NAG1 Fluid

[Steady Eddie]

I ask this question on another site, got nothing so far.

I've been looking around for approved transmission fluid. Came across Valvoline MaxLife ATF Ful Synthetic

Spec sheet shows
2003- 2009 Sprinter NAG1 Mopar P/n 05127382AA, MB NAG1, Shell ATF 3403 M115

Same specs in my owners manual. Auto Zone $6.00 per qt.

Has anyone used this?

 

[Turtle]

That's a spec sheet written by Valvoline. Valvoline is saying, in effect, "MB hasn't approved this fluid, but it's fine to use, trust me on this."

The specs listed in that spec sheet (if they had been approved) are for MB Spec 236.10, which has been superseded twice with 236.12 and 236.14. The Mopar part number is now actually MB Spec 236.14, and has been since 2009.

Mercedes Benz has not approved any Valvoline transmission fluid other than Valvoline SYNPOWER ATF 134 (MB spec 236.14).

There are several types of NAG1 transmission. Chrysler uses the various NAG1 versions in many high performance automobile applications. The Sprinter's NAG1 (designation 722.681) has several clutch discs that are unique to the Sprinter application, so a fluid listed as being for a NAG1 transmission won't cut it. MB has always claimed that the Sprinter's commercial vehicle TCM programming is calibrated specifically for the use of the factory specified Shell/Fuchs fluid and "the use of a non-approved ATF may result in shifting concerns and clutch discs may wear prematurely". Warranties in effect would then be voided, despite Valvoline insisting the warranty would not be void. Mercedes has voided many warranties for the use of non-approved transmission fluid. Granted, yours is no longer in warranty, but the correct approved fluid is something to consider.

Here's a post from Valvoline that lists a disturbingly far too many vehicles that the MaxLife ATF can be used for, and it should give one pause, especially noting the asterisks that denote actual transmissions for which it is approved. It's a remarkable list, considering the Sprinter transmission fluid is only to be used in Sprinters and Crossfires, because of the unique clutch discs and other friction parts.

It's important that the bottle's label specifically state that it is for MB Spec 236.10 or 236.12 or 236.14. If you use 236.10 fluid, then you should add a can of BG ATC Plus which adds the same friction modifiers to bring it up to the new 236.14 specs. If you have a Silverstar, then you should add the BG ATC Plus regardless. (I get my BG ATC Plus Automatic Transmission Conditioner here)

This page lists the absolute up-to-date approved fluids for any given MB spec.


FWIW, the last two times I got transmission fluid I got it here:
Shell ATF 134 Mercedes Benz Jeep Chrysler Dodge 236.14 722.6 | eBay
I ordered a case of 12 for $81.25 plus $22.73 shipping.

 

[danthewolf00]

I used amsoil for 5 years in my sprinter.....

 

[Steady Eddie]

That's a spec sheet written by Valvoline. Valvoline is saying, in effect, "MB hasn't approved this fluid, but it's fine to use, trust me on this."

The specs listed in that spec sheet (if they had been approved) are for MB Spec 236.10, which has been superseded twice with 236.12 and 236.14. The Mopar part number is now actually MB Spec 236.14, and has been since 2009.

Mercedes Benz has not approved any Valvoline transmission fluid other than Valvoline SYNPOWER ATF 134 (MB spec 236.14).

There are several types of NAG1 transmission. Chrysler uses the various NAG1 versions in many high performance automobile applications. The Sprinter's NAG1 (designation 722.681) has several clutch discs that are unique to the Sprinter application, so a fluid listed as being for a NAG1 transmission won't cut it. MB has always claimed that the Sprinter's commercial vehicle TCM programming is calibrated specifically for the use of the factory specified Shell/Fuchs fluid and "the use of a non-approved ATF may result in shifting concerns and clutch discs may wear prematurely". Warranties in effect would then be voided, despite Valvoline insisting the warranty would not be void. Mercedes has voided many warranties for the use of non-approved transmission fluid. Granted, yours is no longer in warranty, but the correct approved fluid is something to consider.

Here's a post from Valvoline that lists a disturbingly far too many vehicles that the MaxLife ATF can be used for, and it should give one pause, especially noting the asterisks that denote actual transmissions for which it is approved. It's a remarkable list, considering the Sprinter transmission fluid is only to be used in Sprinters and Crossfires, because of the unique clutch discs and other friction parts.

It's important that the bottle's label specifically state that it is for MB Spec 236.10 or 236.12 or 236.14. If you use 236.10 fluid, then you should add a can of BG ATC Plus which adds the same friction modifiers to bring it up to the new 236.14 specs. If you have a Silverstar, then you should add the BG ATC Plus regardless. (I get my BG ATC Plus Automatic Transmission Conditioner here)

This page lists the absolute up-to-date approved fluids for any given MB spec.


FWIW, the last two times I got transmission fluid I got it here:
Shell ATF 134 Mercedes Benz Jeep Chrysler Dodge 236.14 722.6 | eBay
I ordered a case of 12 for $81.25 plus $22.73 shipping.

The bottle said for nag1. When I got home I looked it up and it did say 2003-2009 Sprinter. It also showed the correct Mopar part number from the Crossfire/Sprinter qt I have. Also, it listed the Crossfire with a nag1- shell l12108. All of the listed fluid specifications from Valvoline match what I have from MB.


It is not the 236.10. 236.12 and 236.14 is there. I'll keep checking around and asking. I may call them Monday and see what I can find out. See if I can get them to put it in writing,-lol

 

[Steady Eddie]

I used amsoil for 5 years in my sprinter.....

Dan, you may want to read this about Amsoil in Sprinters. This is where I posted my question. The MB Approved Spec sheet for fluids may have come out before the MaxLife.

Amsoil transmission fluid and erratic shifting - Sprinter-Forum

 

[Turtle]

The bottle said for nag1.

Not all NAG1 transmission are created equal. There are 26 different variations of the NAG1 transmission, and 9 different fluid spec numbers for them. They are not all interchangeable. The Sprinter and Crossfire have the same variation of the NAG1, and use the same MB spec fluid. The MB W221, the MB C215 and the MB C216, for example, have the same NAG1 transmissions as each other, but they use a different MB spec fluid than the Sprinter/Crossfire variation of the NAG1.

When I got home I looked it up and it did say 2003-2009 Sprinter. It also showed the correct Mopar part number from the Crossfire/Sprinter qt I have. Also, it listed the Crossfire with a nag1- shell l12108. All of the listed fluid specifications from Valvoline match what I have from MB.

Oh, I know. I've seen the bottle. I wanted to buy it, too. They have everything on there but the most important and critical item, the MB spec number. Valvoline is insisting that their fluid matches the specs for the 236.10 fluid, and if that were true, then they'd be able to put the MB spec number right there on the label.

It is not the 236.10. 236.12 and 236.14 is there. I'll keep checking around and asking. I may call them Monday and see what I can find out. See if I can get them to put it in writing,-lol

They won't put it in writing. That post from the Valvoline guy is proof of that.

When a new fluid (oil, transmission, whatever) comes out, the manufacturer of the fluid sends it to Mercedes for testing and approval. The fluid either meets or exceeds the spec, or they don't. If they don't, Mercedes doesn't approve it. If Mercedes approves it, then the manufacturer can put the MB spec number on the bottle. If the MB spec number isn't on the bottle, regardless of whatever else on on there, then it's not approved.

They can get into big trouble if they put the MB spec number on the bottle and it hasn't been approved by MB. Just ask Amsoil. They know. They were putting MB spec on their engine oil despite never even having submitted the oil to MB for testing and approval. Mercedes busted them hard. Amsoil then submitted the oil for testing and it didn't meet the specs for approval. Amsoil then reformulated the oil, resubmitted it, and it was approved.

The MB VeVo link to the database of specifications for operating fluids is the most up to date list available. Newly approved fluids hit that list before the fluids actually hit the market, because they must be on that list before they can legally be marketed with the MB spec number. That list is the proverbial "The List." Always stick to The List.

Unfortunately, most of the items on The List aren't available in North America, so it can get tricky, and frustrating, at times.

 

[Steady Eddie]

Seems they have already covered their butts

THOMAS R. SMITH
Vice President, Branded Lubricant Technology
August 8, 2013
To Whom It May Concern:
MaxLife ATF is a full synthetic automatic transmission fluid designed to meet the needs of the broadest range of transmission designs. MaxLife ATF recommendations are based on a combination of field-testing and laboratory testing.
Valvoline recommends MaxLife ATF in a broad range of transmissions. The list below is just a sample of applications where Valvoline supports the use of MaxLife ATF. Valvoline has conducted in-house testing, independent lab testing, and field-testing to support MaxLife ATF performance in these transmissions; however, it is important to note that the respective vehicle manufacturers have neither evaluated nor approved MaxLife ATF in these applications.
• Allison TES 389, C-4
• Audi/VW G-055-025-A2, G-052-162-A1/A2, G-052-990-A2, G-055-005-A2, G-055-162-A6, G-060-162-A2
• BMW LT71141, LA2634, M-1375.4 fluids
• Chrysler Diamond SP-III, NAG-1, 3403 M115
• Ford MERCON
• Ford FNR5
• Ford MERCON® V
• Ford MERCON® SP
• MERCON® LV
• GM 9986195
• GM DEXRON® II, III and VI
• Honda/Acura ATF-Z1, DW1 (except in CVTs)
• Hyundai SP-II, SP-III, SP-IV, SPH-IV, SP4-M
• JWS 3309
• JASO 1A
• KIA SP-II and SP-III Fluids
• KIA Red 1
• Mazda M-V
• Mercedes Benz MB236.1, MB236.6, MB236.7, MB236.9, MB236.10
• Mercedes Benz NAG-1
• MOPAR AS68RC ATF
• Miscellaneous OEMs – M1375.4, M1375.6, LT 71141, ETL-7045E, ETL-8072B, 3403 M115, N402
• Mitsubishi Diamond SP-II and SP-III
• Nissan Matic-D, Matic-J, Matic-K, and Matic-S
• Saab 93 165 147
• Subaru ATF
• Subaru ATF-HP
• Toyota / Lexus Type T, T-III and T-IV
• Toyota WS
• Volvo 1161521 and 1161540, and STD 1273.41
• VW TL52162, LT71141
• ZF TE-ML-14B, 16L, 17C
Please note: Valvoline has recently received reports of shudder in some Volvo XC series and Mazda CX9 vehicles with Aisin 6-speed transmissions. We are investigating this and in the meantime recommend that customers use the OEM fluid for these specific applications until we can resolve the issue.
Valvoline stands behind all of its products, including MaxLife ATF. Use of MaxLife ATF in transmissions where recommended by Valvoline WILL NOT void the vehicle’s warranty. Vehicle manufacturers are restricted by federal law from including the requirement of the use of a specific brand or trade name of product or service as a condition of their warranty. The following is an extract from the Federal Trade Commission’s web site on interpretation of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act:
"Tie-In Sales" Provisions Generally, tie-in sales provisions are not allowed. Such a provision would require a purchaser of the warranted product to buy an item or service from a particular company to use with the warranted product in order to be eligible to receive a remedy under the warranty. The following are examples of prohibited tie-in sales provisions.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

it is important to note that the respective vehicle manufacturers have neither evaluated nor approved MaxLife ATF in these applications.

This line says it all.....

 

[Turtle]

Seems they have already covered their butts

You didn't click on the "Here's a post from Valvoline that lists... " link, did you?

It's the same thing at the link, except there is an " * " at the end of a scant few lines (two of them) that show where Valvoline has actually been approved by the vehicle manufacturer. But the fact that NAG1 and GM DEXRON are both listed as using the same fluid should give one serious pause.

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty act does indeed prohibit manufacturers from including the requirement of the use of a specific brand or trade name of product or service as a condition of their warranty. For example, "In order to keep your new Plenum Brand Vacuum Cleaner warranty in effect, you must use genuine Plenum Brand Filter Bags.” They can't do that.

Likewise, the FTC has said that automobile manufacturers may not condition their warranties on the use of specific brand name parts or motor oil, at least not without proof that they are necessary to proper functioning or performance. In the case of MD approved fluids, MB couldn't care less what brand a fluid is, they only care whether or not the fluid meets the performance specs, thus the MB spec number on the bottle. If you use a fluid that doesn't have the correct performance specifications, it can and will void the warranty.

I still remember several years ago when a guy was all proud of himself when he used the best ATF ever invented, Dexron III, in his new Sprinter at the first transmission fluid change, because it was so much cheaper than the ripoff Mopar fluid at the dealer. Two weeks later be had to buy a new transmission.

 

[Steady Eddie]

You didn't click on the "Here's a post from Valvoline that lists... " link, did you?

Sure I did. That's why I posted the text and not the link.

I'm going for it. Will let ya know how it goes.

 

[Turtle]

You're a braver man than I am, Gunga Din.

I would strongly recommend supplementing that fluid with the BG ATC Plus. One can at the fluid change, then another one midway between changes or at the first sign of RSN.

 

[zorry]

For us non-$printer guys.
How much is he saving ?
Whats the downside ?

So us playing at home can do our own risk analysis.

With out the numbers, I'm pretty sure what my outcome will be.

 

[Steady Eddie]

For us non-$printer guys.
How much is he saving ?
Whats the downside ?

So us playing at home can do our own risk analysis.

With out the numbers, I'm pretty sure what my outcome will be.

$15.00 + per qt savings x 8
downside.... burn up trans... or it will work just fine. no one really knows at this time.

 

[greasytshirt]

I still remember several years ago when a guy was all proud of himself when he used the best ATF ever invented, Dexron III, in his new Sprinter at the first transmission fluid change, because it was so much cheaper than the ripoff Mopar fluid at the dealer. Two weeks later be had to buy a new transmission.

This is one of many reasons why a lot of new cars don't have dipsticks for the transmission. People are going to buy the cheapest red fluid they can find, and when they pour it in it'll be way overfull. Then it'll blow up, and he'll tell all his friends that 'Brand X is junk!'

I still see people putting non detergent 30wt oil into new cars because it's 50 cents cheaper than the cheapest oil in the whole store.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

$15.00 + per qt savings x 8
downside.... burn up trans... or it will work just fine. no one really knows at this time.

OR you could buy the fluid from Turtles source....I can't remember the numbers but it is quite a bit less then 21....somewhere in between I believe...maybe Turle could post it?

 

[Steady Eddie]

OR you could buy the fluid from Turtles source....I can't remember the numbers but it is quite a bit less then 21....somewhere in between I believe...maybe Turle could post it?

NO, NO, not when I can get it for $6.00 a qt..... LOL

 

[OntarioVanMan]

NO, NO, not when I can get it for $6.00 a qt..... LOL

and you call me a cheap azz...whats next splitting hot dogs?.....LOL

 

[Turtle]

For us non-$printer guys.
How much is he saving ?
Whats the downside ?

So us playing at home can do our own risk analysis.

With out the numbers, I'm pretty sure what my outcome will be.

Like he said, the difference is like $15 a quart. It's roughly $20 a quart at the dealer (some are high as $24). From Europarts the OEM Mopar branded fluid (which contains Fuchs/Shell fluid) is $19.50, and the imported from Europe Fuchs branded fluid is $12.50 a quart (plus shipping, which brings it closer to $14 a quart). Rider Fleet Products used to sell Pennzoil branded (contains Fuchs/Shell fluid) for less than $6 a quart by the case, but they had leakage problems with the bottles and stopped shipping them. I get mine off ebay for $6.77 a quart. With shipping it's $8.66 a quart. The eBay shipper places tape around each bottle cap to prevent leaking during shipment.

The downside, like he said, is a burned up transmission. Each flavor of NAG1 has different friction parts, and they each require specific fluid with different friction modifiers. Silverstar transmissions are remanufactured using friction parts which require the 236.14 fluid, and as far as I know all of the Mercedes remanufactured transmission do the same. All of the 2010 and later Sprinters require the new 236.14 fluid. If you use 236.10 fluid with a remanufactured transmission, adding the BG ATC Plus will add in the necessary friction modifiers.

I use the Shell 236.14 and still add in the BG conditioner, at the suggestion of Silverstar, and change the fluid every 30,000 miles.

 

[Turtle]

OR you could buy the fluid from Turtles source....I can't remember the numbers but it is quite a bit less then 21....somewhere in between I believe...maybe Turle could post it?

If I were Eddie, I'd give Sayle Oil Co. on Lamar a call (901-366-0544). They're a Shell distributor. They also have a location in Jackson. See what kind of price on the Shell ATF 134 you can get from them.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Bottom line message here is....if you own a sprinter you accept all the known costs associated with it....do your best to minimize your costs without hurting yourself....there is no half way...do it right or not at all....