Mi. Bar owners fight back!

[OntarioVanMan]

December 17, 2010

The protect Private Property Rights in Michigan movement has been requested to release the following statement on behalf of thousands of Michigan bar owners across the State:

December 31, 2010 will be a statewide protest against the Ron Davis law.

To show solidarity with their fellow business owners, Michigan bar owners will be permitting the use of tobacco products inside their private property on New Years Eve.


This protest is in direct response to the following:

-The closing of bars and restaurants across the state due to the ban. Closings that were promised would not occur.
-The loss of jobs due to the ban. Job losses that were promised would not occur.
-County and district health departments that are conducting themselves as autonomous, rogue governmental agencies.
-The intimidation tactics that MANY county and district health departments are utilizing to enforce this unconstitutional ban.
-The state's requirement that small business owners work on behalf of the state without compensation. Through the FORCING of business owners to police this ban, by law, under threat of state retaliation.
-Sending a message to the pro-ban lobby: "If it is not your business, its not YOUR business".


What will occur:

-Tobacco use will be permitted after 9pm December 31, 2010 until closing. (Once minors have vacated).
-Business owners will be posting PRIVATE PROPERTY signs on their doors or informing patrons of the property's status as private, prior to entry.
-Business owners will be posting SMOKING PERMITTED signs to enable patrons to make informed decisions.


Business owners have pledged to remain united and support one another.

"Any county, district or state action taken upon one, will be an attack on all, from this day forward".

Any and all action taken by counties or the state will be met by a new unified and unwavering opposition. No expense will be spared in fighting any action through the courts.

The State of Michigan has forced the hand of Michigan small business owners. Business owners have indicated their intention to take back control of their businesses.
on Friday · Report
about a week ago

 

[Benzoid]

Darn! I have been saving tons of money by not going to bars here. I guess on new years eve I will have to go to bar

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Was the smoking ban ever voted on by the people of Michigan?

 

[Poorboy]

December 17, 2010

The protect Private Property Rights in Michigan movement has been requested to release the following statement on behalf of thousands of Michigan bar owners across the State:

December 31, 2010 will be a statewide protest against the Ron Davis law.

To show solidarity with their fellow business owners, Michigan bar owners will be permitting the use of tobacco products inside their private property on New Years Eve.


This protest is in direct response to the following:

-The closing of bars and restaurants across the state due to the ban. Closings that were promised would not occur.
-The loss of jobs due to the ban. Job losses that were promised would not occur.
-County and district health departments that are conducting themselves as autonomous, rogue governmental agencies.
-The intimidation tactics that MANY county and district health departments are utilizing to enforce this unconstitutional ban.
-The state's requirement that small business owners work on behalf of the state without compensation. Through the FORCING of business owners to police this ban, by law, under threat of state retaliation.
-Sending a message to the pro-ban lobby: "If it is not your business, its not YOUR business".


What will occur:

-Tobacco use will be permitted after 9pm December 31, 2010 until closing. (Once minors have vacated).
-Business owners will be posting PRIVATE PROPERTY signs on their doors or informing patrons of the property's status as private, prior to entry.
-Business owners will be posting SMOKING PERMITTED signs to enable patrons to make informed decisions.


Business owners have pledged to remain united and support one another.

"Any county, district or state action taken upon one, will be an attack on all, from this day forward".

Any and all action taken by counties or the state will be met by a new unified and unwavering opposition. No expense will be spared in fighting any action through the courts.

The State of Michigan has forced the hand of Michigan small business owners. Business owners have indicated their intention to take back control of their businesses.
on Friday · Report
about a week ago

We have a similar problem here in Ohio, where they swore up and down that the smoking ban wouldn't cause the loss of businesses and jobs because the "Non Smokers" would support them by going to these places because of the No Smoking policy! Well, That was total B.S.because there have been many businesses who are Now out of business and Other businesses that managed to survive with a loss of revenue.
Then we have the Bars that ignore the smoking ban altogether.
I don't believe that when approached by the smoking police,that you have to tell this clown anything or show any Identification as they are not leos. They will tell you that you have to cooperate, but there's nothing they can do if you decide to just up and leave without saying anything more to them.. I did that in August and nothing was done about it.
Should the time occour that I would want to stop in a bar for any reason(Like back in August) I will only go into the bars that "don't" enforce the no smoking ban, but that doesn't happen too many times as I really only drink about 12 beers a year anyway.

 

[layoutshooter]

My niece and her boyfriend own a bar. They tell me they have seen no loss of business due to the smoking ban. He told me his biggest loss is no more factory workers coming in after a night shift for shots and beers. No, the People of Michigan did not vote directly for this. It went through the State legislature.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

My niece and her boyfriend own a bar. They tell me they have seen no loss of business due to the smoking ban. He told me his biggest loss is no more factory workers coming in after a night shift for shots and beers. No, the People of Michigan did not vote directly for this. It went through the State legislature.

And the pro-smoking lobby never challenged it? didn't they try to get up a petition..as in required signatures to have it put on the ballot?

make up my mind..on one hand you say they did not lose business and then you say they lost night business...gee whiz Joe..*lol*

 

[Slo-Ride]

My local watering hole is on the brink of closing and bar owner states its due to smoking ban and ppl not working,the ones that are working are spending elsewhere to survive this economy..He isn't blaming it just on the smoking ban but he says its a huge part of it.He also says in the past when times are hard his business is usually good because ppl tend to spend their last dollar in a bar.
I'm more then respectfully toward non smokers but I hope this works..It should not be hard to create a smoke free area in a building..Its as simple as installing the right air exchangers in a certain spot with-in the building I believe.

 

[Poorboy]

My local watering hole is on the brink of closing and bar owner states its due to smoking ban and ppl not working,the ones that are working are spending elsewhere to survive this economy..He isn't blaming it just on the smoking ban but he says its a huge part of it.He also says in the past when times are hard his business is usually good because ppl tend to spend their last dollar in a bar.
I'm more then respectfully toward non smokers but I hope this works..It should not be hard to create a smoke free area in a building..Its as simple as installing the right air exchangers in a certain spot with-in the building I believe.

We tried that here in Ohio and it seemed to work for quite a while until the pleasure police stuck their noses in it. And when the smoking ban took effect the smoking rooms were dismantled and the big loss of buying the equipment and the remodeling went to the restuarants and bars.
I only smoke every now and then and the not smoking in a restuarant while i eat my meal doesn't bother me, but I feel that if I want to spark one up after dinner with my coffee I should be able to go to the smoking room as not to offend the non-smokers and do as I please. Also the bars that would allow smoking should be required to post smoking signs by the entrance(s) so the Non smokers could then make their choice as to weather or not they want to go inside!

 

[layoutshooter]

And the pro-smoking lobby never challenged it? didn't they try to get up a petition..as in required signatures to have it put on the ballot?

make up my mind..on one hand you say they did not lose business and then you say they lost night business...gee whiz Joe..*lol*

They lost MORNING business due to factory shut downs. They saw no loss to the smoking ban, or at least anything that could point to it.

I don't know what pro-smokers are doing. If it is being challenged or not. I don't know if it will show up on the next ballot or not. I am just not home enough to follow it that closely.

All I know is what my niece and boyfriend tell me about their bar. Nothing more. They say that business is slightly off from same time last year and that the area that is down the most is morning business. That's all I know.

 

[EnglishLady]

Smoking in public bans have been in place in the UK for sometime now.

The undoubted fact is that the ban has caused a lot of businessess to close.

Our Off Licences (liquor stores) had all but closed in the town I lived in due to the fact people would stock up from a supermarket.
Pubs were closing all around the Uk, in our town not only were they closing down but some tried a 3-4 day a week opening.

Workplaces spent thousands installing separate rooms with the venting systems, only to have those rooms now standing idle or being used as store rooms.

In the UK we have "smoke police". These very "special" people come along and check on businessess to make sure everything to do with the smoking ban, is being adhered to

 

[layoutshooter]

I would go out of my way to AVOID any place that allowed smoking. I cannot stand the STINK on my clothes, it ruins the taste of my food and Mrs. Layoutshooter will have problem breathing. We are FAR more likely to go out if it is a non-smoking place. There should be a fair bit of "offset" with non-smokers being more willing to go out now that they will not be subjected to the smoke. Enough to make up the difference? Don't know.

 

[dabluzman1]

My niece and her boyfriend own a bar. They tell me they have seen no loss of business due to the smoking ban. He told me his biggest loss is no more factory workers coming in after a night shift for shots and beers. No, the People of Michigan did not vote directly for this. It went through the State legislature.

A couple of years ago we had a spirited debate on this topic when Ohio voted to be non smoking in public venues.
The difference here is the courts decided not the general public via vote. ( If reported correctly here by others ).
I still favor non smoking and back the Ohio decision as was voted by the majority of Ohioans.
I disagree with Michigans decision to bypass the general election in this instance, even though I believe in the non smoking in public issue.

 

[dabluzman1]

We tried that here in Ohio and it seemed to work for quite a while until the pleasure police stuck their noses in it. And when the smoking ban took effect the smoking rooms were dismantled and the big loss of buying the equipment and the remodeling went to the restuarants and bars.
I only smoke every now and then and the not smoking in a restuarant while i eat my meal doesn't bother me, but I feel that if I want to spark one up after dinner with my coffee I should be able to go to the smoking room as not to offend the non-smokers and do as I please. Also the bars that would allow smoking should be required to post smoking signs by the entrance(s) so the Non smokers could then make their choice as to weather or not they want to go inside!

There are prox. 310 mil people in the USA.
73% over the age of 20 (226+ mil)
Aprox 48 mil smoke.
You are on the short side of the general public.
I know I know we have to watch out for the minoritys
rights.
But, this is a matter of public health and well being.
No-one is telling you to quit smoking, just not in public.
Get yer coffee to go, enjoy it and a smoke at home.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

A couple of years ago we had a spirited debate on this topic when Ohio voted to be non smoking in public venues.
The difference here is the courts decided not the general public via vote. ( If reported correctly here by others ).
I still favor non smoking and back the Ohio decision as was voted by the majority of Ohioans.
I disagree with Michigans decision to bypass the general election in this instance, even though I believe in the non smoking in public issue.

In S. Dakota they first legislated it in..and a petition was passed around and got the required signatures to put it on the last ballot...the people spoke at the polls and no smoking is the law...something like 66% in favour of the ban...

 

[Poorboy]

There are prox. 310 mil people in the USA.
73% over the age of 20 (226+ mil)
Aprox 48 mil smoke.
You are on the short side of the general public.
I know I know we have to watch out for the minoritys
rights.
But, this is a matter of public health and well being.
No-one is telling you to quit smoking, just not in public.
Get yer coffee to go, enjoy it and a smoke at home.

I don't believe that I said anything about "Rights" did I?

 

[xiggi]

There are prox. 310 mil people in the USA.
73% over the age of 20 (226+ mil)
Aprox 48 mil smoke.
You are on the short side of the general public.
I know I know we have to watch out for the minoritys
rights.
But, this is a matter of public health and well being.
No-one is telling you to quit smoking, just not in public.
Get yer coffee to go, enjoy it and a smoke at home.

It is a matter of personal choice and business owners deciding what is best for their business. If you do not like smoke go to places that do not allow it. Smokers can frequent places that do allow it. Biz owners should not be dictated to on something like smoking on their premises it should be their and and the money that decides.

 

[dabluzman1]

It is a matter of personal choice and business owners deciding what is best for their business. If you do not like smoke go to places that do not allow it. Smokers can frequent places that do allow it. Biz owners should not be dictated to on something like smoking on their premises it should be their and and the money that decides.

Well, now you can either go someplace AND NOT SMOKE or dont go at all.
Sounds like a plan to me.

 

[xiggi]

Well, now you can either go someplace AND NOT SMOKE or dont go at all.
Sounds like a plan to me.

Actually I do not smoke in restaurants by choice but I also think it should be the business owners choice. How anyone can argue that because they do not like smoke everywhere they want to eat should be smoke free is beyond me. No one is forcing them to walk in the door.

I can't stand the smell of coffee and the caffeine is bad for people, let's outlaw it in restaurants, sounds kinda stupid doesn't it

 

[jaminjim]

Around here it's the small neighborhood bars that are having the problem. The few that I know of say their revenue is down well over 50%. Personally I think it should be the owner of the establishment that makes the choice. I can totally understand not allowing people to smoke in a office or even a restaurant. But businesses that are small should be allowed to make the choice.

If you remember the Ohio law even includes driving a company vehicle.

 

[Slo-Ride]

I'm a smoker,,I try to be very respectful to wards ppl around me as far as non smokers go.
I think no matter how big or small a business is,It should be left up to the Property Owner to make these decisions.
Kinda like its My house and Ill do D*** Well as I please.
If I cater to smokers,,so be it.. Cater to Non-Smokers same thing. Any smart business will try to find a way to cater to both.Where and when has anyone gotten the right to tell me what to do with my property.
Would be interesting to know how much enforcing the No-Smoking laws are costing the taxpayers. Laws like these we dont need,,courtesy and respect we need more of.