OOIDA - Protecting drivers rights

moose · Dec 27, 2012

So the FMCSA come's up with an HOS regulations.
then they instructed LEO's to ignore them all together, and place drivers OOS just because they feel like.
or because they need to collect drivers money...
So, OOIDA take them to court and the court find that as long as the drivers are in full compliance with the HOS - they are NOT legally fatigue.
then the FMCSA decide to ignore the court decisions, and in a letter to CVSA, they allow troopers to place drivers OOS even if the driver is with full compliance.
it is sad that in America we must take a federal agency to court, in order to protect our rights, but in today world the courts are our only protections from an out of control agency.
story here :
TheTrucker.com - America's Trucking Newspaper

Land Line Magazine: The Business Magazine for Professional Truckers

here's a simple question. if you are been placed OOS, despite been in full compliance, what will you do ?, do you have a plan ?.

BigCat · Dec 28, 2012

I have a plan, I'll drive off because they can't detain me for being in compliance. If I'm clearly over hos ill agree I should be shut down but not any other reason.

layoutshooter · Dec 28, 2012

Just one more nail in the coffin. This is just the beginning. Just wait for Obama Care kicks in all the way and THEN they will have a MAJOR weapon against us.

Government out of control.

OntarioVanMan · Dec 28, 2012

Section 8 of the constitution....

3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

18: To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

So the movement of goods...commerce between states...That is why you are having to fight so much.....Which in a FREE country you have a right too do....

highway star · Dec 28, 2012

BigCat said:
I have a plan, I'll drive off because they can't detain me for being in compliance. If I'm clearly over hos ill agree I should be shut down but not any other reason.

Let us know how that works if you get a chance to try it.

I'm wondering what an officer should do if a driver shows him a log that says he is in compliance, but is obviously and seriously fatigued. The officer should let him go even if the driver is at risk of nodding at the wheel? The driver may have taken a 10 at the proper time to be legal, but what if he only slept 2 hours?

BigCat · Dec 28, 2012

I think everyone at some time nods at the wheel. I mean just driving through sd,wy, and mt will cause you to fatigue quickly. Whether I sleep 2 or 10 hours as long as I have required 10 hour break its my business. If I get that tired ill pull over but don't put me oos because you saw me yawn.

xiggi · Dec 28, 2012

That's the attitude that got things to where they are today IMHO.

Sent from my Fisher Price - ABC 123

BigCat · Dec 28, 2012

xiggi said:
That's the attitude that got things to where they are today IMHO.

Sent from my Fisher Price - ABC 123

No it is not. It is the fact everyone is money hungry. You notice with every regulation there is a fine? Very few Leo give a warning anymore. How is paying a fine making the roads any safer? What about the 4 wheelers (and sprinters) who drive fatigued? But no pick on the truck drivers.

Besides there was no attitude in my post. If you can't hold me for a legit reason, I have a job today and no one is going to stop me from doing that.

beachbum · Dec 28, 2012

Moose, that was a lawsuit against Mn. not the FMCSA. OOIDA took MN and the CVSA to court because CVSA used the Mn fatigued rule for their roadside check and the court found against OOIDA not to long ago and told them to work it out.

These things OOIDA doesn't talk about munch when they lose a case or don't get everything they ask for.

What OOIDA is suing FMCSA for is they are adopting a rule without going thrurule making process and it will be up to the courts now.

moose · Dec 28, 2012

beachbum said:
Moose, that was a lawsuit against Mn. not the FMCSA. OOIDA took MN and the CVSA to court because CVSA used the Mn fatigued rule for their roadside check and the court found against OOIDA not to long ago and told them to work it out. The court did not found against OOIDA (or maybe a link can be provided to enlighten us). what the court basically said is "you 2, i told you once to sort it up, now sit down, talk to each other and solve it once and for all" which not only did not happened , but the M.N DOT continue to enforce it's own rules. the MNDOT say their new program is in compliance with the court order & OOIDA said Nay.
to be continued.
OOIDA now looking for drivers that are impacted by this new program, and are willing to go to court over this. so far no luck (or actually good luck!). every time i crossed into Minnesota i kind of hopping they will choose me...

These things OOIDA doesn't talk about munch when they lose a case or don't get everything they ask for.they actually reported every single court action on the radio show, on line and on LandLineMag. i think it can be found online on their website by using the archive

What OOIDA is suing FMCSA for is they are adopting a rule without going thrurule making process and it will be up to the courts now.

you are correct. but this is only part of the problem. the bigger problem is that this administration is pushing the legal envelope so far out, that the only way of protecting Americans from the Gov. is taking them to court. the unfortunate results are that the (unelected) courts bureaucrats are the ones writing the new laws. not the legislative branch. this is not a good idea.

moose · Dec 28, 2012

BigCat said:
I have a plan, I'll drive off because they can't detain me for being in compliance. If I'm clearly over hos ill agree I should be shut down but not any other reason.

thanks for cheamping in (LoL)
this is not a good idea. whether the officer was right about the OOS order or not, driving while OOS is one of our industry worst violation. it carry some significant penalty's. (automatic suspension for 60 days and in some states revocation of any driving privilege.) if caught you will not have any chance of getting any driving job.
my best advice is documentation.
collect any piece of information about the facts leading to the citation, during and after.
a citation is no more then the officer opinion of what took place, if an officer if found to be wrong in a later court, then you can go after him personally for any money lost you suffered. so documentation of time, revenue ext. is very important.
never argue with the guy that hold the gun & the badge. let him do his thing and get him later on. remember that anything you say to any LEO can be used against you. so only answer direct questions. & keep your answers short. nothing stands up in court better then showing how the officer made an assumptions base on questions he failed to ask .
there's must be a pocketbook about this somewhere...
remember, the green book hold the officer to be in compliance with the law just as much as it's hold the driver.

moose · Dec 28, 2012

BigCat said:
. Whether I sleep 2 or 10 hours as long as I have required 10 hour break its my business..

You are correct about this.
...for now.
the definition of HOR is to give the driver the opportunity to get rested. for now we are not required to prove we slept. the question that the officer must answer is "dose this driver is legally fatigue?"
i said 'for now' because the whole sleep apnea crap is going to change that. drivers that are using CPAC are forced to prove they are not only 'not legally fatigue', but also 'well rested'. some large ATA carriers already have an in-cab-camcorders, where they are monitoring their drivers, and can show if the driver is well rested or not.
and this is how the good o'l ATA shove 'eliminating competitions by regulation'...

BigCat · Dec 28, 2012

That will be the day the country shuts down. Guys are already walking away and it hasn't even hit its worst yet. I see bad things happening.

beachbum · Dec 29, 2012

BigCat said:
No it is not. It is the fact everyone is money hungry. You notice with every regulation there is a fine? Very few Leo give a warning anymore. How is paying a fine making the roads any safer? What about the 4 wheelers (and sprinters) who drive fatigued? But no pick on the truck drivers.

Besides there was no attitude in my post. If you can't hold me for a legit reason, I have a job today and no one is going to stop me from doing that.

Because 4 wheelers are not covered by the FMCSA they are not commercial vehicles there private.

Sprinters and vans are not commercial vehicles because there under 10001 gvwr, that is until they have placards on the side of the vehicle or pull a trailer at that time they become a commercial operation.

Life sucks when you have to log and our controlled by the Feds.

beachbum · Dec 29, 2012

BigCat said:
I think everyone at some time nods at the wheel. I mean just driving through sd,wy, and mt will cause you to fatigue quickly. Whether I sleep 2 or 10 hours as long as I have required 10 hour break its my business. If I get that tired ill pull over but don't put me oos because you saw me yawn.

There is a FMCSA rule about driving while fatigued or ill. look it up

BigCat · Dec 29, 2012

beachbum said:
Because 4 wheelers are not covered by the FMCSA they are not commercial vehicles there private.

Sprinters and vans are not commercial vehicles because there under 10001 gvwr, that is until they have placards on the side of the vehicle or pull a trailer at that time they become a commercial operation.

Life sucks when you have to log and our controlled by the Feds.

I understand but what I'm saying is they are just as likely to cause an accident if driving tired.

What about the Penske straight trucks people use to move? Anyone else think its funny they can run til their heart is content but if you put a company name on it now that same truck has to go by hos rules?

BigCat · Dec 29, 2012

And nah life doesn't suck having to log. I make more money running legal than I would driving a cv.

Rocketman · Dec 29, 2012

BigCat said:
And nah life doesn't suck having to log. I make more money running legal than I would driving a cv.

Yeah...it sucks....you may be making more money, but it still sucks.

BigCat · Dec 29, 2012

Well not really. Logging isn't hard it is trying to make money with all the regs. I don't have that problem now that I'm with a small 10 truck company that pays me better than any other driving job I've had. Oh and I run legal too.

OntarioVanMan · Dec 29, 2012

BigCat said:
Well not really. Logging isn't hard it is trying to make money with all the regs. I don't have that problem now that I'm with a small 10 truck company that pays me better than any other driving job I've had. Oh and I run legal too.

Isn't that a comforting feeling?....you don't have to run illegal to make a good living...unlike expedite where you have to plan and plan and plan and replan...