More Insight Into Baltimore's Crime Problems

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
By the way, petrochemical jobs have been around since oil was discovered. The Texas Railroad Commission does just fine on regulating.
Ya see, in Texas, unlike places like California, New York and Illinois to name a few, is a business friendly environment. We don't make regulations for the sake of regulating. We work and TALK with businesses to solve problems. A lesson the rest of the country can learn from.

Nobody makes regulations "for the sake of regulating" - regulations are necessary to prevent those who would harm others [a few or many] in their own self interests. Should we allow a business to dump toxic poison into the water supply? Regulation has become a curse word to some, but when 'business friendly" means letting businesses write the regulations, we remember why it's a bad idea to let the fox guard the henhouse.
Texas is one of the worst at selling out the best interests of it's own citizens for the profit of the few [both in business and legislative areas.]
 

golfournut

Veteran Expediter
Nobody makes regulations "for the sake of regulating" - regulations are necessary to prevent those who would harm others [a few or many] in their own self interests. Should we allow a business to dump toxic poison into the water supply? Regulation has become a curse word to some, but when 'business friendly" means letting businesses write the regulations, we remember why it's a bad idea to let the fox guard the henhouse.
Texas is one of the worst at selling out the best interests of it's own citizens for the profit of the few [both in business and legislative areas.]

What bubble do you live in?
 

golfournut

Veteran Expediter
Compared to most of you, I'm liberal, and so is virtually everyone I know well. And guess what? We all work for a living, and expect that everyone else should, too. We do not "want to pay for folks to sit home" - that's just nucking futs.
OTOH, we don't like the way the value of labor is degraded, while those whose 'contribution' consists of raking in stupid amounts of money for things like whatever they do on Wall Street are considered superior, because: obviously.
"Labor" has become a commodity, treated as such, and the ways in which it has been [artificially] devalued and consciously degraded over the past decades include:

Limiting wage growth
Outsourcing work/jobs
Union busting
Moving jobs to 'right to work' states, and/or overseas
Increasing part time jobs
Not compensating productivity gains [to labor - management is compensated]
Shifting costs [health care, pensions] to workers
Classifying workers as Independent Contractors [even sex trade/porn workers!]
Increasing unpaid internships
Temporary/agency workers
Reductions in force due to mergers & acquisitions

Abraham Lincoln said:
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed, if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."

Somehow, that's gotten completely turned upside down, and where it will end is worrisome. What is happening in Baltimore, Ferguson, and other places should be a wake up call: the poor [which increasingly includes working class people and even veterans & active service people, for Gawdsakes!] can be manipulated and mistreated for just so long, and then there will be a backlash. And it will be ugly.

Graduate from high school would be the first step. While in school, learn something. Like how to read, talk and communicate.
Yea yea yea, poor little poor folk.
You owe me. I deserve it. You got to share your money.
BS! What about, you don't like your circumstance, what are YOU going to do about it. In Baltimore, they'd rather sit on the "stoop" than take a night course in something.

By the way, there will always be the "haves" and the "have nots". That's just how it is. The "have nots" will always want more of what the "haves" have. Throughout time and history, they have never gotten it by someone giving it to them. Nor will they now. The ONLY way a "have not" has gotten what a "have" has is by self improvement.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
What bubble do you live in?

If you have an intelligent [or even halfway] comment to make, or some rebuttal that would prove what I said is wrong, then go for it.
^This^ doesn't qualify.
I work in a field that is choked with regulations, and while I dislike many of them, I understand the reasoning behind them. When drivers could run 24/7, many did, and there was carnage in their wake. Without scales, trucks would likely be falling apart on the interstate, endangering everyone, including me. So we log, and get inspected, and deal with it.
When regulations don't make sense, [or no longer apply], there are ways to deal with that, and it's not to scream about regulation as if it exists solely to prevent someone from exercising their rights.
Decrying regulation is just as hypocritical as decrying the government - until you need them, as Ted Cruz is demonstrating right now. And as Rick Perry did, asking for federal assistance [ie: $$$] after the fertilizer plant exploded in West. An explosion of a private enterprise, mind you, that could have been prevented, if Texas had imposed the regulations that other states require of potentially lethal chemicals, BTW. But Governor Perry didn't want to burden the owners about running a safe operation, and you see how that turned out.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Graduate from high school would be the first step. While in school, learn something. Like how to read, talk and communicate.
Yea yea yea, poor little poor folk.
You owe me. I deserve it. You got to share your money.
BS! What about, you don't like your circumstance, what are YOU going to do about it. In Baltimore, they'd rather sit on the "stoop" than take a night course in something.

By the way, there will always be the "haves" and the "have nots". That's just how it is. The "have nots" will always want more of what the "haves" have. Throughout time and history, they have never gotten it by someone giving it to them. Nor will they now. The ONLY way a "have not" has gotten what a "have" has is by self improvement.


You did not reply to a single point I made - just parroted more of what the right wing media tells you is happening, illustrated with anecdotes. Impressive: not at all.
There are people who have graduated from high school, and from college too, and had a decent job, until it got yanked out from under them, courtesy of one or more of the factors I listed. And when they looked for work to replace it, they found the environment has changed since they last had to job search, and they are out of luck. It's pretty much low wages or no wages, take your pick.
There are people who wanted to get more education, and signed on with a for profit "college" that took their money [from student loans they will have to repay, no matter what] and then shut the school down. They're out of luck too, because the government can't stop the scammers from doing it again, under a different name.
There are people who can't even get a minimum wage job, because they lost their drivers license, after a minor fine they couldn't pay aggregated [with fines and charges also added by for profit companies] into thousands of dollars, and they're out of luck too.
There are people who want to work, but they're single mothers without dependable child care: out of luck.
Keep believing that everyone who is poor is stupid and lazy and just "doesn't wanna", because nothing will convince you otherwise, it seems.
Those who want to address the real problems understand that the first step is in searching for the root causes, not bewailing the symptoms. Or dismissing the victims with the trite "there will always be have nots". Like we didn't know that.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Here's another one of those isolated incidents. Well, several of them.

Dood carrying a BB rifle is walking down the street listening to music through earbuds. Officers come up from behind and scream at him to drop the weapon. He doesn't, they fire, hitting him in the back, killing him. Officers said there was nothing preventing the dead guy from hearing the command to drop the weapon, nothing in his ears or anything like that. A photograph at the time of the incident clearly shows earbuds in his ears. The earbuds were later found in the dead guy's pocket. The officer feared for his life, of course. The cop was given an award for bravery for the incident, while the incident was still being investigated.

"In South Florida’s Broward County, no officer has been charged in a fatal on-duty police shooting since 1980, a period that covers 168 shooting deaths."

“When you look at the fact that every single person ever shot in Broward County by a cop deserved it, that’s stunning.”

“There is no thin blue line here,” Sheriff Israel said. “We turn out honest and forthright investigations.”

After you read the article at that link, or even if you run from the above link and pretend it's not there, this is an important read.
 

golfournut

Veteran Expediter
You did not reply to a single point I made - just parroted more of what the right wing media tells you is happening, illustrated with anecdotes. Impressive: not at all.
There are people who have graduated from high school, and from college too, and had a decent job, until it got yanked out from under them, courtesy of one or more of the factors I listed. And when they looked for work to replace it, they found the environment has changed since they last had to job search, and they are out of luck. It's pretty much low wages or no wages, take your pick.
There are people who wanted to get more education, and signed on with a for profit "college" that took their money [from student loans they will have to repay, no matter what] and then shut the school down. They're out of luck too, because the government can't stop the scammers from doing it again, under a different name.
There are people who can't even get a minimum wage job, because they lost their drivers license, after a minor fine they couldn't pay aggregated [with fines and charges also added by for profit companies] into thousands of dollars, and they're out of luck too.
There are people who want to work, but they're single mothers without dependable child care: out of luck.
Keep believing that everyone who is poor is stupid and lazy and just "doesn't wanna", because nothing will convince you otherwise, it seems.
Those who want to address the real problems understand that the first step is in searching for the root causes, not bewailing the symptoms. Or dismissing the victims with the trite "there will always be have nots". Like we didn't know that.

I did not respond to your crap because while your lips are moving only butter flows.
Out of all these things that you mention, whose fault is it? Whose responsible for cleaning up the mess?
NOT ME! NOT the government! I don't see it anywhere in the Constitution or Bill of Rights that says I have to adopt you and pay for your screw ups or misfortunes. It's the entitlement mentality of you liberals that have this country screwed up. YOU got yourself in that predicament, YOU live with it and fix it.
Take RESPONSIBILITY for your own crap.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Do you know the difference between crap and butter? I sure hope so.

In any event, let's try and stick to the issues without insulting each other.

On a side note... Have you ever seen 'Last Tango in Paris"?
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
". . . WI and MI - both blue states and long dominated by unions - have recently had right to work laws rammed up the publics backside by tea partiers during a lame duck session."

Fixed it.

What was "fixed" was a corrupt system that forced workers to submit to unions and pay dues against their will. Now they have the freedom to choose, and maybe states like MI, WI and IN can be more competitive for new manufacturing businesses. There are sound economic reasons that union membership has been in steady decline and businesses like auto manufacturers and their suppliers - Boeing is another good example - are moving to right to work states.
 

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
What was "fixed" was a corrupt system that forced workers to submit to unions and pay dues against their will. Now they have the freedom to choose, and maybe states like MI, WI and IN can be more competitive for new manufacturing businesses. There are sound economic reasons that union membership has been in steady decline and businesses like auto manufacturers and their suppliers - Boeing is another good example - are moving to right to work states.
While I agree with the right to work laws in theory, it was the way it was done in Michigan.
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
While I agree with the right to work laws in theory, it was the way it was done in Michigan.
I see your point in Michigan's case, but considering the Democrat mismanagement of the state in general and Detroit in particular during the past decades this legislative maneuver doesn't seem too bad.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
I did not respond to your crap because while your lips are moving only butter flows.
Out of all these things that you mention, whose fault is it? Whose responsible for cleaning up the mess?
NOT ME! NOT the government! I don't see it anywhere in the Constitution or Bill of Rights that says I have to adopt you and pay for your screw ups or misfortunes. It's the entitlement mentality of you liberals that have this country screwed up. YOU got yourself in that predicament, YOU live with it and fix it.
Take RESPONSIBILITY for your own crap.

That whole Marie Antoinette "let them eat cake" response to people who have been stomped on is not going to suffice forever - just saying.
And I'd like to remind you that you're shouting [and mansplaining] to someone who works for a living, and has since age 14. i haven't asked you [or anyone] to get me out of anything I screwed up.Ever.
Still, you ignored the whole list of ways I posted that demonstrate why people can't find jobs, or pay for bills and food, and your response is classic: blame the victims.
An intelligent rebuttal would indicate why the things I listed didn't happen, or don't add up to a transfer of wealth in an upward direction, with the consequent hardship to those beneath.
Instead, mansplaining and shouting, repeating the sound bytes that simply defy reason. But hey, you've got statistics that prove more people are collecting benefits, so what other reason could there be?
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
What was "fixed" was a corrupt system that forced workers to submit to unions and pay dues against their will. Now they have the freedom to choose, and maybe states like MI, WI and IN can be more competitive for new manufacturing businesses. There are sound economic reasons that union membership has been in steady decline and businesses like auto manufacturers and their suppliers - Boeing is another good example - are moving to right to work states.

There are reasons why union membership has declined, but the economic benefit is entirely one sided. And most of the reasons have the Koch Bros fingerprints all over them.
There were sound reasons for the unions to be created, and I suppose those reasons [pay, benefits, safety, and fair treatment] no longer exist? Without unions, management will not be going back to the days when they did pretty much whatever they pleased, paid as little as possible, cut corners on safety to increase profits? Said "If you don't like it, there's the door" to anyone who complained?
Sure, that'll happen. <snort>
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Without unions, management will not be going back to the days when they did pretty much whatever they pleased, paid as little as possible, cut corners on safety to increase profits?
No, they won't. There are too many non-union shops in right to work states that prove they won't, not to mention the various and sundry laws and regulations that prevent management from "doing as they please" about most everything.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
If they haven't already, [and I find it hard to believe, in today's environment], they will, eventually. People in positions of power dislike being told "You can't", by anyone, [regulations suck!] but most especially by those who are subordinate to them.
About those laws and regulations: if the conservative Republicans get their way, many of them [laws and regs] will be history. They already want to undo many of the regs that prevent Wall Street from a repeat performance of the bailout scenario, because: more better profit is good, regulations is bad.
Well, except when it's about women who want to engage in what is euphemistically called "family planning" - then, regulations are needed, lots of them. Because women can't be trusted to make adult decisions all by their little old selves. :rolleyes:
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Writer Heather MacDonald hits the nail on the head with the following article, and explains the causes of the increase in crime in Baltimore and other cities. [Emphasis added]
Article below:

The New Nationwide Crime Wave

ED-AT691_HMACDO_P_20150528181400.jpg


By
Heather Mac Donald

May 29, 2015 6:27 p.m. ET
The nation’s two-decades-long crime decline may be over. Gun violence in particular is spiraling upward in cities across America. In Baltimore, the most pressing question every morning is how many people were shot the previous night. Gun violence is up more than 60% compared with this time last year, according to Baltimore police, with 32 shootings over Memorial Day weekend. May has been the most violent month the city has seen in 15 years.

In Milwaukee, homicides were up 180% by May 17 over the same period the previous year. Through April, shootings in St. Louis were up 39%, robberies 43%, and homicides 25%. “Crime is the worst I’ve ever seen it,” said St. Louis Alderman Joe Vacarro at a May 7 City Hall hearing.

Murders in Atlanta were up 32% as of mid-May. Shootings in Chicago had increased 24% and homicides 17%. Shootings and other violent felonies in Los Angeles had spiked by 25%; in New York, murder was up nearly 13%, and gun violence 7%.

Those citywide statistics from law-enforcement officials mask even more startling neighborhood-level increases. Shooting incidents are up 500% in an East Harlem precinct compared with last year; in a South Central Los Angeles police division, shooting victims are up 100%.

By contrast, the first six months of 2014 continued a 20 YEAR PATTERN OF GROWING PUBLIC SAFETY. Violent crime in the first half of last year dropped 4.6% nationally and property crime was down 7.5%. Though comparable national figures for the first half of 2015 won’t be available for another year, the January through June 2014 crime decline is unlikely to be repeated.

The most plausible explanation of the current surge in lawlessness is the intense agitation against American police departments over the past nine months.

Since last summer, the airwaves have been dominated by suggestions that the police are the biggest threat facing young black males today. A handful of highly publicized deaths of unarmed black men, often following a resisted arrest—including Eric Garner in Staten Island, N.Y., in July 2014,Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo., in August 2014 andFreddie Gray in Baltimore last month—have led to riots, violent protests and attacks on the police. Murders of officers jumped 89% in 2014, to 51 from 27.

President Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder, before he stepped down last month, embraced the conceit that law enforcement in black communities is infected by bias. The news media pump out a seemingly constant stream of stories about alleged police mistreatment of blacks, with the reports often buttressed by cellphone videos that rarely capture the behavior that caused an officer to use force.

Almost any police shooting of a black person, no matter how threatening the behavior that provoked the shooting, now provokes angry protests, like those that followed the death ofVonderrit Myers in St. Louis last October. The 18-year-old Myers, awaiting trial on gun and resisting-arrest charges, had fired three shots at an officer at close range. Arrests in black communities are even more fraught than usual, with hostile, jeering crowds pressing in on officers and spreading lies about the encounter.

Acquittals of police officers for the use of deadly force against black suspects are now automatically presented as a miscarriage of justice. Proposals aimed at producing more cop convictions abound, but New York state seems especially enthusiastic about the idea.

The state’s attorney general,Eric Schneiderman, wants to create a special state prosecutor dedicated solely to prosecuting cops who use lethal force. New York Gov.Andrew Cuomo would appoint an independent monitor whenever a grand jury fails to indict an officer for homicide and there are “doubts” about the fairness of the proceeding (read: in every instance of a non-indictment); the governor could then turn over the case to a special prosecutor for a second grand jury proceeding.

This incessant drumbeat against the police has resulted in what St. Louis police chiefSam Dotson last November called the “Ferguson effect.” Cops are disengaging from discretionary enforcement activity and the “CRIMINAL ELEMENT IS FEELING EMPOWERED",Mr. Dotson reported. Arrests in St. Louis city and county by that point had dropped a third since the shooting of Michael Brown in August. Not surprisingly, homicides in the city surged 47% by early November and robberies in the county were up 82%.

Similar “Ferguson effects” are happening across the country as OFFICERS SCALE BACK ON PROACTIVE POLICING UNDER THE ONSLAUGHT OF ANTI-COP RHETORIC . Arrests in Baltimore were down 56% in May compared with 2014.

“Any cop who uses his gun now has to worry about being indicted and losing his job and family,” a New York City officer tells me. “Everything has the potential to be recorded. A lot of cops feel that the climate for the next couple of years is going to be nonstop protests.”

Police officers now second-guess themselves about the use of force. “Officers are trying to invent techniques on the spot for taking down resistant suspects that don’t look as bad as the techniques taught in the academy,” says Jim Dudley,who recently retired as deputy police chief in San Francisco. Officers complain that civilians don’t understand how hard it is to control someone resisting arrest.

A New York City cop tells me that he was amazed to hear people scoffing that Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson,who killed Michael Brown, only looked a “little red” after Brown assaulted him and tried to grab his weapon: “Does an officer need to be unconscious before he can use force? If someone is willing to fight you, he’s also willing to take your gun and shoot you. You can’t lose a fight with a guy who has already put his hands on you because if you do, you will likely end up dead.”

Milwaukee Police Chief Edward A. Flynn, discussing hostility toward the police, told me in an interview on Friday: “I’ve never seen anything like it. I’m guessing it will take five years to recover.”

Even if officer morale were to miraculously rebound, POLICIES ARE BEING PUT INTO PLACE THAT WILL MAKE IT HARDER TO KEEP CRIME DOWN IN THE FUTURE. Those initiatives reflect the belief that any criminal-justice action that has a disparate impact on blacks is racially motivated.

In New York, pedestrian stops—when the police question and sometimes frisk individuals engaged in suspicious behavior—have DROPPED NEARLY 95% from their 2011 high, thanks to litigation charging that the NYPD’s stop, question and frisk practices were racially biased. A judge agreed, and New York Mayor Bill de Blasio, upon taking office last year, did too, embracing the resulting judicial monitoring of the police department. It is no surprise that SHOOTINGS ARE UP IN THE CITY.

Politicians and activists in New York and other cities have now taken aim at “broken windows” policing. This police strategy has shown remarkable success over the past two decades by targeting low-level public-order offenses, reducing the air of lawlessness in rough neighborhoods and getting criminals off the streets before they commit bigger crimes. Opponents of broken-windows policing somehow fail to notice that LAW ABIDING RESIDENCE of poor communities are among the STRONGEST ADVOCATES for enforcing laws against public drinking, trespassing, drug sales and drug use, among other public-order laws.

As attorney general, Eric Holder pressed the cause of ending “mass incarceration” on racial grounds; elected officials across the political spectrum have jumped on board. A 2014 California voter initiative has retroactively downgraded a range of property and drug felonies to misdemeanors, including forcible theft of guns, purses and laptops. More than 3,000 felons have already been released from California prisons, according to the Association of Deputy District Attorneys in Los Angeles County. Burglary, larceny and car theft have SURGED in the county, the association reports.

"THERE ARE NO REAL CONSEQUENCES FOR COMMITTING PROPERTY CRIMES ANYMORE", Los Angeles Police Lt. Armando Munoz told Downtown News earlier this month, “and the CRIMINALS KNOW THIS.” The Milwaukee district attorney,John Chisholm, is DIVERTING many property and drug criminals to rehabilitation programs to reduce the number of blacks in Wisconsin prisons; critics see the rise in Milwaukee crime as one result.

If these decriminalization and deincarceration policies backfire, the people most harmed will be their supposed beneficiaries: BLACKS, since they are disproportionately VICTIMIZED BY CRIME. The black death-by-homicide rate is six times higher than that of whites and Hispanics combined. The killers of those black homicide victims are overwhelmingly other black civilians, NOT THE POLICE. The police could end all use of lethal force tomorrow and it would have at most a negligible impact on the black death rate. In any case, the strongest predictor of whether a police officer uses force is whether a suspect RESISTS ARREST, NOT the suspect’s RACE.

Contrary to the claims of the “black lives matter” movement, NO GOVERNMENT POLICY IN A QUARTER CENTURY HAS DONE MORE FOR URBAN RECLAMATION THAN PROACTIVE POLICING. Data-driven enforcement, in conjunction with stricter penalties for criminals and “broken windows” policing, has SAVED THOUSANDS OF BLACK LIVES, brought lawful commerce and jobs to once drug-infested neighborhoods and allowed millions to go about their daily lives without fear.

To be sure, police officers need to treat everyone they encounter with courtesy and respect. Any fatal police shooting of an innocent person is a horrifying tragedy that police training must work incessantly to prevent. But unless the DEMONIZATION OF LAW ENFORCEMENT ends, the liberating gains in urban safety over the past 20 years will be lost.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-new-nationwide-crime-wave-1432938425
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
If you're a hard core conservative who thinks the police are virtually infallible, rarely if ever engage in behavior that could result in anti-police backlash, and all of the problems with the rise in crime rates in certain cities are totally the fault of mostly black people, then yeah, she hit the nail on the head. She's a hard core conservative who advocates for racial profiling, high incarceration rates, more forceful policing, and thinks the Patriot Act is weak and ineffective and should be strengthened twofold. She wrote in her book Are Cops Racist? that cops are not racist at all and they never have been, that the criminal justice system is color blind and in no way discriminates against blacks, that blacks are by nature an underclass (so are Hispanics, BTW), and blacks are arrested for committing more crimes because blacks by their very nature are criminal (Muslims are also, by their very nature, terrorists). The percentage numbers for the cities she highlights as examples of exploding crime rates are highly selective, and just so happen to also be cities in which the police are known for biased policing and systemic abuse, so it shouldn't come as much of a shock that "The most plausible explanation of the current surge in lawlessness is the intense agitation against American police departments over the past nine months." It's called backlash.
 
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