Libby, posible pardon?
- Thread starter greg334
- Start date
It really dosn't matter if I am a Clinton or Bush fan. Libby is lucky he wasn't found guilty of treason.
Libby was the one on trial. He is the one found guilty. If anyone else was involved in the leaking sensitive info, they should be put one trial also.
Road Hooligan
Libby was the one on trial. He is the one found guilty. If anyone else was involved in the leaking sensitive info, they should be put one trial also.
Road Hooligan
greg334
Veteran Expediter
"Libby is lucky he wasn't found guilty of treason."
Treason for what?
I am courious what can be the issue with treason when we have the CIA leaking info and the media who commits true amounts of treason. It seems that we as citizens should be very concerned about that form of treason.Lying is not treason, which is an allegiance to the enemy.
Also just to tell you, the people who support the invasion of our country can be classified one of the following;
Subversion – advocating revolution
Sedition – promoting disloyalty
Disaffection – loss of allegiance to U.S.
Well back to the thread subject, I do not feel sorry for him and he is as insignificant to the country as the people who went to jail in Water Gate and does not deserve a pardon.
Treason for what?
I am courious what can be the issue with treason when we have the CIA leaking info and the media who commits true amounts of treason. It seems that we as citizens should be very concerned about that form of treason.Lying is not treason, which is an allegiance to the enemy.
Also just to tell you, the people who support the invasion of our country can be classified one of the following;
Subversion – advocating revolution
Sedition – promoting disloyalty
Disaffection – loss of allegiance to U.S.
Well back to the thread subject, I do not feel sorry for him and he is as insignificant to the country as the people who went to jail in Water Gate and does not deserve a pardon.
Gee, Thanks for defining those big words.
Please explain why the press is guilty of a crime for reporting information they got from the CIA. It would appear that the criminal act was done by the CIA.
It would seem that avoiding blame is more important than solving problems this days.
Road Hooligan
Please explain why the press is guilty of a crime for reporting information they got from the CIA. It would appear that the criminal act was done by the CIA.
It would seem that avoiding blame is more important than solving problems this days.
Road Hooligan
greg334
Veteran Expediter
>Gee, Thanks for defining those big words.
you're welcome!
>Please explain why the press is guilty of a crime for
>reporting information they got from the CIA. It would appear
>that the criminal act was done by the CIA.
Disclosing information that is deemed by the adminstration and/or congress as either top secret, need to know or part of national security is a crime regaurdless who it is that discloses the information. The media, primarly the editors and reporters who were asked not to publish secerts are as guilty as the person who gave them the information in the first place. The problem we have in this country is that we allow the press to have unfettered rights regaurdless who it hurts or what damage is done and the idea or concept of protecting sources is not in the consitution but an interpetation of the consitution. all along we have put the media above the law, above the common citizen and that was not what the founding fathers had in mind and it will be part of the downfall of the country and the restrictions on the very rights we have.
I honestly think that the administration should have force an invesitgation into the leaks but this is another disappointing thing about this administration.
It is absolutly amazing that we have an investigation and spend all this money to find out who named a CIA employee but we don't have an investigation into the leakage of not one but several national security secrets that has helped the enemy.
>It would seem that avoiding blame is more important than
>solving problems this days.
Yep, see what you mean.
you're welcome!
>Please explain why the press is guilty of a crime for
>reporting information they got from the CIA. It would appear
>that the criminal act was done by the CIA.
Disclosing information that is deemed by the adminstration and/or congress as either top secret, need to know or part of national security is a crime regaurdless who it is that discloses the information. The media, primarly the editors and reporters who were asked not to publish secerts are as guilty as the person who gave them the information in the first place. The problem we have in this country is that we allow the press to have unfettered rights regaurdless who it hurts or what damage is done and the idea or concept of protecting sources is not in the consitution but an interpetation of the consitution. all along we have put the media above the law, above the common citizen and that was not what the founding fathers had in mind and it will be part of the downfall of the country and the restrictions on the very rights we have.
I honestly think that the administration should have force an invesitgation into the leaks but this is another disappointing thing about this administration.
It is absolutly amazing that we have an investigation and spend all this money to find out who named a CIA employee but we don't have an investigation into the leakage of not one but several national security secrets that has helped the enemy.
>It would seem that avoiding blame is more important than
>solving problems this days.
Yep, see what you mean.
letzrockexpress
Veteran Expediter
Responsibility - Accountability = Tyrrany.
If Bush should pardon anyone it is those 2 border guards in prison in Texas for shooting a known drug dealer who repeatedly brought drugs across the border...
If Bush should pardon anyone it is those 2 border guards in prison in Texas for shooting a known drug dealer who repeatedly brought drugs across the border...
Dog_House2691
Seasoned Expediter
Pardon Scooter NOW President,that was the worst miscariages of justice I have ever witnessed.Clinton pardoned over 200 in his last two weeks in office,Mark Reich remember him!And Harry Reid threatening the President that he shouldn't Pardon him,do it George...do it NOW.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
"Responsibility - Accountability = Tyrrany.
If Bush should pardon anyone it is those 2 border guards in prison in Texas for shooting a known drug dealer who repeatedly brought drugs across the border... "
This is where I was trying to lead with this thread... YES if Bush should do anything with pardons, it is with these two BCP officers!!
If Bush should pardon anyone it is those 2 border guards in prison in Texas for shooting a known drug dealer who repeatedly brought drugs across the border... "
This is where I was trying to lead with this thread... YES if Bush should do anything with pardons, it is with these two BCP officers!!
letzrockexpress
Veteran Expediter
Doghouse,
Ok, so when a criminal is convicted of commiting a crime,in this case the criminal being Scooter Libby, it is the worst case of miscarriage of justice you have ever seen? Hmmm... who are you, Stevie Wonder???????wait a minute.....maybe you are right ....It should have been Karl Rove!!!!
Ok, so when a criminal is convicted of commiting a crime,in this case the criminal being Scooter Libby, it is the worst case of miscarriage of justice you have ever seen? Hmmm... who are you, Stevie Wonder???????wait a minute.....maybe you are right ....It should have been Karl Rove!!!!
Hi
Greg the press did exactly what Rove and the VP wanted them to do.The VP went to Bush and ask for the right to declassify info just before this was leaked to the press.
I don't think those invovled in this should be tried for treason I think they should be tried for conspiracy to commit murder.6 people who had contact with the CIA agent disappeared and have never been found, shortly after the leak.
This was just a totally stupid move by our government.I don't see any justification for leaking this info.The more things this administration does the worse this country looks.Everything they touch turns to crap.And Im not buying their "aw shucks" bungling fools attitude anymore.They aint stupid they were just doing what ever it took to get W re-elected and then worry about paying the consequences later.The same way they look at the economy, spend now let somebody else worry about it later."Rich Brats"
Greg the press did exactly what Rove and the VP wanted them to do.The VP went to Bush and ask for the right to declassify info just before this was leaked to the press.
I don't think those invovled in this should be tried for treason I think they should be tried for conspiracy to commit murder.6 people who had contact with the CIA agent disappeared and have never been found, shortly after the leak.
This was just a totally stupid move by our government.I don't see any justification for leaking this info.The more things this administration does the worse this country looks.Everything they touch turns to crap.And Im not buying their "aw shucks" bungling fools attitude anymore.They aint stupid they were just doing what ever it took to get W re-elected and then worry about paying the consequences later.The same way they look at the economy, spend now let somebody else worry about it later."Rich Brats"
Dog_House2691
Seasoned Expediter
letzrock...Libby didnt leak that info! Richard Armitidge did...check your info before you accuss someone of something as did the Federal Proscuter did! Berger stole documents and is FREE...Clinton Lied to a Grand Jury and is still destroying this Country and running around the world Bashing Us...and making Millions of dollars.If you believe Libby is Guilty you probably believe in Gorebal Warming!
Black Sheep
Expert Expediter
Forget the pardon - he'll probably get the conviction reversed on appeal. Let's let the legal process run its course as it did in Oliver North's situation when his conviction for his Iran-Contra involvment was reversed on appeal.
Regarding the so-called "leak" of the CIA agent name (Valerie Plame); there was NO CRIME - ever! She was NOT a covert agent at the time, and had not been under covert status for over five years prior to Robert Novak's article. She was publicly listed in Who's Who as Joseph Wilson's wife, and their marriage and her employer were common knowledge in DC. If she had been covert, we would be talking about Richard Armitage's trial instead of the trumped-up charges on Libby. If he does not get this reversed on appeal, then it can be argued that he was careless and maybe a little bit arrogant for allowing himself to get nailed on perjury and obstruction charges. After all, he is supposedly an outstanding lawyer in his own right. Unfortunately, his appeal process will probably drag on long after the Bush administration is out of office, and the adverse publicity will do its damage in the meantime.
Regarding the so-called "leak" of the CIA agent name (Valerie Plame); there was NO CRIME - ever! She was NOT a covert agent at the time, and had not been under covert status for over five years prior to Robert Novak's article. She was publicly listed in Who's Who as Joseph Wilson's wife, and their marriage and her employer were common knowledge in DC. If she had been covert, we would be talking about Richard Armitage's trial instead of the trumped-up charges on Libby. If he does not get this reversed on appeal, then it can be argued that he was careless and maybe a little bit arrogant for allowing himself to get nailed on perjury and obstruction charges. After all, he is supposedly an outstanding lawyer in his own right. Unfortunately, his appeal process will probably drag on long after the Bush administration is out of office, and the adverse publicity will do its damage in the meantime.
tallcal101
Veteran Expediter
I guess I continue to find it surprising that all the Monday morning quarterbacks(paticularly those who voted for him)are are so surprised that W and his possie seem to have problems with anything approachng honesty.The very people who defended this administration one short year ago(when I began my rant here)are now publicly stating W is not to be trusted.What happened?I'm surprised any of the brilliant minds on this forum(and not so brillinant)could have ever thought about voting for him.Truly astonished.!All the evidence was there 6 years ago.This guy was no Clinton.He has always been a fool with nothing to say.He filled his administration with phonies,fired those who went against him,and has destroyed all that Clinton did to make us rich,proud and have respect for ourselves and the respect of the world.Oh yes,the stain on the dress,that ugly stain.My God,what does this bumbling fool have to do to put that comparison to rest!Scooter Bug is a bumbling fool who did the dirty work for Dic head,and willingly agreed to take the fall.Pity?Good lawyer?Ribbish.He's a fool who is a poor excuse for a human being with no back bone.A sheep being marched,willingly,to the wolf.Brain washed and marginal,he looks like what he is.Carls Roves Bitc*.
If you were one of the poor souls who have to admit you voted for the cheerleader with one failed business opportunity after another,the silver spooned baffon,then don't act shocked about Scooter Bug,and his downfall.He chose it,just as you chose his boss.
Get over it and don't waste time on this sophmoreic chapter in the ongoing drama of the worst President that has ever been elected.
Hell,theres many more chaptrs to go,save your strength.The best is surely ahead of us!!
If you were one of the poor souls who have to admit you voted for the cheerleader with one failed business opportunity after another,the silver spooned baffon,then don't act shocked about Scooter Bug,and his downfall.He chose it,just as you chose his boss.
Get over it and don't waste time on this sophmoreic chapter in the ongoing drama of the worst President that has ever been elected.
Hell,theres many more chaptrs to go,save your strength.The best is surely ahead of us!!
greg334
Veteran Expediter
OK Tallcal, I know what you are saying but why is it that many people have to call these people names like that?
Doesn't this detract from the strength of your position?
I know you will point out that I do the same but I try not to.
Also just to remind you the worst President that has ever been elected is..... CARTER.
Bryan, "Greg the press did exactly what Rove and the VP wanted them to do.The VP went to Bush and ask for the right to declassify info just before this was leaked to the press."
Bryan, I am trying to figure out how the press can work with them at the same time trying to destroy the administration. The declassification that seems to have been pointed to has to do with the foreign bank money tracing program after the fact if I am not mistaken.
Doesn't this detract from the strength of your position?
I know you will point out that I do the same but I try not to.
Also just to remind you the worst President that has ever been elected is..... CARTER.
Bryan, "Greg the press did exactly what Rove and the VP wanted them to do.The VP went to Bush and ask for the right to declassify info just before this was leaked to the press."
Bryan, I am trying to figure out how the press can work with them at the same time trying to destroy the administration. The declassification that seems to have been pointed to has to do with the foreign bank money tracing program after the fact if I am not mistaken.
letzrockexpress
Veteran Expediter
Hey Doghouse,
Where did I say Libby leaked the information??? He lied under oath. You, like many others want to make this about left vs. right. Wake up. Admit it when your guy screwed up. I say it all the time....both sides are crooked.Clinton isn't my guy either nor is Berger so what is your point???
Where did I say Libby leaked the information??? He lied under oath. You, like many others want to make this about left vs. right. Wake up. Admit it when your guy screwed up. I say it all the time....both sides are crooked.Clinton isn't my guy either nor is Berger so what is your point???
Tallcal,
You really shouldn't call people names. The rightwing does not like that freedom of speech thing.
They are also against freedom of the press. Be prepared for several long messages containing todays talking points direct from the internet.
Road Hooligan
You really shouldn't call people names. The rightwing does not like that freedom of speech thing.
They are also against freedom of the press. Be prepared for several long messages containing todays talking points direct from the internet.
Road Hooligan
greg334
Veteran Expediter
>You really shouldn't call people names. The rightwing does
>not like that freedom of speech thing.
>
>They are also against freedom of the press. Be prepared for
>several long messages containing todays talking points
>direct from the internet.
>
Road Hooligan
you're something else.
The name calling thing was triggered by another post on another forum, and I really didn't think about it - just in the mood to say it. Sorry for the out of place comments.
I didn't get my talking points yet from the right but my democrat talking points arrived at 1 am, interesting that they are pushing for appoligizes.
If you want to talk about first ademendement rights, ok explain to us right wingers what political correctness and censorship is all about that takes place on the campus of most schools and why does the left support it.
Freedom of the press was never ever intended to be taken as a complete unfettered and unaccoutable freedom but it has grown to that. We are the only, ONLY country that has it and we should not tolerate the abuse that goes on in order to protect the freedoms we have. When you allow anyone to hide behind a freedom, it leads up to problems that will eventualy lead to restrictions - we already see it with the second ademdment.
>not like that freedom of speech thing.
>
>They are also against freedom of the press. Be prepared for
>several long messages containing todays talking points
>direct from the internet.
>
Road Hooligan
you're something else.
The name calling thing was triggered by another post on another forum, and I really didn't think about it - just in the mood to say it. Sorry for the out of place comments.
I didn't get my talking points yet from the right but my democrat talking points arrived at 1 am, interesting that they are pushing for appoligizes.
If you want to talk about first ademendement rights, ok explain to us right wingers what political correctness and censorship is all about that takes place on the campus of most schools and why does the left support it.
Freedom of the press was never ever intended to be taken as a complete unfettered and unaccoutable freedom but it has grown to that. We are the only, ONLY country that has it and we should not tolerate the abuse that goes on in order to protect the freedoms we have. When you allow anyone to hide behind a freedom, it leads up to problems that will eventualy lead to restrictions - we already see it with the second ademdment.
Oh, I see. You are not against freedom of speech. You are pro censorship.
Thanks
Road Hooligan
Ps. No websites were injured in the making of this response
Thanks
Road Hooligan
Ps. No websites were injured in the making of this response
greg334
Veteran Expediter
>Oh, I see. You are not against freedom of speech. You are
>pro censorship.
NOooooo, I am not pro-censorship at all, but that's an interesting deflection.
Can you explain why the left is pro-censorship?
Why do we have hate speech laws if there is freedom of speech and freedom of expresion?
You can't, can you?
>pro censorship.
NOooooo, I am not pro-censorship at all, but that's an interesting deflection.
Can you explain why the left is pro-censorship?
Why do we have hate speech laws if there is freedom of speech and freedom of expresion?
You can't, can you?