grass-roots supporters Trump does; the kind of supporters needed to obtain and retain party control.
Nevertheless. the Republican Party will be weaker because of Trump, not stronger. It will decline in strength as it drifts more toward Trump, their hero, than toward policies and candidates more closely aligned with the politics of ordinary citizens. Georgia elected two Democratic senators. Arizona elected two Democratic senators. Both states have Republican parties firmly controlled by Trump supporters whose vision is focused more on Trump than anything else.
As the militia types see Trump diminish as a leadership figure and feel the pressure of law enforcement and tipsters, they will retreat back into their dark corners and reinforce their world view with their usual meetings in hiding where more talk than action is generated. The MAGA "army" the video refers to does not exist. There is no organized force. There is no commander directing specific actions. There is no chain of command. There is no force capable of conducting operations effective enough to overthrow the government and place a dictator in power. The militia types are not of one mind. Individuals belong to a variety of groups representing a variety of ideologies. Trump inspired them to gather at various events and all of them think Trump was the best president they ever had. But these groups will not coalesce into a unified MAGA army. Their differing ideologies will ensure that.
Some made efforts in the Jan 6. insurrection. With advance planning, and encouragement from the president, they arrived in Washington dressed in combat gear with a gallows they quickly erected on Capitol grounds, and with pipe bombs and firebombs ready. But these resources were not coordinated. There was no command-and-control. The violence and weaponry were brought by disparate individuals and groups. The resources of war then present were not effectively used.
The insurrection failed. The election was certified by Congress. And, ironically, 25,000 troops who are under Donald Trump's command are now deployed to protect a sacred ceremony of democracy (the inauguration) from being disrupted by Trump supporters.
America stands strong. The insurrectionists are in jail, in hiding or turning themselves in. The Capitol is secure and functioning. The Constitution remains intact. Democracy continues.
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RLENT
Veteran Expediter
That's fine - you're entitled to your opinion.
But you are incorrect - there is no mention in that video of a "MAGA army" - that was (apparently) your own inference.
I saw a video that was pretty precise in who it was targeting: those followers of Donald Trump who are willing to engage in lawless acts of violence and domestic terrorism.
I have no disagreement with that sentiment ... I just don't think it applies in this particular instance.
Please tell me where/at what point "MAGA" was mentioned in the video.
I remain hopeful.
True.
OTOH, you can expect to see a whole bunch of legislation from Republican-controlled statehouses in the coming months under the rubric of safeguarding against "voter fraud".
In actual fact, those efforts will be targeted towards just making it more difficult for POC's to vote.
To do anything less would be sheer political suicide.
Agree.
One can only hope (I see it as an upside - a party at war with itself is less of a threat to the body politic)
Agree.
Well, leaving aside the "MAGA army" which is an inaccurate moniker, I know there are cells with an organized command and control structure.
You can call them whatever you'd like: militias, Oath Keepers, Proud Boys, III Percenters, etc.
They do in fact exist and while there may be no single, organized, central command and control structure over all of them, I certainly wouldn't sell them short on coordinating in perpetrating further violence.
Agreed.
The issue isn't so much that they can organize and overthrow the government and place a dictator in power, as much as it is, the amount of violence and havoc they can cause.
Hopeful thoughts.
I sincerely hope they are justified by future events.
Mitch McConnell:
“The mob was fed lies,” McConnell said on the Senate floor on the last full day of Trump’s presidency. “They were provoked by the president and other powerful people. And they tried to use fear and violence to stop a specific proceeding of the first branch of the federal government which they did not like. But we pressed on.” (Source)
“The mob was fed lies,” McConnell said on the Senate floor on the last full day of Trump’s presidency. “They were provoked by the president and other powerful people. And they tried to use fear and violence to stop a specific proceeding of the first branch of the federal government which they did not like. But we pressed on.” (Source)
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Coordination, if not command and control ...
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RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Regardless, I take your point.
Most supporters of the President will likely feel that it's aimed at them (their inference)
They ought to contemplate WHY that is.
Coordination or command and control, that's not the point. Notice the size of the group. It's tiny. Notice their outcome. They failed. Notice their fate. They are arrested and charged. As with that group, so too with all or most other militia-types, I believe. There are a bunch of them but they are not united in ideology or purpose; and other than planting an occasional bomb or shooting up or torching the occasional church, they are ineffective. And if they do launch an attack, they succeed only in drawing law enforcement attention and public enmity to themselves.
The Trump insurrection has captured the headlines in recent days. COVID-19 is also part of the Trump story that will be forever told. This from the Associated Press:
As President Donald Trump entered the final year of his term last January, the U.S. recorded its first confirmed case of COVID-19. Not to worry, Trump insisted, his administration had the virus “totally under control.”
Now, in his final hours in office, after a year of presidential denials of reality and responsibility, the pandemic’s U.S. death toll has eclipsed 400,000. And the loss of lives is accelerating.
As President Donald Trump entered the final year of his term last January, the U.S. recorded its first confirmed case of COVID-19. Not to worry, Trump insisted, his administration had the virus “totally under control.”
Now, in his final hours in office, after a year of presidential denials of reality and responsibility, the pandemic’s U.S. death toll has eclipsed 400,000. And the loss of lives is accelerating.
danthewolf00
Veteran Expediter
Yea trump got operation warp speed signed and a vaccine in under a year.... Democrats said it couldn't be done
Trump got 450+miles of wall built......Democrats blocked funding for it and said it was to expensive to build
Democrats did NOTHING to stop blm and antifa.....but Republicans get grumpy and they need 25k troops to protect them.....
Trump got 450+miles of wall built......Democrats blocked funding for it and said it was to expensive to build
Democrats did NOTHING to stop blm and antifa.....but Republicans get grumpy and they need 25k troops to protect them.....
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
He also got 400,000 killed ... due to his lack of character and sheer incompetence.
And it ain't over yet.
They're saying that it could hit 500K in the next 30 days.
Face it: in some respects, he's actually a complete moron.
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Turn off OAN, NewsMax, and Fox News ... your life will go better I'm sure and the amount of butthurt you're presently experiencing will reduce substantially.
danthewolf00
Veteran Expediter
Trump has talked to associates about forming a new political party
I do not see it as likely that Trump will break ranks with the Republican Party to start a party of his own named the Patriot Party, but it is interesting that the idea, and even the party name, has crossed his mind.
This is not the first time Trump has considered a third party. In 1999, he formed an exploratory committee for a run for president in the 2000 election. He then aligned with the Reform Party. That effort came to an end in February, 2000, when the Reform Party splintered in a fight between members who advocated more democracy in the party and members who were more authoritarian-minded and wanted the party to stay under the control of its founder, Ross Perot, out of whose 1992 presidential campaign the Reform Party originated. When the Reform Party splintered, Trump declared it "a mess" and ended his presidential exploratory committee activities. (Full story here)
I do not see it as likely that Trump will break ranks with the Republican Party because the Republican Party has three things a new third party would not immediately have; (1) ballot access, (2) a large base of voters who identify as loyal party members that have voted for party-endorsed candidates for years, and (3) an established base of financial contributors that fund the party offices, operations and salaries of party officials. They also have a whole bunch of Republican incumbents in public office now in Washington, DC, all states, and a host of local governments.
At present, Trump supporters are in firm control of the Republican Party. Even if the party fades as Trump fades, asking party leaders to let go of their ballot access, cash flow and jobs to follow Trump to a new Patriot Party is a big ask. As a new party, a Patriot Party would not have ballot access, which means if Trump or other party candidates wanted to run, they would need to do the extra and unfair work required of minor-party and independent candidates just to get on the ballot in the first place. The Democrats and Republicans write the laws about who has ballot access, so they make it easy for them and hard for others.
In addition to the ballot access challenges, new Patriot Party members and leaders would also have to overcome the conventional wisdom that "third parties never work." Though, it is interesting to note that the Republican Party began as a third party, and third parties have had important victories and/or impacts from time to time.
I see such a move as unlikely, but we can never underestimate Trump's ego. A new party formed by Trump would be a pure Trump party; one where he would be its undisputed head and no one would join who did not support Trump. A legal argument can be made that ballot access from a previous major candidate should follow the candidate to the next election. A Patriot Party effort would not be groundless or without precedent.
This is an unlikely move, yes; but impossible? No. Ross Perot got on the ballot in all 50 states in 1992. Trump could mobilize his MAGA people to do the required petition drives to achieve the same.
I do not see it as likely that Trump will break ranks with the Republican Party to start a party of his own named the Patriot Party, but it is interesting that the idea, and even the party name, has crossed his mind.
This is not the first time Trump has considered a third party. In 1999, he formed an exploratory committee for a run for president in the 2000 election. He then aligned with the Reform Party. That effort came to an end in February, 2000, when the Reform Party splintered in a fight between members who advocated more democracy in the party and members who were more authoritarian-minded and wanted the party to stay under the control of its founder, Ross Perot, out of whose 1992 presidential campaign the Reform Party originated. When the Reform Party splintered, Trump declared it "a mess" and ended his presidential exploratory committee activities. (Full story here)
I do not see it as likely that Trump will break ranks with the Republican Party because the Republican Party has three things a new third party would not immediately have; (1) ballot access, (2) a large base of voters who identify as loyal party members that have voted for party-endorsed candidates for years, and (3) an established base of financial contributors that fund the party offices, operations and salaries of party officials. They also have a whole bunch of Republican incumbents in public office now in Washington, DC, all states, and a host of local governments.
At present, Trump supporters are in firm control of the Republican Party. Even if the party fades as Trump fades, asking party leaders to let go of their ballot access, cash flow and jobs to follow Trump to a new Patriot Party is a big ask. As a new party, a Patriot Party would not have ballot access, which means if Trump or other party candidates wanted to run, they would need to do the extra and unfair work required of minor-party and independent candidates just to get on the ballot in the first place. The Democrats and Republicans write the laws about who has ballot access, so they make it easy for them and hard for others.
In addition to the ballot access challenges, new Patriot Party members and leaders would also have to overcome the conventional wisdom that "third parties never work." Though, it is interesting to note that the Republican Party began as a third party, and third parties have had important victories and/or impacts from time to time.
I see such a move as unlikely, but we can never underestimate Trump's ego. A new party formed by Trump would be a pure Trump party; one where he would be its undisputed head and no one would join who did not support Trump. A legal argument can be made that ballot access from a previous major candidate should follow the candidate to the next election. A Patriot Party effort would not be groundless or without precedent.
This is an unlikely move, yes; but impossible? No. Ross Perot got on the ballot in all 50 states in 1992. Trump could mobilize his MAGA people to do the required petition drives to achieve the same.
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