pay rate ALL Miles

[busop1]

This thread is directed to all D unit operators with all companies but perhaps more specific to those with experience with FDCC - feel free to respond but please stay on topic. All input is appreciated!!

I researched alot before putting a truck on with FDCC couple weeks ago. I have dealt with couple smaller carriers several years ago just recently bought another truck to get back out. My research led me to conclusion I could make more on ALL miles total with FDCC - truck is D unit single axle no lift gate dry box only currently solo driver - wife will join me in about 8-9 months. I also found others who had done extensive research and came to same conclusion. Of course much info came straight from carriers and much came from these forums and other owner ops.

Using today's fuel surcharges (included in my numbers) I believed my all miles (all miles meaning all empty miles included in numbers) total averages could be approximately as follows:

FDCC $1.50 mile (this is not white glove - it's surface expedite only % pay)
Panther $1.40 mile (solo driver w/ hazmat flat rate pay)
All other carriers $1.30 - $1.35 mile flat rate pay

Numbers are averages for all miles accruing on odometer while truck is in service divided into total revenue paid to truck including fuel surcharges during same time.

Landstar would probably be in same pay rates as FDCC based on research but wife and I don't have current enough driving exp for them plus i prefer logging on qualcomm not sure that they use qualcomm. Again my numbers are averages for ALL MILES - i only keep saying that so we all can talk numbers that are comparing apples to apples.

Since being on with FDCC about 12 days - yes I know this is very small sample - here are some numbers: 6 loads 1941 total miles = average ALL miles $1.42 which is OK.

I don't mind sitting. My truck is paid for and house and cars are paid for. I don't need miles for the sake of miles - that's why I keep talking an ALL Miles average pay. I don't believe expedite freight is suppose to be cheap freight. If they want cheap send it LTL.

My aggravation perhaps lies more with the 'FDCC system'. I have had 30 load offers sent to me of which my acceptance rate is only 20%. Why so low you wonder - because the loads offered have been this:

1 load offered @ $1.51 all miles (accepted)
1 load offered @ $1.35 all miles (accepted)
2 loads offered @ $1.20 all miles (accepted 1 heading to home)
5 loads offered @ $1.00 - $1.15 all miles (negotiated 2 up in pay and accepted)
21 loads offered @ $0.80 - $0.99 all miles (negotiated 1 up in pay and accepted)

FDCC own 2011 numbers say solo's made $1.49 all miles and teams $1.50 all miles adjusting to today's current fuel surcharge rates for apples to apples comparison.

Those with knowledge of FDCC - is my acceptance rate going to be frowned heavily upon?? or cost me load opps??

I am always very polite with dispatch and customers even when they can be clueless and/or aggravating at times lol. But again I'm not in this business to run cheap freight. I know my numbers are currently:

Fuel costs $0.45 per mile
truck maintenance $0.15 per mile
insurance/qualcomm/acc insurance so on $0.15 per mile

Thats total operating costs of $0.75 per mile. Now I did perty ok goode n skool - but who in their right minds are going to run expedited freight for $0.80 - $1.00 mile including fuel??

And still be able to feed themselves/family and put roof over their heads and make truck payments...

Apparently someone is. Why else would it be offered at such ridiculous low rates??

Remember my stuff is paid for - but this ole boy ain't runnin his truck for them rates. What gives?? Why are people doing this?? Can they not operate a calculator?? And if not should they be operating a truck?? What also about the truck owners out their with drivers in their trucks why are they allowing this to continue?? Can they not do the math either??

I also don't buy the argument that you should take cheap run to relocate. Why?? So more less than dollar a mile expedited freight can be expected by customers and offered by carriers??

Am I missing something here?? Are my numbers wrong?? Are my expectations unrealistic??

Feedback desired...Thanks and be safe.

 

[xiggi]

One paragraph caught my eye. I never assume the rate offered to a truck has any connection to what the customer pays if the truck is on mileage pay. Especially when companies pay all miles they are not taking money out of company profits to pay those empty miles.

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[busop1]

One paragraph caught my eye. I never assume the rate offered to a truck has any connection to what the customer pays if the truck is on mileage pay. Especially when companies pay all miles they are not taking money out of company profits to pay those empty miles.

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xiggi - can you elaborate on this for me not sure I am following?? thanks

 

[xiggi]

Loads even inside one company can be filtered through different divisions with each taking a cut. The fed for example has many it can be booked by division a resold to b and then offered to a driver only after two divisions have taken a slice. There could even be more than two divisions taken a slice before the driver sees it.

The same happens when a load is a customer of say panther they place it on a load board and jobs expedite wins the bid. The customer might have paid two bucks. Jobs bid a buck and the driver gets 8O.

Some proof of what the driver gets compared to customer rate is evident un the fact you can negotiate rates.

On the empty miles pay that comes off a percentage of all loads and some fuel surcharge not being passed to the truck imho.

I have seen many times where even though it might be say a fed load it gets sold to another company and that companies driver is paid more than a fed driver would have been. Fed us just used as an example.

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[busop1]

Loads even inside one company can be filtered through different divisions with each taking a cut. The fed for example has many it can be booked by division a resold to b and then offered to a driver only after two divisions have taken a slice. There could even be more than two divisions taken a slice before the driver sees it.

The same happens when a load is a customer of say panther they place it on a load board and jobs expedite wins the bid. The customer might have paid two bucks. Jobs bid a buck and the driver gets 8O.

Some proof of what the driver gets compared to customer rate is evident un the fact you can negotiate rates.

On the empty miles pay that comes off a percentage of all loads and some fuel surcharge not being passed to the truck imho.

I have seen many times where even though it might be say a fed load it gets sold to another company and that companies driver is paid more than a fed driver would have been. Fed us just used as an example.

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That makes sense. But I think this is just expanded details. I still see a huge problem in those that bid or accept runs at these unprofitable rates and think it ultimately will ruin the expedite industry for the owner operators.

 

[xiggi]

You never know what is enough for the next guy to survive. The words cheap freight have never made any sense to me.

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[busop1]

You never know what is enough for the next guy to survive. The words cheap freight have never made any sense to me.

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True for sure - no way anyone can say what someone else needs or wants, everyone's balance sheet is different - I'll concede that.

But I think any time an expedited load moves on a dedicated truck at an LTL rate that constitutes 'cheap freight' for the expedite industry and is damaging to everyone's bottom line that makes their living in this industry. Would you agree?

I believe that every $0.80 - $1.00 a mile load I don't haul only increases expedite rates for me and you in the long run.

Tell me if I'm wrong?? That's what I'm asking for - am I missing something - it seems like simple supply and demand.

 

[zorry]

The OP is kind of at the bottom of the food chain.
He's limited by logging as a solo.
Then he's limited by not having a liftgate.
The loads he can cover are the easiest to cover.
Once he gets the co-driver I recommend put as many tools in the box as he can.
I'll pm the op some numbers.

 

[jjoerger]

Welcome to FedEx CC.


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[Turtle]

I believe that every $0.80 - $1.00 a mile load I don't haul only increases expedite rates for me and you in the long run.

Tell me if I'm wrong??

It's a nice and noble delusion, but yer wrong for the most part. You're right in theory, and in the abstract, but the reality is, as long as there is someone out there willing to take that cheap load, the rates will not and do not increase. It is nice to dream about drivers sitting there and each and every one of them turning down one cheap load offer after another, and by doing that the rates will increase, but that's just not gonna happen. For every $0.80 - $1.00 a mile load you don't haul, only increases the chances that someone else will take it for that, because it gets offered to more people. Offer it to enough people and someone will take it. If you're out in the fringes where no one else is, and the freight it truly important, you have a little more leverage, but on the whole it's a shipper's market, and they'll set the rates.

That's what I'm asking for - am I missing something - it seems like simple supply and demand.

It is, with supply being the truck capacity and the demand being the amount of freight to ship. As long as we have a glut of capacity, the rates will be forced downward, whether you accept or reject a given offer. It's more prevalent with cargo vans, but it's also evident with plain-Jane surface box trucks, that people get into the business easily and cheaply, will take those cheap loads for fuel or lunch money or because they're heading home, and they are gone from the business in 6-12 months when the want of new tires or brakes or something else they haven't properly planned for puts them out of business. The problem is, they are replaced as quickly as they exit with the same kind of people.

Another thing, if you notice, it really doesn't matter much generally what is going on economically or what the supply and demand situation is, carriers, brokers and shippers will, by and large, ship things at a rate that allows most of their trucks to remain in business - to allow the truck driver to pay his truck payment and other bills, and have enough to live on, and maybe a little bit beyond that, but not much more. It's always been that way, and it'll likely always be that way. The days of routine high dollar freight in expediting are long gone, and are not likely to come back.

 

[ATeam]

That makes sense. But I think this is just expanded details. I still see a huge problem in those that bid or accept runs at these unprofitable rates and think it ultimately will ruin the expedite industry for the owner operators.

I once questioned a carrier owner about the driver shortage and capacity constraints it might create. He was unconcerned. "The economy changes but the psychology never changes," he said. When I asked him what he meant by that, he started to explain but cut himself short and changed the subject. Apparently, I caught this particular person (not all carriers are like that) in a moment of truth-telling weakness and he revealed more about his business model than he wanted to.

What he meant was that there is a constant stream of people who are willing, for any number of reasons, to give trucking a try; but many of them are too stupid to know better. They don't do their homework, they don't manage their money, and they fail after working for several months or even years.

Those are the people who haul freight at money losing rates for this carrier owner while he laughs all the way to the bank.

There are brokers of a certain stripe who love this kind of owner-operator too. One once told me that if he has a load with which he can pay a truck $2.95 a mile, he will pitch it as a "back haul" load to drivers at $1.50 and often get it. "That's how I make my money," he said.

Part of the problem is drivers who run at money-losing rates. The other problem is highly intelligent people and preadator carriers and brokers that are skilled in identifying these drivers and taking full advantage of their generosity, desire for approval, fear of being in trouble or left out, lack of business sense, and other vulnerablities.

These are not carriers and brokers who would do better for the driver if only they could. These are very clever and highly skilled people who do everything they can to move money from the driver's pocket to their own.

 

[purgoose10]

This thread is directed to all D unit operators with all companies but perhaps more specific to those with experience with FDCC - feel free to respond but please stay on topic. All input is appreciated!!

I researched alot before putting a truck on with FDCC couple weeks ago. I have dealt with couple smaller carriers several years ago just recently bought another truck to get back out. My research led me to conclusion I could make more on ALL miles total with FDCC - truck is D unit single axle no lift gate dry box only currently solo driver - wife will join me in about 8-9 months. I also found others who had done extensive research and came to same conclusion. Of course much info came straight from carriers and much came from these forums and other owner ops.

Using today's fuel surcharges (included in my numbers) I believed my all miles (all miles meaning all empty miles included in numbers) total averages could be approximately as follows:

FDCC $1.50 mile (this is not white glove - it's surface expedite only % pay)
Panther $1.40 mile (solo driver w/ hazmat flat rate pay)
All other carriers $1.30 - $1.35 mile flat rate pay

Numbers are averages for all miles accruing on odometer while truck is in service divided into total revenue paid to truck including fuel surcharges during same time.

Landstar would probably be in same pay rates as FDCC based on research but wife and I don't have current enough driving exp for them plus i prefer logging on qualcomm not sure that they use qualcomm. Again my numbers are averages for ALL MILES - i only keep saying that so we all can talk numbers that are comparing apples to apples.

Since being on with FDCC about 12 days - yes I know this is very small sample - here are some numbers: 6 loads 1941 total miles = average ALL miles $1.42 which is OK.

I don't mind sitting. My truck is paid for and house and cars are paid for. I don't need miles for the sake of miles - that's why I keep talking an ALL Miles average pay. I don't believe expedite freight is suppose to be cheap freight. If they want cheap send it LTL.

My aggravation perhaps lies more with the 'FDCC system'. I have had 30 load offers sent to me of which my acceptance rate is only 20%. Why so low you wonder - because the loads offered have been this:

1 load offered @ $1.51 all miles (accepted)
1 load offered @ $1.35 all miles (accepted)
2 loads offered @ $1.20 all miles (accepted 1 heading to home)
5 loads offered @ $1.00 - $1.15 all miles (negotiated 2 up in pay and accepted)
21 loads offered @ $0.80 - $0.99 all miles (negotiated 1 up in pay and accepted)

FDCC own 2011 numbers say solo's made $1.49 all miles and teams $1.50 all miles adjusting to today's current fuel surcharge rates for apples to apples comparison.

Those with knowledge of FDCC - is my acceptance rate going to be frowned heavily upon?? or cost me load opps??

I am always very polite with dispatch and customers even when they can be clueless and/or aggravating at times lol. But again I'm not in this business to run cheap freight. I know my numbers are currently:

Fuel costs $0.45 per mile
truck maintenance $0.15 per mile
insurance/qualcomm/acc insurance so on $0.15 per mile

Thats total operating costs of $0.75 per mile. Now I did perty ok goode n skool - but who in their right minds are going to run expedited freight for $0.80 - $1.00 mile including fuel??

And still be able to feed themselves/family and put roof over their heads and make truck payments...

Apparently someone is. Why else would it be offered at such ridiculous low rates??

Remember my stuff is paid for - but this ole boy ain't runnin his truck for them rates. What gives?? Why are people doing this?? Can they not operate a calculator?? And if not should they be operating a truck?? What also about the truck owners out their with drivers in their trucks why are they allowing this to continue?? Can they not do the math either??

I also don't buy the argument that you should take cheap run to relocate. Why?? So more less than dollar a mile expedited freight can be expected by customers and offered by carriers??

Am I missing something here?? Are my numbers wrong?? Are my expectations unrealistic??

Feedback desired...Thanks and be safe.

I think you forgot one thing. Are you not wanting to get your initial investment back on your purchase?
I don't know how The Fed works but the dispatcher probably has a load coordinater working above him that tells his dispatchers that the Fed wants a minimum amount off each load and the 80c is what was left. Anyone that takes an 80c pm load hopefully is on his way to the house to quit.
Did you not say you were running for a set amount?

 

[busop1]

I think you forgot one thing. Are you not wanting to get your initial investment back on your purchase?
I don't know how The Fed works but the dispatcher probably has a load coordinater working above him that tells his dispatchers that the Fed wants a minimum amount off each load and the 80c is what was left. Anyone that takes an 80c pm load hopefully is on his way to the house to quit.
Did you not say you were running for a set amount?

I just for simplicity of my post didn't list truck note in my numbers - but it is actually there wrapped into my maint and deductions numbers of 30 cents per mile - to cover my investment & offer a small ROI of my cash loan to my business for truck purchase. I am running on percentage program.

And agree totally that:

"Anyone that takes an 80c pm load hopefully is on his way to the house to quit."

Because he's just bad for my business! One of my 80 cpm offers I received I actually countered for nearly double and got it!!

 

[ATeam]

Because he's just bad for my business! One of my 80 cpm offers I received I actually countered for nearly double and got it!!

You just explained in one sentence that you are contracting with a bad-faith carrier. A carrier that can pay $1.60 to the truck and offers $0.80 has abandoned all sense of partnership and is clearly putting its own interests ahead of the contractors, any one of which can be easily replaced.

 

[busop1]

The OP is kind of at the bottom of the food chain.
He's limited by logging as a solo.
Then he's limited by not having a liftgate.
The loads he can cover are the easiest to cover.
Once he gets the co-driver I recommend put as many tools in the box as he can.
I'll pm the op some numbers.

Zorry - Thanks for the PM. I responded back with couple brief questions when you have time. Thanks again

 

[busop1]

You just explained in one sentance that you are contracting with a bad-faith carrier. A carrier that can pay $1.60 to the truck and offers $0.80 has abandoned all sense of partnership and is clearly putting its own interests ahead of the contractors, any one of which can be easily replaced.

That's what I was wondering. Thanks for saying it without sugar coating it. As mentioned indirectly in my original post my lack of recent driving experience and my wife's no exp. factored into my carrier choice as well.

I don't mind negotiating - but thought the 80 cents to $1.60 was completely unnecessary and probably the biggest reason behind my starting this thread in first place.

Which lends to the thought should I have asked for $2.00 mile on that load?? How much am I leaving on the table evrytime??

Then again having to find that happy medium where I can get fair amount of work at the rates I think are at least fair to all parties.

 

[zorry]

Phil,Phil,Phil, a bad faith carrier ?
How about the fact they gave him the $1.60.
They may be soo good that they went out of pocket to cover the load.
Do you know all the circumstances ?
The dh % ?
or just another chance for Phil to bad mouth Fedex w/o knowing the facts ?

 

[jimby82]

That's what I was wondering. Thanks for saying it without sugar coating it. As mentioned indirectly in my original post my lack of recent driving experience and my wife's no exp. factored into my carrier choice as well.

I don't mind negotiating - but thought the 80 cents to $1.60 was completely unnecessary and probably the biggest reason behind my starting this thread in first place.

Which lends to the thought should I have asked for $2.00 mile on that load?? How much am I leaving on the table evrytime??

Then again having to find that happy medium where I can get fair amount of work at the rates I think are at least fair to all parties.

We've had similar things happen. I think sometimes it all depends on who the customer is. If a larger, "good" customer needs a load covered, the carrier may take a loss on ONE load to keep the customer happy. Same idea as a department store selling certain products below their cost to draw people in to buy the higher priced items ( or lure customers away from the competition )

 

[davekc]

If one is getting 1.50 as a flat rate and is offered a load at .80 cents, wouldn't they still get the 1.50 if on a flat rate program? What am I not getting? Why send bargain offers below your rate?

As for rates, unless you are seeing what is actually billed to the customer, you have no idea what or how many people it passed through as already mentioned. Just the same, in most cases a outside carrier will get a higher rate than a carriers own contractors for the same load.
It would be foolish to buy into the fact "that is all we have in it". Those are dispatch code words for "yes we are screwing you because we can".
Many nameless carriers operate this way so it isn't just a issue with the Fed.

 

[ATeam]

Do you know all the circumstances ?

I was with that carrier for eight years and am not without insight into its operations. The difference between me and many who remain happy with the carrier in question is that I lost the willingness to accept the new ways of doing business. I lost the ability to play under the new "rules."

It is a different company than it was when we started in 2003. The man is asking questions. I am offering my views.

We got offered the same stream of sub $1 loads that all contractors did. We negotiated as many did. It did not use to happen that we got offered such loads at all, then it became common. Also increasing in frequency was a "maybe" answer to counter offers we made. They told us they would offer it to other trucks first before meeting our price.

That's common among brokers and it could be considered fair play. It is a bad-faith action, I belive, when your contract describes a different dispatch system and when the company fails to discolse to the fleet the other deals it has going.

I'm not saying that is illegal, but it comes nowhere close to the fair dealing I expect when entering into a business relationship.