Texas court to rule on death penalty constitutionality

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
6 December 2010 Last updated at 22:35 ET Share this



A Texas judge is considering whether the death penalty is constitutional, in an unusual hearing ahead of a trial.

The defendant, John Edward Green Jr, is accused of fatally shooting a woman in her driveway in front of her children and could be sentenced to death.

Judge Kevin Fine consented to Mr Green's legal team's request to review the use of the death penalty.

But prosecutors said they would not participate and would "stand mute" during the legal proceedings.

Despite the prosecutors' decision, Judge Fine ordered the hearing to move forward, and Mr Green's lawyers began calling witnesses.

The judge's review of the use of the death penalty is being seen as atypical, as judges typically reject such routine requests by a defendant's legal team.

Experts in forensics, confessions and eyewitness identification will testify at the hearing, which could last up to two weeks.

The impact of a ruling that the death penalty is unconstitutional is not clear, but may be largely symbolic.

As a district court judge, Judge Fine does not have the power of higher court judges to require other judges to follow his ruling.

But the case will continue to be watched closely, particularly by courts in other states, including Illinois, where debates over the death penalty are raging.

The first witness called by Mr Green's lawyers was Richard Dieter, the executive director of the Death Penalty Information Center - a Washington DC-based nonprofit group.

Mr Dieter said the centre's review of exonerations of death row inmates had shown that past faulty eyewitness testimony, unreliable informant testimony and false confessions had contributed to the conviction of innocent people.

Throughout the hearing, Mr Green's legal team is expected to focus on the problem of wrongful convictions and recent exonerations of individuals who were sent to death row on the basis of faulty evidence.

Texas judges are elected, not appointed. Judge Fine is anomalous in heavily Republican Texas - he is a tattooed Democrat who has identified himself as a recovering alcoholic and a former cocaine user.

Prosecution lawyers have unsuccessfully attempted to remove Judge Fine from the case. They accused him of "antagonism against the death penalty" in court documents and expressed doubt over his impartiality.

They also argue that the death penalty is settled case law and does not need to be examined.

Since the resumption of the death penalty in Texas in 1992, Harris County, where Judge Fine serves, has sent more prisoners to death row than any other. Of the 286 death sentences in Harris County, 115 prisoners have been executed.
 

witness23

Veteran Expediter
Should be interesting to see how they rule on this, eh Turtle?

Just in case others decide to "pile on" for the sake of "piling on", I only included Turtle in my post because of our conversation a while back about the death penalty.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Good example of a question better suited for a PM, considering, you know, that I hadn't posted in this thread and have no comment, and our previous conversation was, you know, in a different thread. But to answer your question, yes, it should.
 

Brisco

Expert Expediter
Mind you, John Edward Green Jr is still considered "innocent" today because he has not been found guilty in a court of law yet.

Since his case has not been brought forth yet, the victim in this case has been shoved under the rug due to some elected Judges "personal beliefs" when it comes to the Death Penalty.

It took 20 minutes to find out who the victim was in this murder case. All the stories about this case cover John Edward Green JR and this activist Judge Fine. Nothing has been brought forth as to what happened the night a person was murdered and why Green is in court today over this. Understandable since this is still an open case.

12 pages down I finally learned who the true victim is:

Judge: Death Penalty Unconstitutional - Houston News Story - KPRC Houston

I say let's get Green convicted first to honor the wishes of the victims family, and to serve due justice. Then when he's sitting down there in Huntsville, let the political-activist-personal beliefs games begin.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
You gotta luv Texas. In addition to their proclivity for the death penalty, there's also this...

Judge: Why did you kill this man?

Defendant: He needed killin'

Judge: Case dismissed
 

witness23

Veteran Expediter
Good example of a question better suited for a PM, considering, you know, that I hadn't posted in this thread and have no comment, and our previous conversation was, you know, in a different thread. But to answer your question, yes, it should.

I'm not a big fan of the PM.

Asking if the outcome of this matter will be interesting and including you in that question is relevant. If it wasn't, you should have ignored my question and refrained from answering.
 
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LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
There is nothing at all fine about that judge and to think he is even allowed on the bench for night traffic court over parking violations is sickening much less that he's allowed to hear cases of such significance. It's up to the jury to decide on the penalty not some liberal drug addict.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I'm not a big fan of the PM.
Whether or not you're a fan of the PM is irrelevant to whether or not something is more appropriate for a PM.

Asking if the outcome of this matter will be interesting and including you in that question is relevant.
Only in your mind.

If it wasn't, you should have ignored my question and refrained from answering.
It became relevant when you mentioned me by name.
 

witness23

Veteran Expediter
Like I said Turtle, If you are not careful, others may think you have a man-crush or looking for a bromance with me.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Uhm, you're the one who brought me into this thread. That's practically the definition of a man-crush.

You are what you post. If you don't want to look like an idiot, don't post idiot.
 

witness23

Veteran Expediter
Uhm, you're the one who brought me into this thread. That's practically the definition of a man-crush.

You are what you post. If you don't want to look like an idiot, don't post idiot.

Again, you lower yourself to the level of name calling. Stay classy Turtle, stay classy.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
There is nothing at all fine about that judge and to think he is even allowed on the bench for night traffic court over parking violations is sickening much less that he's allowed to hear cases of such significance .....
Hmmmm ....

Judge: Why did you kill this man?

Defendant: He needed killin'

Judge: Case dismissed
Yup ..... I agree ....... :rolleyes:
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Again, you lower yourself to the level of name calling. Stay classy Turtle, stay classy.
You're awfully sensitive. I didn't call you anything. I merely handed out free advice. You can replace "idiot" with any descriptive adjective you like, and the advice still holds true.

None of that changes the fact that it was YOU who brought me into this thread. Trying to turn the whole man-crush thing around on me, when it was you who mentioned me by name and brought me into this thread, reeks of idiot. So, my advice to you is, since you are what you post, unless you want to be perceived as an idiot, don't post idiotic stuff.

I don't think you're an idiot, but I do wonder why you keep trying so, so hard to change my mind.
 

witness23

Veteran Expediter
You're awfully sensitive.

Not the least bit.

I didn't call you anything. I merely handed out free advice. You can replace "idiot" with any descriptive adjective you like

You should've taken your own advice and replaced "idiot" with another descriptive adjective before you hit the submit button.

None of that changes the fact that it was YOU who brought me into this thread.

Did you read the article? I mentioned you in my post because of our discussion in another thread. And when I read this from the article:

Mr Dieter said the centre's review of exonerations of death row inmates had shown that past faulty eyewitness testimony, unreliable informant testimony and false confessions had contributed to the conviction of innocent people.

Throughout the hearing, Mr Green's legal team is expected to focus on the problem of wrongful convictions and recent exonerations of individuals who were sent to death row on the basis of faulty evidence.

Sound familiar? Those were some of the examples I was talking about why I oppose the death penalty, among other reasons. Since the arguments are being brought up in court, arguing the constitutionality of death penalty I thought it would be interesting to see what the outcome will be. I thought maybe, just maybe it would be of interest to you.

Talk about being sensitive!

Trying to turn the whole man-crush thing around on me, when it was you who mentioned me by name and brought me into this thread, reeks of idiot.

Is this what it is about? Are you kidding me? I brought you into the thread because it was an interesting article and it had made points about the death penalty that I had discussed in the other thread. Wow!

So, my advice to you is, since you are what you post, unless you want to be perceived as an idiot, don't post idiotic stuff.

I am disapointed in you Turtle, I thought you were much better than that and more sophisticated.

I also find it somewhat disturbing that a Moderator like yourself would conduct themselves such as you have.

I don't think you're an idiot, but I do wonder why you keep trying so, so hard to change my mind.

You don't think I'm an idiot, phewww....for a minute I thought you did(sarcasm) Oh wait, you said "but". You're a nice guy "but"..... I really like you "but"...... You're not an idiot, "but".

Let me ask you this. Why do you think I mentioned your name in my post?
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Again, why do you think I mentioned you in my post?
Uhm, well, I'm gonna go with, "because of our conversation a while back about the death penalty."

So you've circled back to your original post in the thread.

You brought me into this thread because of the discussion we had in a different thread, and you wanted to bring that discussion into the current thread, to connect them somehow, even though the other thread was about the death penalty in general, and this thread subject is about a wacko judge who can't separate his personal feelings from the rule of law.

Bringing me into a thread discussion that I wasn't even a part of in order to get my opinion as to how this thread relates to the previous thread is a personal communication best left to Private Messages.

But now we're circling again, 'cause I already said that, too.


What's that they say about doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result? I'm done circling, dood.
 

witness23

Veteran Expediter
Uhm, well, I'm gonna go with, "because of our conversation a while back about the death penalty."


Yep, you got it, that's all it was. Two simple words, "eh Turtle". Are you paranoid or something? If you think I wanted to bring you in to have a dialogue about the death penalty in this thread, you are sorely mistaken. Instead, what we got was you whinning about me mentioning your name(heaven forbid), you being worried about a man-crush and a thinly veiled insult thrown by you.

Seriously, there was no malicious intent or ulterier motive when I wrote that post.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Instead, what we got was you whinning about me mentioning your name(heaven forbid), you being worried about a man-crush and a thinly veiled insult thrown by you.
No, we didn't get that. Are you that dense? What we got was, a good example of a question better suited for a PM, considering, you know, that I hadn't posted in this thread and have no comment, and our previous conversation was, you know, in a different thread. We didn't get any of the other stuff until after you expounded with other comments.

Seriously, there was no malicious intent or ulterier motive when I wrote that post.
I never said there was.
 
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