More Change you can believe in......

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
or just one more freedom or liberty being taken away...

Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage

Health overhaul in Senate bill imposes penalty on those refusing affordable medical coverage

By Ricardo Alonso-Zaldivar, Associated Press Writer
Thursday July 2, 2009, 6:17 pm EDT
Senate bill fines people refusing health coverage - Yahoo! Finance

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Americans who refuse to buy affordable medical coverage could be hit with fines of more than $1,000 under a health care overhaul bill unveiled Thursday by key Senate Democrats looking to fulfill President Barack Obama's top domestic priority.

The Congressional Budget Office estimated the fines will raise around $36 billion over 10 years. Senate aides said the penalties would be modeled on the approach taken by Massachusetts, which now imposes a fine of about $1,000 a year on individuals who refuse to get coverage. Under the federal legislation, families would pay higher penalties than individuals.

In a revamped health care system envisioned by lawmakers, people would be required to carry health insurance just like motorists must get auto coverage now. The government would provide subsidies for the poor and many middle-class families, but those who still refuse to sign up would face penalties.

Called "shared responsibility payments," the fines would be set at least half the cost of basic medical coverage, according to the legislation.

In 2008, employer-provided coverage averaged $12,680 a year for a family plan, and $4,704 for individual coverage, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation's annual survey. Senate aides, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly, said the cost of the federal plan would be lower but declined to provide specifics.

The legislation would exempt certain hardship cases from fines. The fines would be collected through the income tax system.

The new proposals were released as Congress neared the end of a weeklong July 4 break, with lawmakers expected to quickly take up health care legislation when they return to Washington. With deepening divisions along partisan and ideological lines, the complex legislation faces an uncertain future.

Obama wants a bill this year that would provide coverage to the nearly 50 million Americans who lack it and reduce medical costs.

In a statement, Obama welcomed the legislation, saying it "reflects many of the principles I've laid out, such as reforms that will prohibit insurance companies from refusing coverage for people with pre-existing conditions and the concept of insurance exchanges where individuals can find affordable coverage if they lose their jobs, move or get sick."

The Senate Health Education, Labor and Pensions bill also calls for a government-run insurance option to compete with private plans as well as a $750-per-worker annual fee on larger companies that do not offer coverage to employees.

Sens. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass., and Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., said in a letter to colleagues that their revised plan would cost dramatically less than an earlier, incomplete proposal, and help show the way toward coverage for 97 percent of all Americans.

In a conference call with reporters, Dodd said the revised bill had brought "historic reform of health care" closer. He said the bill's public option will bring coverage and benefit decisions driven "not by what generates the biggest profits, but by what works best for American families."

The two senators said the Congressional Budget Office put the cost of the proposal at $611.4 billion over 10 years, down from $1 trillion two weeks ago.

However, the total cost of legislation will rise considerably once provisions are added to subsidize health insurance for the poor through Medicaid. Those additions, needed to ensure coverage for nearly all U.S. residents, are being handled by a separate panel, the Senate Finance Committee. Bipartisan talks on the Finance panel aim to hold the overall price tag to $1 trillion.

The Health Committee could complete its portion of the bill as soon as next week, and the presence of a government health insurance option virtually assures a party-line vote.

In the Senate, the Finance Committee version of the bill is unlikely to include a government-run insurance option. Bipartisan negotiations are centered on a proposal for a nonprofit insurance cooperative as a competitor to private companies.

Three committees are collaborating in the House on legislation expected to come to a vote by the end of July. That measure is certain to include a government-run insurance option.

At their heart, all the bills would require insurance companies to sell coverage to any applicant, without charging higher premiums for pre-existing medical conditions. The poor and some middle-class families would qualify for government subsidies to help with the cost of coverage. The government's costs would be covered by a combination of higher taxes and cuts in projected Medicare and Medicaid spending.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Don't worry. It's ok. Our liberal friends will be along shortly to tell us how this is a good thing and better for all of us in the long run.
 

Poorboy

Expert Expediter
Did anyone see the Interview of Some of the Canadians who were Stuck with Canada's Health Plan? Kinda Scary That the Same Thing Is Gonna Be Rammed Down Our Throats By Barry and Company! Obumma Needs To Go, And the Sooner the Better as well as Pelosi and Her Little Band of Miscreants!! :mad:
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
After spending a few hours with Iraqis who are returning to their homeland, I am starting to think that they have more freedoms than we are going to have in the near future.

It surely seems they are starting to feel sorry for us and one thing is sure of what I read today is that Obama is not getting a bit of credit for anything to do with their country.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Did anyone see the Interview of Some of the Canadians who were Stuck with Canada's Health Plan? Kinda Scary That the Same Thing Is Gonna Be Rammed Down Our Throats By Barry and Company! Obumma Needs To Go, And the Sooner the Better as well as Pelosi and Her Little Band of Miscreants!! :mad:

Those Canadians are either stupid or it was a setup interview...NO Canadian is stuck with the system...One can pay their own private coverage at any time. Nothing is rammed down their throats unless they themselves open wide on their own.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Those Canadians are either stupid or it was a setup interview...NO Canadian is stuck with the system...One can pay their own private coverage at any time. Nothing is rammed down their throats unless they themselves open wide on their own.

OK I agree no one is 'stuck' but what if you can't afford private coverage or what about 20 years ago?

Does the Canadian system allow bartering between the doctor, hospital and patient like our system?

See OVM the point is not Canadian system is bad, it is limiting because of the cost involved. The UK system is the same and France, well France is a mess. Germany has the closest thing to our system but then people pay both through higher taxes and up front.

We have the best system in the world, no one is ever turned back from emergency care or have to worry about how to get medication if they apply themselves but the problems are not simply fixed with government involvement. Problems range from Fraud to Insurance Mandates to a lack of competition within the system to high insurance rates for the doctors and organizations that actually do the work. Obama from all I read wants to mandate more procedures for some issues but cut others in other areas, build a system that easily can be taken advantage of, build up government style adjudication boards and produce less competition within the system. They have been trying to get a system in that is modeled after Medicare/Medicaid and that is an utter failure.

Never forget OVM the only reason that they want this to happen is to remain in power, to empower the bureaucracy, to control more and to make sure their power base is ever expanded. The reason we have had so many social programs in the 60's happen is we had real surpluses of money thanks to the tax code changes in 1964 - everything could not happen without that. But now we are on the edge of falling off the edge of the world with an economy that is so weak and losses in manufacturing and hard assets in the country which any large program will fail within a few years. With the combined failure of Medicare/Medicaid and a new health care program, our country will be dragged to third world status so fast people would not know what to do.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Greg..I agree this country can not afford a "FREE" healthcare system....Like you said Medicare and Medicaid is a mess now...If the gov can't administer a partial plan how do they expect to handle the whole country?

I think however IF and they are...wanting to institute some kind of plan the geared to income...maybe tax credits according to income would be the way to go...It would help the lower income people and achieve some goals this admin seems to want to do.

Does the Canadian system allow bartering between the doctor, hospital and patient like our system?
No but you can opt out for a private clinic and the province will pay up to the approved rate.
 
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chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
The fact is any system that the government gets into will sooner then later force the private insurers out of business and you will have a single payer system that is run by the government, and those that pay no income tax (almost 40% of americans) will be getting their healthcare at the expense of those that pay taxes....just another way of "spreading the wealth around....barry thinks he is robinhood, steal from those that have and give to those that don't have...its the only fair thing to do.. and it is B/S....
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
The fact is any system that the government gets into will sooner then later force the private insurers out of business and you will have a single payer system that is run by the government, and those that pay no income tax (almost 40% of americans) will be getting their healthcare at the expense of those that pay taxes....just another way of "spreading the wealth around....barry thinks he is robinhood, steal from those that have and give to those that don't have...its the only fair thing to do.. and it is B/S....

The wife and i were just now discussing that aspect...In all this legislation there is no mention of the insurance providers except what the government wants them to do....They aren't going to like this intrusion and some may pullout of health insurance because of it leaving lesser options...And the like you say the gov would get its wish of a total takeover of the healthcare system...and that would be bad.
 

hondaking38

Veteran Expediter
lets face it..the american health system is a joke...most advanced medical system in the world...but most 3rd world countries have healthier populations.......Personally i havent been to a Doctor in at least 20 years..i dont need for them to put me on 20 different types of pills
that counteract each other..we are a pill nation.....Take a pill it will make everything ok....what happened to 2000 year old remedies. such as herbs??? They arnt manufactured so they cant be controlled. and sold at super inflated prices....Bottom line is there not profitable.....now some will say. What you havent been to a Dr and took there great advice and arnt on lipitor,and at least another dozen meds to counter the effects of the med you took?? nope sure havent...i take herbs, liquid vitamins, etc etc...and feel great......last PT score was 270, still running the 2 miles in 14:53....now on july 24th i get my deployment physical..and hopefully pass.....and if not.. then i still wont be on the pill system...and if they do wanna put me on some type of meds, FLUSH goes the toilet..
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
lets face it..the american health system is a joke...most advanced medical system in the world...but most 3rd world countries have healthier populations.......Personally i havent been to a Doctor in at least 20 years..i dont need for them to put me on 20 different types of pills
that counteract each other..we are a pill nation.....Take a pill it will make everything ok....what happened to 2000 year old remedies. such as herbs??? They arnt manufactured so they cant be controlled. and sold at super inflated prices....Bottom line is there not profitable.....now some will say. What you havent been to a Dr and took there great advice and arnt on lipitor,and at least another dozen meds to counter the effects of the med you took?? nope sure havent...i take herbs, liquid vitamins, etc etc...and feel great......last PT score was 270, still running the 2 miles in 14:53....now on july 24th i get my deployment physical..and hopefully pass.....and if not.. then i still wont be on the pill system...and if they do wanna put me on some type of meds, FLUSH goes the toilet..

Boy you got that right..since I moved down here..I've never been exposed to sooo many "pills"...instead of treating me, they prescribe a "pill"....
 
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