The Federal Reserve, Friend or Foe?

ratwell71

Veteran Expediter
How many believe that if our dollar gains strength that oil prices will drop? Albeit dependence on foreign oil is a separate issue.
 

ratwell71

Veteran Expediter
Who was Wright Patman?

Wright Patman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"We have what is known as the Federal Reserve Bank System. That system is not owned by the Government. Many people think that it is because it says “Federal Reserve.” It belongs to private banks, private corporations. So we have farmed out to the Federal Reserve Banking System that which is owned exclusively, wholly, one hundred percent to the private banks—we have farmed out to them the privilege of issuing the Government’s money!"

"The dollar represents a one dollar debt to the Federal Reserve System. The Federal Reserve Banks create money out of thin air to buy Government Bonds from the U.S. Treasury ... and has created out of nothing a ... debt which the American people are
obliged to pay with interest."
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I am all for ending the Feds reign but it can't be done today. I think a better thing to do is to eliminate the income tax and replace it but....

The part that many don't get is that in order to change it we need to have something happen that forces us to actually replace or have a serious revaluation of the dollar which will put the rest of the world in a downward spiral into a real depression that may be longer than 20 years.

The interconnection/interdependence to the US markets from the rest of the world is so complex and so messed up that neither can make a move without effecting the other. You have a serious look at the world market indicators and individual market vehicles to see where their investments sit in our country and I can tell you that you will see this tip of the interconnection/interdependence to the US markets.

One thing that many miss and the conspiracy people don't want to know about is that we have exported our capitalism and this has come back to haunt us in many ways. Now we compete for Oil, for Gold, for metals and other things. You laughed at me about Africa, a place I have been to a bunch of times but in reality there is a concern with China's moves to secure mining operations and oil because of the weak dollar and the flourishing capitalistic point of view that the former repressive leaders are now having. We are shut out of Africa, not because of the AU but because of the UN and the slanted hate American rhetoric that they espouse.

In addition to this, our debt load which is fantastically out of tilt and is funded by China and Japan and other countries is a big problem for these countries. They can't sell the debt because of the dollar being so low and they can't call it in because of international treaties, hence they are stuck with the debt long term. In order for China to sell the debt, they have to convert it to another currency but China has made moves in the past decade to tie their economy to ours with exports and they are now seeing the problem where the ROI from their investments are too low and their return from their exports are shrinking which they are now having serious problems internally with trying to maintain their growth against inflation and could melt down if we slip into a depression here. Oh and let's not forget that even though China and the OPEC nations are making money, it is the value of the money that really matters, so a weak dollar discourages them to export to us.

By the way, the Euro - that savior currency of the world - is artificially propped up by the confederation of the EU which is not as stable as they appear to be. Italy is already talking about leaving the EU, they are being to controlled by the EU and quotas, effectively gutting the agriculture system of Italy, a system that dates back to Rome and was closest to a free market. There are other serious issues so I would expect the EU to either drastically change or end in the next 20 years.
 

ratwell71

Veteran Expediter
I am all for ending the Feds reign but it can't be done today. I think a better thing to do is to eliminate the income tax and replace it but....

The part that many don't get is that in order to change it we need to have something happen that forces us to actually replace or have a serious revaluation of the dollar which will put the rest of the world in a downward spiral into a real depression that may be longer than 20 years.

The interconnection/interdependence to the US markets from the rest of the world is so complex and so messed up that neither can make a move without effecting the other. You have a serious look at the world market indicators and individual market vehicles to see where their investments sit in our country and I can tell you that you will see this tip of the interconnection/interdependence to the US markets.

One thing that many miss and the conspiracy people don't want to know about is that we have exported our capitalism and this has come back to haunt us in many ways. Now we compete for Oil, for Gold, for metals and other things. You laughed at me about Africa, a place I have been to a bunch of times but in reality there is a concern with China's moves to secure mining operations and oil because of the weak dollar and the flourishing capitalistic point of view that the former repressive leaders are now having. We are shut out of Africa, not because of the AU but because of the UN and the slanted hate American rhetoric that they espouse.

In addition to this, our debt load which is fantastically out of tilt and is funded by China and Japan and other countries is a big problem for these countries. They can't sell the debt because of the dollar being so low and they can't call it in because of international treaties, hence they are stuck with the debt long term. In order for China to sell the debt, they have to convert it to another currency but China has made moves in the past decade to tie their economy to ours with exports and they are now seeing the problem where the ROI from their investments are too low and their return from their exports are shrinking which they are now having serious problems internally with trying to maintain their growth against inflation and could melt down if we slip into a depression here. Oh and let's not forget that even though China and the OPEC nations are making money, it is the value of the money that really matters, so a weak dollar discourages them to export to us.

By the way, the Euro - that savior currency of the world - is artificially propped up by the confederation of the EU which is not as stable as they appear to be. Italy is already talking about leaving the EU, they are being to controlled by the EU and quotas, effectively gutting the agriculture system of Italy, a system that dates back to Rome and was closest to a free market. There are other serious issues so I would expect the EU to either drastically change or end in the next 20 years.

Some very, very, good points. I did not laugh at you. It was the way it was written. I have never taken away from your good points. I have actually held some of your ideas in high respect. You know this because I have stated this in a number of my posts.

I actually read your post so that must mean something, right?

We all have something to contribute.
 

ratwell71

Veteran Expediter
"Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce."

James Garfield
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Some very, very, good points. I did not laugh at you. It was the way it was written. I have never taken away from your good points. I have actually held some of your ideas in high respect. You know this because I have stated this in a number of my posts.

I actually read your post so that must mean something, right?

We all have something to contribute.

Thanks - short version of the Oscar acceptance speech.

You know I sat with one of the people who has something to do with the CPI. It was really interesting to hear some solutions but the problem is that until we get a grip on our personal spending and our attitude, it will never change.

The other thing that we talked about was the farm bill and the real negative impact that will have on us in the near term.
 

ratwell71

Veteran Expediter
You know I sat with one of the people who has something to do with the CPI. It was really interesting to hear some solutions but the problem is that until we get a grip on our personal spending and our attitude, it will never change.

The other thing that we talked about was the farm bill and the real negative impact that will have on us in the near term.

I am so glad to hear that you are involved. You are absolutely right. Our spending helps feed the monster.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I am so glad to hear that you are involved. You are absolutely right. Our spending helps feed the monster.

Wonder how many drivers and O/O's are floating their fuel expenses on low interest credit cards?

Greg....Ranchers out here like the Farm Bill BUT not the pork add-ons.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
You Americans must be pretty disappointed and confused, besides angry that your government has degraded to this point?
The great American lifestyle has denigrated to this level. Capitol Hill is giving you lip service, you write your letters and phone your Reps and still nothing changes for the good.

I think your reluctant to follow your forefathers of outright civil disobedience because of your believe that the checks and balances will prevail, but congress has over the years watered down those same checks and balances to neutralize them in their favour.
So you wait and vote in a new president and cross your fingers that things will change?
Everybody owes somebody a favour...maybe it's time to wipe the slate clean? Alas but how? Oh yes, write a letter, call your rep, get involved the system will work. Is it? Will it? Are you a believer?
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
You Americans must be pretty disappointed and confused, besides angry that your government has degraded to this point?

What point, we are vocal – I think?

Confused, yes I agree but why? I think we have a very very poor education system in this country that there is absolutely no accountability in it. That was removed with the creation of the department of education and the lack of local control.

The great American lifestyle has denigrated to this level. Capitol Hill is giving you lip service, you write your letters and phone your Reps and still nothing changes for the good.

You want to know a little secret why I tell people to write, call and visit?

You see OVM that I want people to participate in the system, the hardest thing to do is getting them started in the participation. When they get to the point that they are writing about one subject and get ignored, then bring it to the next level and then the next, they get tired of the person they are writing to and vote for the other guy. The problem is we don’t have anything but a 3% participation rate at any given time and this has to be where it was in the 30’s, around 26%. Without participation, the system fails and when the system fails we are where we are today.

I think your reluctant to follow your forefathers of outright civil disobedience because of your believe that the checks and balances will prevail, but congress has over the years watered down those same checks and balances to neutralize them in their favour.

Civil disobedience was the end result of trying to participate within an existing system. England didn’t treat the colonies as citizens so after trying to work through the channels, they turned to the only means available. Just look at the Boston Massacre and the trial to see why Adams took the case and the ramifications. They gave us a really good system of government and it depends on the people being intelligent enough to participate in it, not have the dog and pony show every four years like it has been with primary elections to determine a candidate or the amount of money being spent on the election.

So you wait and vote in a new president and cross your fingers that things will change?
Everybody owes somebody a favour...maybe it's time to wipe the slate clean? Alas but how? Oh yes, write a letter, call your rep, get involved the system will work. Is it? Will it? Are you a believer?

Well first thing is this election is different because we as a country have tried hard to pull away from the race issue since 1965 but race has been the one thing consistent in the primaries and will be in the election. This being one thing that as a country we should have been way beyond and it only will make a more things worst – us against them.

Change only comes from changing the congress, not the president and the education system has created fallacies that never existed, like the president can make laws and just go to war (a discussion I had with my niece on the constitution and her showing me the text book she uses, there are outright lies in it). The problem is that we as a country need to look beyond the dog and pony show but can’t, it is American Idol happening with Obama, there is no change.

Favors? Well that’s politics, here or in Canada or in France or China – it don’t matter where, it’s politics. But I agree that it is time to wipe the slate clean, someone like Kennedy does the country no good, same with Levin but then again we have a representative who with his father has held the same seat for almost 75 years, John Dingell. He is a real problem and the people who consistently vote him into office don’t see the problem he has caused by holding that seat for a half of century. The solution is a term limit amendment in the constitution, like 3 terms for a rep (6 years) and a repeal of the 17th amendment (hint that this took states rights away to address federal issues and in turn taken our rights away).
 

ratwell71

Veteran Expediter
You Americans must be pretty disappointed and confused, besides angry that your government has degraded to this point?
The great American lifestyle has denigrated to this level. Capitol Hill is giving you lip service, you write your letters and phone your Reps and still nothing changes for the good.

I think your reluctant to follow your forefathers of outright civil disobedience because of your believe that the checks and balances will prevail, but congress has over the years watered down those same checks and balances to neutralize them in their favour.
So you wait and vote in a new president and cross your fingers that things will change?
Everybody owes somebody a favour...maybe it's time to wipe the slate clean? Alas but how? Oh yes, write a letter, call your rep, get involved the system will work. Is it? Will it? Are you a believer?

Amen.... You got it brother!!!! We pay them for lip service and the little sheep think that the system is going to correct itself.
 

ratwell71

Veteran Expediter
What point, we are vocal – I think?


((((You can only speak for yourself. Being vocal means more than debating on a forum.)))))


Confused, yes I agree but why? I think we have a very very poor education system in this country that there is absolutely no accountability in it. That was removed with the creation of the department of education and the lack of local control.


(((((I agree somewhat, however, ignorance is never an excuse for pure laziness.))))))



You want to know a little secret why I tell people to write, call and visit?


((((What's the little secret?))))))


You see OVM that I want people to participate in the system, the hardest thing to do is getting them started in the participation. When they get to the point that they are writing about one subject and get ignored, then bring it to the next level and then the next, they get tired of the person they are writing to and vote for the other guy. The problem is we don’t have anything but a 3% participation rate at any given time and this has to be where it was in the 30’s, around 26%. Without participation, the system fails and when the system fails we are where we are today.


(((You contradict yourself. I am very vocal and all I ever see you do on here is debate minuscule details. You know like RERUNS. I have given you the root to all of our problems in the USA and instead of allowing the truth reveal itself you blind yourself in heated debate about issues that are insignificant in regards to the root. )))))


Civil disobedience was the end result of trying to participate within an existing system. England didn’t treat the colonies as citizens so after trying to work through the channels, they turned to the only means available. Just look at the Boston Massacre and the trial to see why Adams took the case and the ramifications. They gave us a really good system of government and it depends on the people being intelligent enough to participate in it, not have the dog and pony show every four years like it has been with primary elections to determine a candidate or the amount of money being spent on the election.



((((Civil disobedience creates movements. To have a movement one must move, be active, and be a participant. Remember our forefathers "CIVIL DISOBEDIANCE" which led to our separation from ENGLAND. They did not want to continue to pay unfair taxes."Taxation without representation."))))))



Well first thing is this election is different because we as a country have tried hard to pull away from the race issue since 1965 but race has been the one thing consistent in the primaries and will be in the election. This being one thing that as a country we should have been way beyond and it only will make a more things worst – us against them.



((((IT is an unfair election when the media only covers a select few and excludes others. Information is key to an election. The media knows this. And who owns the media?))))))



Change only comes from changing the congress, not the president and the education system has created fallacies that never existed, like the president can make laws and just go to war (a discussion I had with my niece on the constitution and her showing me the text book she uses, there are outright lies in it). The problem is that we as a country need to look beyond the dog and pony show but can’t, it is American Idol happening with Obama, there is no change.


((((((Thanks for pointing out the obvious. Again ignorance is no excuse for pure laziness. You change Congress by being ACTIVE.))))))



Favors? Well that’s politics, here or in Canada or in France or China – it don’t matter where, it’s politics. But I agree that it is time to wipe the slate clean, someone like Kennedy does the country no good, same with Levin but then again we have a representative who with his father has held the same seat for almost 75 years, John Dingell. He is a real problem and the people who consistently vote him into office don’t see the problem he has caused by holding that seat for a half of century. The solution is a term limit amendment in the constitution, like 3 terms for a rep (6 years) and a repeal of the 17th amendment (hint that this took states rights away to address federal issues and in turn taken our rights away).


((((((How do we make amendments? """By being ACTIVE."""" Complacent people that complain are not being active they are being annoying. Someone that drives for miles to a rally or a demonstration is doing something. Someone that picks apart post in a forum complaining that noone is smart enough to translate the Bible, Constitution, etc. is just complaining. Nothing more. Again ignorance is not an excuse, it is a deadend.))))))

Read within.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
((((You can only speak for yourself. Being vocal means more than debating on a forum.)))))

Yes I know that, why even bother to bring it up?

(((((I agree somewhat, however, ignorance is never an excuse for pure laziness.))))))

The problem is what we are teaching the kids, and not allowing them to explore subjects – it is either what the teacher says it is or it is not right to explore it. This extends to the college campus where true freedom of speech is stifled by the masses who have specific agendas.

(((You contradict yourself. I am very vocal and all I ever see you do on here is debate minuscule details. You know like RERUNS. I have given you the root to all of our problems in the USA and instead of allowing the truth reveal itself you blind yourself in heated debate about issues that are insignificant in regards to the root. )))))

The purpose was to phrase it this way was to illustrate the reasoning behind my consistent words, as redundant as they may be. It is sometimes the details that matter, for that much many look at what they think is the larger picture and ignore the finer details of what’s, why’s and how’s. If this bores you, well move on.

You have given me a little but I took it upon myself to learn not from the journalist or self-appointed experts but the people who actually are involved with things. The articles only add to the knowledge of a subject albeit only marginally at times, not be its only source of information. I understand more than I need to and forgot a lot more than most will ever know but that does not mean I can’t tell people what I see is a problem. You see it as one thing, I see it as the fundamentals first.

((((Civil disobedience creates movements. To have a movement one must move, be active, and be a participant. Remember our forefathers "CIVIL DISOBEDIANCE" which led to our separation from ENGLAND. They did not want to continue to pay unfair taxes."Taxation without representation."))))))

Read the history of what went on, not a revised history by somebody sitting in an office at some university. The founding fathers tried to work within the existing system until they could not get any movement from the King, they did not want to become independent until there was no choice and what led up to that point was a series of events (like the Boston tea party and so on) that was done to show the crown that they needed to be taken seriously. FACT.

Do you know why we were being taxed or what that lack of representation meant? (You don’t have to answer that, just a rhetorical question.) I doubt it because it was not all about taxes but the equal rights of the colonist in regards to being a citizen of England. Read more history of England leading up to the formations of the colonies.

((((IT is an unfair election when the media only covers a select few and excludes others. Information is key to an election. The media knows this. And who owns the media?))))))

I can’t agree with you more on this issue. One problem with this is the idea that the media is sanctioned by the constitution to exist above the rights of the citizen and the end result is a closed society that we call the press. Examine the presses attitude and the history on how we ended up with the 1st amendment, oh and what a citizen journalist is. We live in a society today that is governed by the press, we allow things to happen like printing of secrets when we are at war but we as a people fail to care, yes that is laziness.

I think by eliminating the primaries, which allow the press to pick and choose what information they want to cover, is a good start. I also think this will stop the voter apathy that has been happening since the late 60’s.

But getting back to the laziness of the American citizen, which in fact has to do with the education system, we end up with what we have today, American Idol selecting the president.

((((((Thanks for pointing out the obvious. Again ignorance is no excuse for pure laziness. You change Congress by being ACTIVE.))))))

Yes it is the obvious but again how many don’t understand our form of government or wants to? It starts with education of the people to understand what they can do and how government is supposed to work, not just standing up and being a part of a demonstration for something that many don’t understand to begin with.

((((((How do we make amendments? """By being ACTIVE."""" Complacent people that complain are not being active they are being annoying. Someone that drives for miles to a rally or a demonstration is doing something. Someone that picks apart post in a forum complaining that noone is smart enough to translate the Bible, Constitution, etc. is just complaining. Nothing more. Again ignorance
is not an excuse, it is a deadend.))))))

I sort of agree with you, being active that is but we were not active with the 16th or 17th amendment, were we? We the people have not had a hand in any amendments since the 17th, because if we did the ERA would have been part of the constitution. Read and understand the 17th amendment. This is where our rights were abridged.

“Complacent people don’t make good activist” who said that? Well he is right but who said it? Demonstrations or rallies are only a small form that is needed, my theme here, if you didn’t get it is education of people to effect change. If the same effort was used to reach out to the ignorant masses, regardless what the leanings of the person is and show them how to change things, it is a far better use of resources than to scream about something that may not be heard across the country – make sense?
 

ratwell71

Veteran Expediter
Yes I know that, why even bother to bring it up?



((((Why bother with relevance?)))))



The problem is what we are teaching the kids, and not allowing them to explore subjects – it is either what the teacher says it is or it is not right to explore it. This extends to the college campus where true freedom of speech is stifled by the masses who have specific agendas.


((((This is not a school only problem. It starts in the home. Blaming is an "excuse" for ignorance. That is what we do here in this country. Well, Billy just went to jail last night for stabbing Peggy Sue. Oh yeah, why did he do that? Get where I am going with this. If a person chooses a crutch he will stagnate in his own ignorance. Back to the story of Billy, who cares WHY he did it? Understand that this country caters to this mentality. I don't care if Billy was starved for a week by his parents. The bottomline is that Billy WANTED to stab Peggy. Get me here. When asked "why" most will have an excuse instead of just SAYING I did it because I WANTED to. It is ownership of an error that allows for errors to be corrected. Errors will never correct themselves without someone taking ownership. That is an individual responsibility.)))))



The purpose was to phrase it this way was to illustrate the reasoning behind my consistent words, as redundant as they may be. It is sometimes the details that matter, for that much many look at what they think is the larger picture and ignore the finer details of what’s, why’s and how’s. If this bores you, well move on.


(((Trivial))))


You have given me a little but I took it upon myself to learn not from the journalist or self-appointed experts but the people who actually are involved with things. The articles only add to the knowledge of a subject albeit only marginally at times, not be its only source of information. I understand more than I need to and forgot a lot more than most will ever know but that does not mean I can’t tell people what I see is a problem. You see it as one thing, I see it as the fundamentals first.


((((There is a root to all problems. Get to the root, solve the problem. The other stuff is just to confuse the issue.))))))



Read the history of what went on, not a revised history by somebody sitting in an office at some university. The founding fathers tried to work within the existing system until they could not get any movement from the King, they did not want to become independent until there was no choice and what led up to that point was a series of events (like the Boston tea party and so on) that was done to show the crown that they needed to be taken seriously. FACT.

Do you know why we were being taxed or what that lack of representation meant? (You don’t have to answer that, just a rhetorical question.) I doubt it because it was not all about taxes but the equal rights of the colonist in regards to being a citizen of England. Read more history of England leading up to the formations of the colonies.


(((((I am not only educated but well read. Avid reader I am. You take my statements and add on to them. I am not writing a book here. I state the most obivious and move on.))))))



I can’t agree with you more on this issue. One problem with this is the idea that the media is sanctioned by the constitution to exist above the rights of the citizen and the end result is a closed society that we call the press. Examine the presses attitude and the history on how we ended up with the 1st amendment, oh and what a citizen journalist is. We live in a society today that is governed by the press, we allow things to happen like printing of secrets when we are at war but we as a people fail to care, yes that is laziness.

I think by eliminating the primaries, which allow the press to pick and choose what information they want to cover, is a good start. I also think this will stop the voter apathy that has been happening since the late 60’s.

But getting back to the laziness of the American citizen, which in fact has to do with the education system, we end up with what we have today, American Idol selecting the president.


((((Don't watch much television. School is not the root of the problem. It starts when people choose to have children.))))))


Yes it is the obvious but again how many don’t understand our form of government or wants to? It starts with education of the people to understand what they can do and how government is supposed to work, not just standing up and being a part of a demonstration for something that many don’t understand to begin with.


(((((We do live in a dumbing down of America era. ACTION is the only way to get a REACTION.)))))))))


I sort of agree with you, being active that is but we were not active with the 16th or 17th amendment, were we? We the people have not had a hand in any amendments since the 17th, because if we did the ERA would have been part of the constitution. Read and understand the 17th amendment. This is where our rights were abridged.

“Complacent people don’t make good activist” who said that? Well he is right but who said it? Demonstrations or rallies are only a small form that is needed, my theme here, if you didn’t get it is education of people to effect change. If the same effort was used to reach out to the ignorant masses, regardless what the leanings of the person is and show them how to change things, it is a far better use of resources than to scream about something that may not be heard across the country – make sense?

(((((Complacent people, what is the definition? They are satisfied so why would they take part in an action. They like the status quo. The Internet is a wonderful tool.))))))


Read from within.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Ratwell,
I give up.

you have apparently not been on a campus as someone who speaks against the status quo or taught in a school.

Education is the problem, education matters and the more educated a society is, the more forward thinking and the more prosperous it becomes.

The failure of people to understand that we indoctrinate people in schools at all levels, we stifle free thinking and in many cases force children to take one point of view while telling them it is wrong to think other than that point of view.

Case in point is global warming, the fact that many teachers take the position that this is only a man made effect of our life styles and the US is to blame for all of it. I didn't make this up by any means but have been told by both parents and teachers alike what is going on in class rooms. The ALGORE movie is mandated watching, it is discussed from the that position I just mentioned and there is no room for other opinions - period.

Extending this to the campus, you can see if you go against the masses on any subject, you are shut down. There is no debating, there is no interaction other than shutting down the people who have a differing opinion.
 
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