Sprinter Used Oil Analysis

[RLENT]

This was the original UOA I did on our Sprinter when I was considering adding a bypass filter and doing extended oil change intervals. It was done prior to adding the bypass filter.

Up to this point, I had always pretty followed the ASSYST maintenance computer's oil quality sensor and had changed out at the recommended interval (generally every 12K to 14K.)

I did change out just the stock full-flow filter fairly often however (early - anywhere from every 5K to 8K miles) since it was cheap ($7), so easy to do, and because virtually no oil was lost.

And because the Turtle said I should (it was good advice - thanks Ken !!)

 

[RLENT]

This next UOA was done with almost 2K more miles on the next OC - but at around 14K into the OC (IIRC) I added the bypass filter - it is a Motor Guard filter, that uses a single roll of toilet paper as the filtration media. It was modified by Ralph P Wood, out of Sanger, TX to be used with hot lube oil.

Roughly 10% of the engine's oil flow is constantly feed thru this filter while it is running.

The Motor Guard will filter particles down to level of 1/10 of a micron (the diameter of a human hair is about 70 microns, some bacteria can be as small as 1/2 micron)

 

[RLENT]

This is the most recent UOA. It is a similar amount of miles into the OC as my last analysis - but the difference is that this OC was run on the bypass filter the entire time the oil has been in the vehicle.

The person that did the commentary on the report missed one item: I didn't change out the oil when the sample was taken ("Try 17,000 miles next time") and the comment about not thinking the oil was too dark was in reference to a comment that I made when I sent in the sample.

The oil currently has about 19K miles on it, and I'll be pulling another sample for analysis at 25K miles in, to see what it looks like then. I'm hoping to go least 30K miles per oil change .... which would cut the number of OC's I have to do in half. It's possible I may be able to go even longer than 30K between oil changes.

 

[moose]

Thanks for posting.
very interesting.

33,411 Mil , in just about 5 months.
how many of those Mil. are loaded ?
how many days off ?

what do you think will be the item that will make you do a full oil change ?
how often do you change the element ? (or did i mist something ?)
will you recommend this by pass to other sprinters owners ?




Moose.

 

[Turtle]

"It's possible I may be able to go even longer than 30K between oil changes."

I would think so. Depends on how much new oil it takes to top if off after a TP change, as that alone will extend it a little. Between the OEM and bypass filter changes at regular intervals, and topping it off as needed, it might be an astonishing number.

 

[moose]

and that's , in a nut shell ,
why some(GC...) by pass users can go 300K without an oil change ...




Moose.

 

[RLENT]

Thanks for posting. very interesting.

You're quite welcome, of course.

33,411 Mil , in just about 5 months.
how many of those Mil. are loaded ?

22,428 loaded, plus a dispatched deadhead of 4,882 miles - which (obviously) doesn't include any undispatched deadhead (relocate to a better freight area) or personal miles (I usually drive the Sprinter when I'm OOS - because it gets about 6 to 8 better mpg than my other vehicle - a RAM 3500 with a Cummins)

how many days off ?

Dunno ..... I'd have to look and count it up .... I did take over two months off over a period roughly from late June to late September ... and a few days .... or a week .... here and there, after that .....

what do you think will be the item that will make you do a full oil change ?

Well ..... good question - could be any one of several things - or maybe a combination of many:

1. TBN goes out the bottom (2 or lower), meaning the add package is about gone and nothing is left to counteract contaminants.

2. Viscosity goes out of range, due to shearing.

3. Flashpoint goes out the bottom and/or fuel % number goes out of range, indicating fuel dilution.

how often do you change the element ? (or did i mist something ?)

I actually haven't been perfectly consistent with the changing the filter element ...... the interval has ranged from around 1,400 miles (1x) to around 4,500 miles (1x) - mostly around 3K miles though.

At the time I took the last oil sample I had changed it 6 times over about 15K or 16K miles. I'm guessing that the ideal change interval might be somewhere between 3K and 5K miles.

I really need to do detailed some observations regarding the point at which the bypass filter becomes loaded to the point of restricting the flow. When the filter element is new, it is nearly transparent to the flow of oil - despite the fact that it is a depth filter (unlike most full-flow filters, which are surface filters), where the oil has to flow from one end of the toilet paper roll to the other.

The element is easy to change with little to no mess, is low cost ($1 or less), and it doesn't take much time (5 minutes or less) The amount of make up oil required is about 1/2 to 5/8 of a quart per element change - this would probably be even better if I had found a way to mount the housing totally vertical (instead of at an angle of less than 45 degrees), which would allow almost all of the oil in the element to drain out over night.

will you recommend this by pass to other sprinters owners ?

Yes, I would recommend it to other Sprinter owners as well. In fact, I would recommend a bypass filter and extended drain intervals to anyone running expedite - since they run mostly highway miles, they stand to greatly benefit from it (reduced maintenance costs, a cleaner engine which should mean prolonged engine life, better for the environment, etc.)

Anyone running a gas engine might even stand to benefit more than I am, since diesels are pretty dirty (all that soot)

The difficulty with using it (or any other bypass filter for that matter) on earlier Sprinters (the T1N's) is that there is almost no space inside the engine compartment to mount it. I fabbed and welded up a bracket to mount it to. The newer '07's and later (NCV3's) have plenty of space under the hood for mounting, however.

 

[RLENT]

and that's, in a nut shell, why some (GC...) bypass users can go 300K without an oil change ...

I assume that you are referring to a Gulfcoast Filter's bypass unit when you say GC above ?

Are you running one ? If so, how do you like it ?

I'd guess that anyone that is able to go that long (300K) probably has a huge oil sump on the engine - and are adding significantly more "make up" oil than I am .... my sump is pretty small - only 9.5 quarts stock, 10.5 with the addition of the bypass

Of course, if you change the filter often enough .... and keep the oil from ever getting dirty ..... the sky may well be the limit

 

[RLENT]

Attached is an image taken when I was changing the bypass filter for the 1st time after I had done a complete oil change:

 

[moose]

I assume that you are referring to a Gulfcoast Filter's bypass unit when you say GC above ?

Are you running one ? If so, how do you like it ?

no i Dont ,
some 8,000 Mil. ago , i have installed the FS2500,
not enough for any update ... yet.

i have moved that unit from my F350 SD . it was there for some 40K ,and did a good job.



Moose.

 

[RLENT]

And this is what the oil looked like ...... keep in mind - it is an EGR diesel ..... the oil is usually completely black after an oil change within 1000 miles (or maybe much less) This oil has 3K miles on it

 

[RLENT]

no i Dont. Some 8,000 Mil. ago, i have installed the FS2500, not enough for any update ... yet.

Cool ...... yeah, that's a very nice filter setup. In fact, I was just watching their filtration demo video last night .... pretty neat to view. They are smart to do something like that (produce a video) - seeing really is believing.

i have moved that unit from my F350 SD . it was there for some 40K ,and did a good job.

Power Stroke Diesel ?

What are you running it on now ?

When do ya figure you'll pull the first sample for analysis ?

 

[danthewolf00]

RLENT you got a link to the companey that makes the by-pass?

 

[moose]

RLENT you got a link to the companey that makes the by-pass?

Here ya go :

http://filtrationsolutionsww.com/



Moose.

 

[moose]

Cool ...... yeah, that's a very nice filter setup. In fact, I was just watching their filtration demo video last night .... pretty neat to view. They are smart to do something like that (produce a video) - seeing really is believing.

Yes ,from all the by-pass out there ,the FS2500 are the best choice for my truck.

Power Stroke Diesel ?
yes.

What are you running it on now ?
what is it that you are asking ?

When do ya figure you'll pull the first sample for analysis ?

in about 12K from now.


& how the heck do you do them multi Quote...
Moose.

 

[RLENT]

RLENT you got a link to the companey that makes the by-pass?

Dan,

The company that makes the Motor Guard filter housing is here:

Motor Guard: Air Management

The unit that I am using is an M-30 - which is ideal because the inlet and outlet are plumbed thru the bottom (which makes it self-draining and very clean when you go to change the element)

When Motor Guard developed them originally, back in the '50's I think, they were designed to filter lube oil (hence the name - Motor Guard), possibly air as well.

Later on, after the founders retired, the new guys that took over running the company didn't want anything to do with lube oil filtration and marketed them strictly for air filtration.

They are currently marketed by Motor Guard for air filtration only - auto-body (paint spray-guns), industrial (plasma cutters), and medical. Basically anywhere really clean air is needed - but they will filter liquids just as well.

The current air filtration units, have some parts (plastic) inside them, as well as an epoxy coating, that makes them unsuitable for use in hot lube oil without modification.

The guy I bought mine from has been a dealer for Motor Guard for a long time. He buys the current model from Motor Guard and replaces the plastic internals with metal components, and removes the epoxy coating. His name is Ralph P Wood, and he's being doing bypass filtration since the '60's. Really nice old guy - and does it pretty much because he believes in the idea ..... certainly not for the money (he's probably lucky, if at the end of the year, he hasn't lost money)

Ralph doesn't currently have a website (it used to be www.bypassfilter.com and you can look at it thru the Way Back Machine - waybackmachine.com)

The corporate dikwads at Motor Guard didn't like him using their name on his website and had their attorney send him a letter, telling him (an old man in '70's, suffering from cancer at the time I believe) to take down the website ... jerks ....

Anyways, you can reach Ralph @ 940-458-4536. That's his home phone (in Sanger, TX) - so be mindful of when you call. Jerene, his wife, will probably answer and she'll have to go round up Ralph from wherever he's tinkering at the moment.

There is another company - Frantz Filters Manufactured by We Filter It! Inc - Oil, Diesel and Gas Filters - that makes a somewhat similar filter (in that it uses a single roll of TP as the filtration medium) - nothing wrong with it as far as I know .... it uses a steel can and I believe an aluminum base.

The Motor Guard is an all aluminum, cast housing. From what I can see, I think the Motor Guard is probably less messy to change (as in none) And anyways, Ralph likes them better.

Either unit will cost you around $150 or so.

These two companies aren't the only games in town as far as bypass filtration goes - there are plenty of others. They are two that offer a filter which uses a common, readily-available item, that is cheap as the filtration medium - rather than proprietary filter elements that are expensive.

Anyone that wants a real education on bypass filtration (and all matters oil) might want to go over to the BITOG site (Bob Is The Oil Guy) and spend some time reading the Bypass Filtration Board in the Forum.

 

[RLENT]

in about 12K from now.

Yeah ... it oughta be ready by then to get a good idea of what's going on ......

& how the heck do you do them multi Quote...

Read this and see if it helps:

http://www.expeditersonline.com/for...o-i-separate-quotes-responses.html#post275897

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Well Randall...

and Turtle...Ken....a name I can relate to....


After all these tech posts and threads....I am just an old dinosaur...I am soooo far behind technically...guess I am old school after all...

BUT I'll let you use me as the bad comparison as to when someone runs their Sprinter "As Is"

 

[RLENT]

After all these tech posts and threads....I am just an old dinosaur...I am soooo far behind technically...guess I am old school after all...

Well, Mr A. ....... it's never too late for a change .... if you feel so inclined ..... I didn't know nothing about bypass filtration really, until maybe 12 months ago ..... when I started reading up on it (the real beauty of the internet and places like EO and BITOG, is that they allow you to easily take advantage of others' accumulated knowledge ...... their hard won lessons ....)

I had heard of TP filters a long time ago .... probably over 30 years ago .... but the only thing I heard was some (ignorant) guys I used to work with (who probably should have known a little better, and been a little more open to "new" ideas), talking about them in a pretty negative manner ....

Some poor soul had come into the auto parts store where we all worked and had attempted to enlighten these guys 'bout how he was using a common item - TP - to keep his oil extremely clean. From these guys reaction (the ones I worked with) you woulda thought that the guy with the TP filter had told them that he had been declared certifiable last week .... and had just escaped from the local nut bin earlier in the day.

I didn't get to witness all of it (was waiting on a customer), but these guys had plenty to say after the customer left the store. I look back on it now with a degree of amusement.

Some folks have funny ideas about this (TP filtration) - apparently really hits up against some preconceived notions they have about what toilet paper can be used for. Some folks can't seem to get past that long enough to ask themselves "What are filters made out of ?"

I've even read some on here (old threads) from someone I would have thought would have known better ... or been a little more open. He hasn't been around much lately ... so I'll avoid mentioning his name ... since he probably isn't around to defend his rather ignorant and ill-informed comments (some of what he said was just utterly wrong - and, of course, nothing to back them up)

From purely an economic perspective, alot of folks who end up putting a bypass filter on their vehicles are just wasting their money (read about it on BITOG) - because they don't put but maybe 12K to 24K miles per year on their vehicles ..... and they are not extending their oil change intervals ..... and are still changing their oil every 3K miles ..... and running synthetic. But that's fine, whatever floats ones boat.

People that frequent the boards here can take advantage of bypass filtration though - they are prime candidates for it. Just simply from the type of driving that we do, and the amount of miles we drive per year.

BUT I'll let you use me as the bad comparison as to when someone runs their Sprinter "As Is"

Heheheh ..... bad comparison ..... ? ...... I don't think so ....

You've managed to roll up .... what ? ..... over 350K miles on that puppy ? With no real problems to speak of ? ..... you'll never hear me talking that down ....

Still, there are Sprinter folks who have had problems .... in some cases big problems ..... so it isn't like the things are totally bulletproof.

But you must being doing something right ..... either that, or you just have the magic touch ...... mebbe a combo of both

Me ? I'm shootin' for 1M miles .....

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Thanks....I'll just keep plodding along doing what works for me at the moment and we'll see who can achieve the million mark...and compare notes....could be interesting?