Re: Facebook against Troops Group..

[OntarioVanMan]

Oh Joe....rant on....

we were saying Facebook won't remove it because they prolly not interested But some have said it could be a constitutional issue....

They start an anti-troop group
Someone starts a pro troop group...

 

[layoutshooter]

Who said that I wanted to rant? LOL! Not I, said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw!!

In reality all I was going to say it that few people today know why the Freedom of Speech was put into the Bill of Rights and what it was trying to provide for the People. It was not intended to allow anyone to just say anything at anytime that they want. It has just been taken as that over the years.

Also, as with every other freedom, no one has the "right" to just say as they please. Every freedom comes with an equal and binding responsibility. The often used example is shouting "fire" in a movie theater when there is not fire. People today tend not to take the responsibilities as seriously as they exercise their rights.

Hows that? Not ranting at all!! Bet it ain't what you expected either, eh?

 

[OntarioVanMan]

It is along the line of what I was expecting...You've said that before...tis a good response..

as I said in these times of high unemployment that is expected for at least all year and into the next..the draft would serve well right now....give these critics a job, teach them a trade and just maybe some first hand insight into just what is expected from a soldier...and get them off the street and being bored...

 

[layoutshooter]

It is my personal belief that everyone should do two years of some sort of public service right out of high school. Not all could or should serve in the military. I also believe that it would most likely take an amendment to the Constitution to allow for that.

Those who did not serve in the military would still have to wear some sort of uniform, have a "basic training" of sorts and have to follow a chain of command that had a rank system. Pay grades would be similar although the military should be paid higher since they are putting their live on the line and the others would not be for the most part. Those who risk more should be better compensated. That is how life is.

The non-military group could not work in any law enforcement roles either. They would not be armed either. They would be in a service role only. Similar to the old CCC programs.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Pilgrim said:

I appreciate the principles of free speech, but I think this constitutional right is meant to apply to the public arena. A good example is our own EO website - there are things that aren't allowed to be posted here, and for good reason. This forum is open to the public, with some limitations in order to guarantee proper decorum and good taste.

In fact, the same applies to Facebook according to Section 3 of their
Statement of Rights and Responsibilities:
Item 6; You will not bully, intimidate or harass any user.
Item 7; You will not post material that is hateful, threatening, pornographic...

Assuming that even one active member of the military is a member of Facebook, then the above rules should apply to these "F**k the Troops" groups.

A modest proposal: suppose I or some other daring soul decides to start an offensive group on Facebook like "F**k The Gays"? How long do you think this would last? I'll bet the rights of free speech would quickly collide with an appropriate enforcement of their terms, with no petition having to be organized.

My main point is that free speech applies if these groups of anti-military peaceniks want to stand on a street corner with sandwich signs or posters denegrating our troops, and yell anti-war chants from the late 1960s. My secondary point is that there appears to be a double standard in play at Facebook, where they selectively enforce their rules.

It seems to work that way...

 

[aristotle]

The best way to deal with stupid people is to ignore them. It robs them of the attention they so desperately want. I have a difficult time understanding a hate-group whose sole purpose is to direct hate toward our military. These imbeciles do not realize the United States would not continue to exist without a strong military. Our rights and freedoms, including free speech, have been bought and paid for with the blood of America's fighting men and women.

If these peaceniks want to leave, I will sponsor one with an airline ticket to the country of their choice... on condition they renounce their US citizenship and promise never to return.

 

[layoutshooter]

"If these peaceniks want to leave, I will sponsor one with an airline ticket to the country of their choice... on condition they renounce their US citizenship and promise never to return."


Send them to Iran, China, North Korea or Russia and let them start their protest stuff. If they were able to live through it and they made it back home then they might have a little bit of gratitude for those who allow them to have all these wonderful rights, our troops. Freedom has never been free. It has in the past and will for a long time to come cost blood and lives to insure it.

The peaceniks, naysayers, hand wringers have only those who have stood between them and those who do not believe in freedom, both now and in that past, THE TROOPS.

God Bless 'Em All!!!

 

[arkjarhead]

I wasn't trying to get anything started but this isn't a Freedom of Speech thing. The 1st Amendment says CONGRESS will not pass any law suppressing your freedom of speech. It doesn't say anything about a private company/group.

What about a company that asks employees not to disclose certain things about the business? I'm sure someone working (insert carriers name here) wouldn't want an employee coming on the internet posting about how the company hauls freight for x company for y amount per mile. If the employee did and the carrier punishes that employee no one would have a problem with that employee losing their job because of lost revenue.

Guess what. Our enemy has more intelligence than you think. He gets on the internet and watchs the news from the US via satielite. When they see all this kind F the Troops stuff going on over here it just emboldens them to attack and take people's life.

What gets me is people wouldn't talking about freedom of speech if someone might loose money, but when it's a Solider's life it's ok. Give the punk their rights when you must not understand the amendment.

 

[cheri1122]

Who said that I wanted to rant? LOL! Not I, said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw!!


In reality all I was going to say it that few people today know why the Freedom of Speech was put into the Bill of Rights and what it was trying to provide for the People.
That comment is arrant and arrogant nonsense. Few people may know that it was a capital offense to criticize the 'government' [the monarchy] in England, but most folks know the intent was to permit criticism of the government, I believe.
It was not intended to allow anyone to just say anything at anytime that they want. It has just been taken as that over the years.
Only by those with an IQ of room temperature.
Also, as with every other freedom, no one has the "right" to just say as they please. Every freedom comes with an equal and binding responsibility. The often used example is shouting "fire" in a movie theater when there is not fire. People today tend not to take the responsibilities as seriously as they exercise their rights.
Some people do. And some people tend to make broad [and unsupportable] statements of opinion, as if they are accepted facts - but they are not.
Hows that? Not ranting at all!! Bet it ain't what you expected either, eh?

It is just exactly what I expected, at least.

 

[cheri1122]

That I agree with Ark's view is why I added my name to the petition to remove the offensive group: not because I believe Facebook will do so [they may or may not], but to add my voice to those who strongly disagree.

 

[layoutshooter]

"That comment is arrant and arrogant nonsense. Few people may know that it was a capital offense to criticize the 'government' [the monarchy] in England, but most folks know the intent was to permit criticism of the government, I believe."

I don't believe that it is arrogant nonsense at all. I hear people say all the time that they can say this or that because they have "freedom of speech"

I see the courts giving "strippers" the "right" to strip under "freedom of speech. (not that I have any problems with strippers doing their thing, it is just not speech or protected)

You are mostly right, it was to protect political speech, which includes, but is not limited to, criticism of the government.

So many think, (I am not saying that you are included) that cussing in public is protected or foul lyrics, like kill the cops or "..... the ...itch" is protected under "freedom of speech" as political speech. That is not either. At least in my opinion.

Darn, I can't seem to get this bold off, it is not intended. Guess it is because I cut and paste your stuff.

Civics or government classes don't seem to be as much as a priority today as they once were. So many think that we have a democracy in the U.S., which it is not. So many think, (at least I have heard it on the streets) that the President passes bills and is in charge of the Country, which no president is under the Constitution.

There are "welfare rights" groups, people actually think that they are "entitled" to the wages that other people earn. That is not in any part of the Constitution that I have ever read.

One last point to keep in mind, for the most part, those troops give up their freedom of speech. As do most Federal and State employees. Military personel cannot actively campain for a candidate. I was not able too when I worked for the DOD. That is considered a conflict of interest, I agree that it is.

I don't know why you feel that everything I say is arrogant, maybe you have a problem with those who stand up for things that you might not agree with. I don't see anything in that first post that would set you off. I was speaking in general and reflecting on my personal observations. You are more than welcome to disagree if you so chose, just remember those who secure that "right" for you.

Our troops.

Without them you and I would not have any of these wonderful rights that we enjoy. They are very much in danger from many enemies today. Thank God that there are still so many fine young men and women willing to give there all so we can rant and rave in here.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

A trip into lala land..

I am for disbanding any and all military in every country....that would save even more lives....and we'd be more productive...

 

[layoutshooter]

LALA land is right, OVM, what woke you up? LOL!

Disband the military, that is too funny!! We already have over 10% unemployment.

Why not disband the government, talk about a real waste of money!!

 

[OntarioVanMan]

It was a nightmare...*LOL*

No Military abroad..
Elected representives..term limits..put it on the ballot and let the people make the decision....take the choice away from the politicians...

No Lobby groups/No special interest groups allowed to give money OR gifts to elected officials...
Campaign spending limits set by referendum..the voters

 

[aristotle]

A trip into lala land..

I am for disbanding any and all military in every country....that would save even more lives....and we'd be more productive...

Disband the military of every nation? We can revert to tribalism with all its concomitant slaughter. OVM, you would be praying for a professional army to protect your family, community and way of life. A quick review of tribal relations between the Hutu and Tutsi or the ethnic violence in Darfur gives insight to life without a professional military under civilian control.

We Americans will never live in fear of a land invasion by any army, or paramilitary, or militia group or marauders in general. Terrorists might pull a sneak attack like Sept 11th, but a full-out invasion is an impossibility. Without our military there would be no peace. And no peace of mind.

 

[layoutshooter]

"Nightmare"? Sounds more like a "substance induced" dream!!!

LOL!!!! At least if you are going to "dream goofy" you do it all the way!!!

I tink it is time for me to get a few "Z's" myself my friend. Have a good evening.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Goodnight Joe...

I just watched the Bourne Ultimatum again...got me all wound about about spies!! *LOL*

 

[Ragman]

Disband the military of every nation? We can revert to tribalism with all its concomitant slaughter. OVM, you would be praying for a professional army to protect your family, community and way of life. A quick review of tribal relations between the Hutu and Tutsi or the ethnic violence in Darfur gives insight to life without a professional military under civilian control.

We Americans will never live in fear of a land invasion by any army, or paramilitary, or militia group or marauders in general. Terrorists might pull a sneak attack like Sept 11th, but a full-out invasion is an impossibility. Without our military there would be no peace. And no peace of mind.

could not have said it better!

 

[Pilgrim]

"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not"
- Thomas Jefferson

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Disband the military of every nation? We can revert to tribalism with all its concomitant slaughter. OVM, you would be praying for a professional army to protect your family, community and way of life. A quick review of tribal relations between the Hutu and Tutsi or the ethnic violence in Darfur gives insight to life without a professional military under civilian control.

We Americans will never live in fear of a land invasion by any army, or paramilitary, or militia group or marauders in general. Terrorists might pull a sneak attack like Sept 11th, but a full-out invasion is an impossibility. Without our military there would be no peace. And no peace of mind.

Umm I said and you seemed to acknowledge..I said EVERY country...that means NO Navy, No Air Force...so wheres this invasion force coming from? swimming?
And I did not say no national force. Just in case a few did make the swim...