Is your company really smart? Are you?

[Tennesseahawk]

Yet another thread about rates; both on yours, and the industry's as a whole. Who is helping who by keeping them low? Rates ARE going up; but companies are stuck in the same ol' mentality that their trucks won't get loaded unless they lowball. Thus, YOUR rates don't go up!

My lease company is in an awkward situation. For a good amount of their freight, they can get well over what my rate is. But for some, they make maybe a 10 cent profit. That keeps my rate lower. They would like to raise it, but are held back by the lowballers who think 1.25 all in is a good rate.

In a discussion I had yesterday, with another EO dude, he told me one of his customers couldn't believe Polly bid so low on a load there was so much money in. How is it hard to believe? They still give their trucks 1.10 or less to run, as do many other carriers. Quantity, not quality, comes to mind.

Does it make any sense that companies are still leaving so much money with the brokers? Are they gun shy? Have they no innovation?

As lessees, do you have a clue what your company is getting beyond the .75-1.00 they tell you on the phone? Are you that happy making that little, only because your wheels are turning 4000 miles a week? You don't have a "set rate", yet you aren't paid percentage. That takes away any legal avenue of finding out what your company bids on these loads. You have no idea if they're making 1.80 or what... only that they're telling you "IT PAYS A DOLLAR." If this is you, you're a lemming. For all you know, they could be making as much as you on the load.

I suggest that everyone who wants rates to come up start demanding it in subtle ways, every week, to the people who call the shots at your company. If enough do, maybe they'll get the hint.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

We are on the same wave length here Hawk...

With my ear to the ground I am aware rates ever so small are creeping upward a bit....and I am hoping to get our rate in some categories reinstated....carriers are again hiring dispatch staff and ringing up record load levels...Time to give some back of what they took away...

 

[ebsprintin]

If I can run 3000 loaded miles in a week, I should have enough work to start being a little picky. Picky is the only thing that will bring rates back up. When dispatch calls to see if I'll be available if they bid on a load I now close the call with, "bid high." I have a general idea of what the range of rates is with this company. These days when I get an offer at the lower end of the range, I run the analysis on "what does this load do for me." If all I'm getting is more miles on my vehicle, I politely tell dispatch that I'll wait for the next one. My last run out of Laredo started with an offer of .60 per mile going to the great lakes. The return comment when I said I'd wait for the next one was that this was the typical rate coming out of Laredo and that they would get a driver from San Antonio to cover it. I figured since I had just arrived on a decent load then sleep was worth .60 a mile. A couple hours later, the offered load was .85 a mile for a similar number of miles, and it was leaving before the previous load.

eb

 

[Desperado]

ours are up and down just according but have had a lot of shippers ask if we are hauling thier freight exclusive kinda like are you ltl us at this price i say nope your the only frieght going in box we're delovering direct

 

[chefdennis]

it is just as easier to be polite and say "no thank you" then it is to argue with them....I turned down 2 in Laredo before I took the one i got...

 

[aristotle]

I agree Dennis. We all should politely refuse cheap loads until rates come up. Owner/ops have been taking it in the shorts for too long. Never allow 60cpm 0r 70cpm to become standard. Low rates are the road to ruin. Just say "no."

 

[chefdennis]

The common 1st call for freight going OUT of Laredo is always cheap and with the explanation that it is "always that way and that it at least gets you out of there!"... i can say that i have never (and i have only been doing this for a little over a yr) seen a shortage of fright going out...yes there is always more going in, and there is most often a large number of trucks, while i will turndown cheap rates, i have gotten out with good money, and if i have sat longer then i want, then ill DH out...on my own...

I talked to a driver thrus. that DH'd to laredo and was there 1 day...I know another driver that while i sat in dallas over a holiday weekend DH'd to Laredo and got loaded out before i did, with a good rate and a long run.....taking cheap freight just to take it is up to each of us, but if you do, make sure it at least is doing something to benefit you in other ways.....

 

[FIS53]

While our company has been forced by customers to offer more competitive rates for some runs, this has not been the norm for all runs. They have lowered many prices just to keep business and to get more runs but they refuse to go lower or even match the real lowball price competitors. They know the brokers getting those low prices are not making enough on the runs to survive for long, but unfortunately the competition is hiring newbies who do the runs and don't know their costs versus profit.
Rob

 

[LDB]

"I'd like you to haul my freight for free please.". the shipper

"We can give you an empty move to abcdef for .28cpm.". your carrier

How many of you are going to say yes to the shipper who wants you to haul freight for no pay?

How many of you are going to accept an empty move from Laredo or elsewhere that's known either for a lot of low offers or very few offers?

None of you will haul freight 347 miles for zero pay and yet you'll deadhead 347 miles out of your own pocket and that's after being offered a reduced rate load those same 347 miles.

Some/many of you will take the companies empty move offer at 28cpm and that's after being offered a reduced rate load those same 347 miles.

I am NOT suggesting accepting reduced rates loads as a regular policy. I am suggesting that each load should be evaluated independently on it's own merits. Most all reduced rate loads should be declined however perhaps 3-5% of them should be taken as a better option to hauling freight for free or taking a 28cpm empty move instead of a 60/1.10 or whatever reduced rate based on your truck category.

 

[youngsamuel]

Anyone here please feel free to respond and let's see what the consensus is. If you ran under your own authority and had a shipper call you to bid a load for them what would you charge for both a sprinter van and a 24' straight truck? Price for each individual run. You know there are 3 competing brokers and or carriers and all can make the alloted times. It is 4:30 est on Friday afternoon. Again your price to shipper all in. give per mile or total.
Shipment: Ball Bearings

Load #1- from Atlanta, GA to Columbia, MO 679 miles
sprinter weight 2800lbs. pick up:1700 est
straight weight 8500lbs. deliver direct


Load #2- from Atlanta, GA to Fort Wayne, IN 657 miles
same weight

 

[ebsprintin]

No company is in business just to meet operating cost. I'm not either.

Leo. I agree. I have two kinds of deadhead. Mine and the company's. If I'm out just moving around on my own, I consider that little different from if I was working in an office and on the weekend I take a cross country trip to go fishing. It's the company's miles if they call and say they want me to go so many miles to pick up this load. I keep track of my paid miles two different ways. All miles (including company requested deadhead) against all pay, and loaded miles against load pay + fsc. This way I see how much I'm really running the whole load for compared to what the company wants me to think I'm getting paid. The larger the spread between the two numbers the more I begin to sit up and pay attention.

eb

 

[piper1]

Well for starters, 2800 lbs in a Sprinter is too much so I am turning that load down, it is truck work....not van work. The whole notion of 3000 lbs in a van is wrong, anything over 1 ton belongs in a truck.

Leo, your post makes a lot of sense but the problem is there always seems to be someone who will find that the 50 cent load offer makes sense and carriers will make sure that their truck population is high enough so that someone is always "willing".

It would be nice to think that if we all stopped doing these runs and took it on the chin for a bit by running the empty miles something might change....but I can already hear Leo and OVM saying "Is Piper that naive?" so I guess things will stay the same.

Maybe we need more load brokers to go broke (a lot have in this recession) and some of these lowball carriers who think that winning is bidding super low on freight to go away. I still think they are the problem for the most part.

 

[youngsamuel]

I am not going to argue the weight here. So whatever weight you will haul in your sprinter come up with that number and price the load.

 

[youngsamuel]

Well for starters, 2800 lbs in a Sprinter is too much so I am turning that load down, it is truck work....not van work. The whole notion of 3000 lbs in a van is wrong, anything over 1 ton belongs in a truck.

Leo, your post makes a lot of sense but the problem is there always seems to be someone who will find that the 50 cent load offer makes sense and carriers will make sure that their truck population is high enough so that someone is always "willing".

It would be nice to think that if we all stopped doing these runs and took it on the chin for a bit by running the empty miles something might change....but I can already hear Leo and OVM saying "Is Piper that naive?" so I guess things will stay the same.

Maybe we need more load brokers to go broke (a lot have in this recession) and some of these lowball carriers who think that winning is bidding super low on freight to go away. I still think they are the problem for the most part.

I see loads up to 3800lbs go into sprinters all day long. Can you just give a quote? I am for rates going up after all I drive too. I would just like to know what drivers would charge to move the freight and we can go from there. Or do we just gripe and moan to no avail?

 

[chefdennis]

Ok we all know that freight rates are low, in some cases inching up. I believe its the time of the year and nothing more thats causing this and I don't look for it to stay up, id like to think it will, but i don't look for it.

Now, we all have different wants and needs. Its said all the time, that drivers taking cheap freight are driving the rates down...well what are any of you dong to change it?? Where is the organizied effort to get drivers to say no to cheap loads?? Just what is your suggestion to MAKE the companies pay more??

How many of us have stepped up to offer a guy that is taking everything he can to be able to make his truck payment and pay his house payment!?!? Any of us offered him cash? Turned down a run so he could get it?? I am thinking no of us.....Yea I have helped a few drivers out here with a tank of gas, but I am not making his truck payment....

We can all talk about those that come into the business with no cash to even pay for the drug test shouldn't be put here, but the fact is, they are.....and they need to make money, so they will take what works for them

I understand that most people here do this for a living , some better then others...but there are those like me that could run for nothing more a bare minimum to cover CPM (which is lower then most), if I wanted to....we all have different wants and needs...

We all run our businesses different and we all look at expenses different..i do NOT save for a new truck, lol, if i want a new truck, i'll buy it....i can promise you i have a business plan and ill also promise you that probably none of you would look at it and want to use it....half of what most consider expenses, don't even show up on my books.....we all have different wants and needs. I am not saying my way is the way it should be, it works for me, and i understand that it won't work for others..

Freight rates are set by the consumer...as was said no one company is in business to just cover expenses, so to think that the company should make sure that we are making money that we think we should make on each run, it just doesn't work that way...Yes the company will try and get us to take low rates, turn them down, wait till you get a run that works for you.

We can all whine about rates, but the fact is, each of us do what is best for ourselves and that is how it will always be...we can talk about whats best for the industry and for other drivers, the buttom line is, we do what we do for ourselves and no one else.....while i can run cheap, i don't, thats because i like money, not because i am concerned for the industry or anyone else making a living or going out of business...The companies offer rates to us that they feel they can based on their expenses (dispatchers working to get us to take less per mile are getting paid a % of what they save for getting us to, saving the company money id profit, paying the dispatcher is expense......the companies has different wants and needs...some will pay more, some will pay less. We just had an owner on here get blasted for how he did business...but his drivers are happy and moving freight....my carrier is considered a company that will hauler freight on the cheap, but most of our drivers that i talk to are doing ok....We hear it all the the time that "XYZ" company doesn't pay, and we hear it about ALL carriers....

As for moving empty on my dime, I do it almost 100% of the time...but it isn't about money, there are other things to consider and for me it might be just to change my location and nothing else...I spoke with a driver yesterday that has been doing this for 4 yrs, he had never been to Laredo in those years...He DH'd down there and i think he said it was a over 500 mile DH....he did it because he WANTED to......and that my point, we all do what we do because we have different "wants and needs" ....no other reason....

Oh and as far as hauling freoght under my own authority, not a chance...too much work....

And id love to see a sprinter with 3800 lbs in it.........

 

[piper1]

I can't give you a legitimate rate because as I posted in the other thread, I have no idea if the customer is a quick payer or if they drag it out, nitpick on their bills, do I have to spend a lot of money to get my money (sending originals in overnight etc). Does my company have a lot of cash to afford to wait for payment or am I just scraping by. Do I need cash flow so bad I will sacrifice profit or can I just bid at my desired profit margin and not care if I am outbid.

As Contractors we know what our costs are, they don't change much from customer to customer or from run to run, as a company charging rates, things change a lot on each run. How are we supposed to know what our carriers costs are outside of what they pay us? We gripe because they bid low and pass the lowness (is that a word?) on to us...that's what we gripe about.

as for 3800 lbs in a Sprinter.......those are the same guys who then ***** about the transmission or the van being junk, abuse your vehicle like that and the "big money" you made on the run will be long gone in repairs and shorter lifespan.

 

[youngsamuel]

Like I said YOU DON'T KNOW there are too many variables with each load. By the time you would have bid that load it would have been half way to Columbus. That is assuming you would have bid it without nit picking every detail. So I have no problem with one sitting back to be spoon fed loads just sit and wait for the "ideal" load to come to you. Forget about the countless expenses the carriers have marketing, sales, software, the list goes on. I am no poltical science major but what is the system called where other people do the work and the ones who do the least get compensated the same? Again if a carrier wants to complain I have no issue with that, but don't say the carrier is getting such and such and you can't bid a simple run.

 

[piper1]

Ya I don't know what my carriers costs are...but I do know what mine are, and I f I think the freight is cheap why can't I complain about it? Why can't any of us complain about it?

If the carrier can bid low, get the run and maintain THEIR profit at OUR expense why can't we complain about that? That's what the gripe is. Carrier x bids 1.20 a mile instead of 1.80 so they know they will win the bid, still keeps their 60 cents and the burden of the low bid is now up to the contractor.

If a carrier low balls to get runs, and then passes on the low bid in the form of the rate paid to the contractor....I believe that is what we complain about a lot, and the companies who do it. Companies that treat expedite as a freight commodity rather than a freight service.

Those companies rely on a supply of new contractors who don't know their costs and are spoon fed the "Miles = Money" and when they go broke the carrier just finds a new body to go after.

The discussions on here about cheap rates are one way to educate a newbie about the death spiral that is lots of miles for little profit.

Because we can't bid on your load example does not mean we can't have discussions about rates.

 

[ebsprintin]

Thanks, Piper. I didn't have the energy.

eb

 

[youngsamuel]

The start of this post and many others came with a question about being smart. You and EB have almost 6 years experience between the two of you and can't seem to make a simple bid. You declare the company is getting over on you yet you don't know what they are getting. I chose to enter into this post because I don't see the sense in griping about price especially when you don't know what you would charge. You would be bidding a closed bid against others. I am not against getting a better rate as I said I drive also. I am not against any driver but where does simply complaining get any of us? I have been shafted before and it will happen again. Just being picky does not bring the cost of freight up. Say it is a shipper who will pay with POD and everything is groovy with the load. How much?
We know expedite is all over the chart with pricing. When freight comes up so will the price. It is supply and demand.