Opinions on self defense

[AMonger]

Broken window or not, the best thing legally is to drive away. Remember, YOU are the one escalating the use of force when you shot first and and ask questions later, and you WILL have to answer some hard questions later. Later when you are in a cell, and the other person is dead, then you will realize just how stupid it is to be acting macho, when driving away would have you driving merrily along to your pick up or drop off point.

You remind me of an article I read. I had written a letter to Combat Handguns Magazine, and they published in their section where they analyze self-defense situations to demonstrate when using a gun is or isn't justified. The letter following mine was written by the type of security guard we all wish was flipping burgers for a living, as long as they're not ours.
He wrote that his state, forget which dumb@$$ state it was, doesn't/didn't allow individuals to carry except for guards and cops and such, and for guards, they had to be on-duty at the time. So Nimrod states that he considers himself on-call 24/7, so he always carries. He says he was at an ATM one night, an enclosed one, when some drunk or punk appeared in the doorway. He says he hit CANCEL on the transaction, pulled his gun and announced, "I AM IN FEAR FOR MY LIFE. MOVE, OR I'LL SHOOT YOU!" Right away, I'm going, "Rrrrriiiiiiiight."
I wish i had had an opportunity to speak with Numbnuts. I'd explain to him that while saying that you're on-call 24/7 may our may not work with a cop in a state in which they make a point of denying your right to carry, it certainly won't after a shooting, when they tear apart your every action and inaction to determine your motive and maybe hang you for it. They'd call that carrying an illegal weapon and add it to your charges.
Second, and more important, if you've got time to make announcements about how you are in fear for your life, you're not.
This was just a guy who wanted to carry a gun and found ways that, in his mind, got around the prohibitions. They likely wouldn't work in court, especially after a shooting in a state that doesn't want citizens armed.
Which brings us to our current situation. Calling your CMV your home and declaring that you have an absolute right to shoot anyone who breaks the plane, so to speak, sounds good, and I sympathize, but it may not, in fact, probably won't, fly in court.

I can legally carry nationwide, but I leave the gun at home when I'm on a run. If it gets to the point of them getting van, let them have it, that's what insurance is for.

Ah, extra rights...gotta love 'em. How long, service-wise, does it take to get the retired-officer dispensation? And what if they don't want just the van, but your life, or your wife's, uh, let's just say they want something from your wife she doesn't want to give? Bet you'd miss your gun then.

 

[Dreamer]

If he looked like Charles Manson's brother, sure. Why not?

That's where there advantages to looking like me



Dale


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[bikerpaul]

AMonger: As for my wife, she never goes on a run with me. As for "How long, service-wise, does it take to get the retired-officer dispensation?" Do a Google search for HR 218. If you can't find it, here it is. H.R. 218 Final Text As for your signature "You know the problem with dishonest cops? It gives the other 5% a bad name.", evidently somewhere in the past you had a bad experience with a LEO. To blame 95% of all LEO's as bad, I won't even attempt to change your corrupted views.

 

[mxzane933]

The other night about 2 am my wife and I pulled into a Wal-Mart to sleep and sure as heck, we weren't there 2 minutes until some guy who looked like Charles Manson's brother beat on the glass of our Cargo Van. I mean this guy was scary. He managed to get to the van window before I saw him and he carried a gas can. I said, "Get out of here" but he said, "I need money for gas!" He didn't say, "Man, could you spare some gas money?" He demanded money for gas. After I told him to "GIT" he got mad. He said, "I'm asking you for help...Are you kidding me?"
I had already started reaching for my PPD...(Personal Protection Device) it comes in .45 caliber.... and I yelled. No, G#######it! I'm NOT kidding! Get the hell out of here! Fortunatley, he left before I had to deploy my PPD, but it got me to thinking. What would I have done if he had tried to force the door open or worse yet, break the van window. I was just curious what any of you more experienced drivers would have done. If he would have broken the window, I would have SHOT him. How do the rest of you feel about that? Thanks for your time.

Well you see here about a little less than a year ago I went through hell and high water to buy a mechete and its for situations like this I have my mechete ready to mech away. I think the way things are now adays that even though some companies do not allow you to carry protection, It is very necessary to carry some sort of protection with you because there are people out there that will do anything and i mean anything to put food on the table, get the next fix of drug, or just plane out do anything to make money. And god forbid the situation arises to any of us I would rather myself and anyone have proper means to protect theirself than the other option of hoping they take what they want and leave you alone. To the lost soul that is the one breaking in , a TT or straight truck or Van could have a million dollars worth of freight , they could think maybe there is laptops, ipods, watches, designer clothing, jewelery , or narcotics. Ever since I drove for prestige delivery systems being a IC for a courier route I carry some sort of protection because I had two routes one was for staples online customers which consisted of anything office oriented from computer paper to printers fax machines,cpu, and lap tops. And the other route I had was for Cardinal Pharmacueticals which I delivered medicine to 15 pharmacies and also was incharge of the delivery of the Narcotics and DEA 222 order forms. On any given day I had at a minimum of 1 million dollars street value in Prescription drugs like Pain killers in tablet form and liquid form as well which to drug addicts is like pharmacuetical grade heroine, testosterone aka steroids,pharma grade thc/ mariuana . And all of those type drugs arent shipped in secured vehicles just in a plane white cargo van unarmed and i was 21 at the time. So whats to stop a drug addict in a hard time from breaking in and killing the driver and taking a million dollars worth of drugs ? a locked door or glass window? Its scary stuff and horrer storys happen all the time. I guess its a decision you have to make and use your personal discretion on how to decide to carry protection or not carry protection. Me I carry the word of God and Mill spec sheath. The Mechete is retired tho lololol

 

[AMonger]

AMonger: As for my wife, she never goes on a run with me. As for "How long, service-wise, does it take to get the retired-officer dispensation?" Do a Google search for HR 218. If you can't find it, here it is. H.R. 218 Final Text As for your signature "You know the problem with dishonest cops? It gives the other 5% a bad name.", evidently somewhere in the past you had a bad experience with a LEO. To blame 95% of all LEO's as bad, I won't even attempt to change your corrupted views.

So the short answer is 15 years, aggregate.
95% is hyperbole.
It's more like 80%, I'm sure.

 

[xmudman]

Ever since I drove for prestige delivery systems being a IC for a courier route.... the other route I had was for Cardinal Pharmaceuticals which I delivered medicine to 15 pharmacies and also was in charge of the delivery of the Narcotics and DEA 222 order forms. Me I carry the word of God and Mill spec sheath. The Mechete is retired tho lololol

Did the same thing! Small world, eh Zane?

I was protected by the Lord as well (have been for a long time, especially to, from and in NYC) and a 2x4 with a small notch in one end. If a lawman ever asks what the 2-by is for, I tell him the notch goes on the steering wheel and the flat end goes on the brake pedal. Two dollar brake light checker for 1AM pretrips, ya know :0

 

[cheri1122]

Zane: the answer to your question on what's stopping the druggies from breaking into a van carrying "a million dollars [street value] of narcotics" is exactly as you described it: a plain white wrapper. They have no idea of the contents, and would assume that drugs are delivered with the same security as they are held onsite: lots of it. That anonymity is protective camo for the driver, IMO.
Kinda like Zane without the machete in the pants, lol.

 

[Pakrat]

Simply breaking your window does NOT constitute the use of deadly force. You have believe your life or limb, or that of another, is in imminent danger. Having said that, by the time the glass fell, he would have been trying to guess what caliber I carry based on the size of the hole in the barrel pointed at his head. If he did anything at that point that made me feel threatened.....

I'm not going to take a life over a window even if it was legal. I will take a life over mine/another's or physical harm.

Wasp spray is a terrible idea. (insert sarcasm) He was just wanting some spare change and now you have ruined his life. (remove sarcasm) A blind crook will sue you, a dead one will not.

 

[Callico]

Jambuck,

You are in a particularly difficult position here. If you were in the state of IL you would have been locked up for even showing a gun, let alone shooting a perpetrator. If you were in your house you might get away with self-defense, but since IL is the only state in the Union that does not allow concealed carry AND because of the requirements for how weapons must be carried in a vehicle, you would have been guilty of illegal possession of a firearm.

The use of deadly force is of course the last resort, but I know for myself that if I were in your shoes and he had broken the window or forced the door I would have shot. I have been in that position and the show of the weapon de-escalated the attempted robbery very fast, but I could not have gotten away with that had I been in IL. I'm glad I did not have to shoot, but I did learn at that time I would have, whereas before it had been theoretical.

All the best to you and your wife,
Jerry

 

[AMonger]

Jambuck,
You are in a particularly difficult position here. If you were in the state of IL you would have been locked up for even showing a gun, let alone shooting a perpetrator. If you were in your house you might get away with self-defense, but since IL is the only state in the Union that does not allow concealed carry AND because of the requirements for how weapons must be carried in a vehicle, you would have been guilty of illegal possession of a firearm.
The use of deadly force is of course the last resort, but I know for myself that if I were in your shoes and he had broken the window or forced the door I would have shot. I have been in that position and the show of the weapon de-escalated the attempted robbery very fast, but I could not have gotten away with that had I been in IL. I'm glad I did not have to shoot, but I did learn at that time I would have, whereas before it had been theoretical.
All the best to you and your wife,
Jerry

Not only that, but to possess a gun in Illinois, you have to a Firearms Owner's ID card issued by the state. Being in possession of a gun without one is a felony. And they have no open carry, either.

 

[LDB]

Several good reasons to never set foot or tires in Illinois.

 

[mjmsprt40]

Several good reasons to never set foot or tires in Illinois.

That's OK, I'll haul the freight you don't want here.

 

[xmudman]

Not only that, but to possess a gun in Illinois, you have to a Firearms Owner's ID card issued by the state. Being in possession of a gun without one is a felony. And they have no open carry, either.

And Chicago is SOOO safe

Good news for us out-of-staters:

Visiting Gun Owners Don't Need Illinois FOID: Supreme Court | NBC Chicago

Since a lot of links about this subject have mysteriously died in the time since the ruling, I submit the text of the article here.

"As long as an out-of-state visitor has properly registered their guns in their home state, they may legally transport them in Illinois without a license here, the Illinois Supreme Court ruled this week.
The court's decision stems from a 2005 case of a man who was arrested with a gun in a closed backseat armrest of his car.
Leonard Holmes was charged with felony aggravated unlawful use of weapon because he lacked a Firearm Owners Identification card and didn't have the gun in a case.
Holmes had a permit to carry a concealed firearm in Indiana, and the court held that Illinois law does not require a FOID card too. It also ruled the armrest served as a case.
"As the majority points out, if we were to strictly apply the FOID card requirement … nonresidents whose weapons are unloaded and enclosed in a case but who do not have an Illinois FOID card would be guilty of a felony," Supreme Court Justice Rita Garman wrote."


Source: Visiting Gun Owners Don't Need Illinois FOID: Supreme Court | NBC Chicago

 

[BigCat]

I delivered in a really really ghetto residential neighbor hood in melrose park,il just the other night. I will not do that again until the companies and government agencies allow gun in the trucks. I had 2 guys cross the street in front of me at 4 way stop, looked up at me and then turned and started coming at me and tried to open both my doors. All at 1:00 am.

Never again!

 

[mxzane933]

Did the same thing! Small world, eh Zane?

I was protected by the Lord as well (have been for a long time, especially to, from and in NYC) and a 2x4 with a small notch in one end. If a lawman ever asks what the 2-by is for, I tell him the notch goes on the steering wheel and the flat end goes on the brake pedal. Two dollar brake light checker for 1AM pretrips, ya know :0

i heard horror stories about nyc routes....



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[mxzane933]

Zane: the answer to your question on what's stopping the druggies from breaking into a van carrying "a million dollars [street value] of narcotics" is exactly as you described it: a plain white wrapper. They have no idea of the contents, and would assume that drugs are delivered with the same security as they are held onsite: lots of it. That anonymity is protective camo for the driver, IMO.
Kinda like Zane without the machete in the pants, lol.

lol yea true but all takes is the wrong.cat on a wet day and it's bad news bears.

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[mxzane933]

Did the same thing! Small world, eh Zane?

I was protected by the Lord as well (have been for a long time, especially to, from and in NYC) and a 2x4 with a small notch in one end. If a lawman ever asks what the 2-by is for, I tell him the notch goes on the steering wheel and the flat end goes on the brake pedal. Two dollar brake light checker for 1AM pretrips, ya know :0

oh and btw yessir that's my main weapon in my armory big guy up stairs.

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[AMonger]

And Chicago is SOOO safe

Good news for us...

"As long as an out-of-state visitor has properly registered their guns in their home state, they may legally transport them in Illinois without a license here, the Illinois Supreme Court ruled this week.
The court's decision stems from a 2005 case of a man who was arrested with a gun in a closed backseat armrest of his car.
Leonard Holmes was charged with felony aggravated unlawful use of weapon because he lacked a Firearm Owners Identification card and didn't have the gun in a case.
Holmes had a permit to carry a concealed firearm in Indiana, and the court held that Illinois law does not require a FOID card too. It also ruled the armrest served as a case.
"As the majority points out, if we were to strictly apply the FOID card requirement … nonresidents whose weapons are unloaded and enclosed in a case but who do not have an Illinois FOID card would be guilty of a felony," Supreme Court Justice Rita Garman wrote."

It might be because the stricter application of the law would conflict with the Federal Firearm Owner's Protection Act, which states that anyone may transport a firearm if it's locked up separate from the ammunition and in a locked case, inaccessible to the occupants, and if possession of it is legal at both the origin and destination points of his journey. It likely wouldn't apply to a loaded firearm in reach of the driver or other occupant.

 

[Opel2010]

Standard reply to people asking for money...

"I travel on company credit cards, and they keep track of every penny."

End of conversation.

That's what I tell 'em too... gee, I'm getting tired listening every time the same lack o'money story... on time, at Pilot in Hayti, MO, a guy dressed as a priest asked me for moolah, telling me that his people are waiting for him, and he is already late, and blah, blah, blah... y'all know the final request!

 

[AMonger]

That's what I tell 'em too... gee, I'm getting tired listening every time the same lack o'money story... on time, at Pilot in Hayti, MO, a guy dressed as a priest asked me for moolah, telling me that his people are waiting for him, and he is already late, and blah, blah, blah... y'all know the final request!

I had a Russian co-driver. He was really hard on beggars. I'd give them a couple bucks for cleaning the glass all around, showing they were at least willing to work a little, but this Russian, he would yell, "GO AWAY! GET JOB!"