Interesting

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Interesting, I wonder how accurate this is?




Paul, Santorum Stretch Truth on Iran​


Iran is very much in the news, with President Obama signing legislation that imposes new sanctions against Iran, which has warned it may retaliate by closing a key oil route. But there was more heat than light on the critical issue of Iran from two GOP presidential candidates this weekend:

On CNN’s “State of the Union,” Rep. Ron Paul falsely claimed the International Atomic Energy Agency “did not find any evidence” that Iran is “on the verge of a [nuclear] weapon.”

However, the IAEA reported on Nov. 8 that Iran has carried out activities “relevant to the development of a nuclear explosive device.”

On “Meet the Press,” Rick Santorum went too far in claiming Obama “basically” said the 2009 reelection of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was “a legitimate one.

” Actually, Obama said he could not “state definitively one way or another” whether the election was legitimate, because the U.S. did not have election monitors in Iran.

Several Republican candidates appeared on the Sunday talk shows to talk politics and policy, with the Iowa caucuses two days away. A key topic was Iran.

Paul, Jan. 1: At least Iran is in the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, and that’s a step and they do have inspections. The AEIE did not find any evidence that they are on the verge of a weapon.

We assume Paul meant to refer to the International Atomic Energy Agency or IAEA. We could find no listing of any organization under the acronym “AEIE” dealing with nuclear issues.

And the fact is, the IAEA found as recently as Nov. 8 that Iran has carried out activities “relevant to the development of a nuclear explosive device.” That led the BBC to report: “Correspondents say this is the International Atomic Energy Agency’s toughest report on Iran to date.”'

Indeed, the IAEA report is full of foreboding language. For example, on page 7:

IAEA, Nov. 8: Since 2002, the Agency has become increasingly concerned about the possible existence in Iran of undisclosed nuclear related activities involving military related organizations, including activities related to the development of a nuclear payload for a missile, about which the Agency has regularly received new information.

And on page 8, the report states that Iran has carried out several activities relevant to developing a nuclear explosive device, including “acquisition of nuclear weapons development information and documentation from a clandestine nuclear supply network” and work on “development of an indigenous design of a nuclear weapon including the testing of components.”

On the other hand, Paul was correct when he said that even the head of the Mossad, the Israeli intelligence service, had said that a nuclear armed Iran would not be “an existential threat” to Israel. And he was also correct when he said that Meir Dagan, a former Mossad chief, had said that bombing Iranian nuclear sites “right now would be stupid.”

According to a report from the English-language Israeli news agency Haaretz, Mossad chief Tamir Pardo “said that Israel was using various means to foil Iran’s nuclear program and would continue to do so, but if Iran actually obtained nuclear weapons, it would not mean the destruction of the State of Israel.” The news report quoted three unnamed Israeli ambassadors who had been among those briefed in secret by the Mossad chief.

And former Mossad chief Dagan said in November in a television interview that if Israel attacks Iran, it would lead to a regional war with many deaths, paralyzing life in the Jewish state.

While Paul was downplaying Iran as a threat, Santorum criticized Obama as too weak in his dealings with the country.

Santorum, Jan. 1: Number one, he didn’t support the pro-democracy movement in Iran in 2009 during the Green Revolution. Almost immediately after the election, I mean, excuse me, like with hours after the, the polls closed, Ahmadinejad announced that he won with 62 percent of the vote. Within a few days, President Obama basically said that that was — election was a legitimate one.

Iran’s presidential election was June 12, 2009, and President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad declared victory — triggering protests in Tehran. On June 15, Obama said at a press conference: “We weren’t on the ground, we did not have observers there, we did not have international observers on hand, so I can’t state definitively one way or another what happened with respect to the election. But what I can say is that there appears to be a sense on the part of people who were so hopeful and so engaged and so committed to democracy who now feel betrayed. And I think it’s important that, moving forward, whatever investigations take place are done in a way that is not resulting in bloodshed and is not resulting in people being stifled in expressing their views.”

Obama issued a statement five days later again condemning Iran’s post-election “violent and unjust actions against its own people” and asserting that the U.S. “stands with all who … exercise” the “universal rights to assembly and free speech.” It was one of many such statements.

The Washington Times on June 27 wrote that Obama was being cautious in what he said about the election results because he didn’t want to be accused of interfering and providing Ahmadinejad with a propaganda “tool.”

Washington Times, June 27: While other leaders have been more out front in their criticism, Mr. Obama has taken pains not to appear to meddle in the debate on the actual election results, arguing he doesn’t want his words to become propaganda for the Iranian regime.

“Only I’m the president of the United States, and I’ve got responsibilities in making certain that we are continually advancing our national security interests and that we are not used as a tool to be exploited by other countries,” he said at a press conference Tuesday.

Santorum went on to say Obama “turned his back” on the Iranian protesters, but supported the “radicals” in Egypt who deposed “an ally of ours in Mubarak.” The fact is Obama treated both cases similarly: condemning the governments’ use of violence against their own citizens and supporting the protesters right to protest.







Paul, Santorum Stretch Truth on Iran - Yahoo! News
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
It seems to be rather accurate, other than the errant statement of, "Rep. Ron Paul falsely claimed the International Atomic Energy Agency “did not find any evidence” that Iran is “on the verge of a [nuclear] weapon.” It wasn't a false claim. The author of the piece equates "one the verge of" with “relevant to the development of a nuclear explosive device.” They are very different things. On the "verge" means on the very edge of something, the point or limit beyond which something occurs, where the next step is of that occurring.

“acquisition of nuclear weapons development information and documentation from a clandestine nuclear supply network” and work on “development of an indigenous design of a nuclear weapon including the testing of components.”
This is not the same as "on the verge". It's part of the many steps to get to the verge, but it ain't on the verge.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
What axe does this bunch have to grind? It was put out as "important". Are they supporting another Republican or Obama?
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Interesting, I wonder how accurate this is?
I linked the actual IAEA report on here a while back in some thread - read that and then evaluate the piece you quoted against it. Here ya go - you don't even have to search for it (although you would actually have to read it):


A relevant passage from the above report:

53. The Agency has serious concerns regarding possible military dimensions to Iran’s nuclear programme. After assessing carefully and critically the extensive information available to it, the Agency finds the information to be, overall, credible. The information indicates that Iran has carried out activities relevant to the development of a nuclear explosive device. The information also indicates that prior to the end of 2003, these activities took place under a structured programme, and that some activities may still be ongoing.

..... 2003 ? :eek:

..... may ? :eek:

The way I been hearin' it in the news media, I thought Imadumb**** was at Defcon 1 with his finger on the button, set to launch ..... :rolleyes:

Please someone, pass that platter of hysteria ... I think I need another helping .....
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
The prevailing thought is that since they were in a structured program in 2003, that by now they would be on the verge of a nuclear weapon. But there is nothing in the report to indicate Iran is, in fact, on the verge. They might be, tho.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
"(although you would actually have to read it):"

You know, I posted this without comment. I was looking for others input to help with the digestion of it. Many people, myself included, learn more by bouncing ideas off others. Like in "ENFP" if you know what that is. Thank you for being your normal condescending self.

The rest will go unsaid so as to insure we both don't get sent on vacation. Duck season is over any way. No use having a vacation now!
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
"(although you would actually have to read it):"

You know, I posted this without comment. I was looking for others input to help with the digestion of it. Many people, myself included, learn more by bouncing ideas off others. Like in "ENFP" if you know what that is. Thank you for being your normal condescending self.

The rest will go unsaid so as to insure we both don't get sent on vacation. Duck season is over any way. No use having a vacation now!
Well, you can certainly learn additional information (and perspectives) by bouncing ideas off others, but it's near impossible to learn more by doing that than it is by going to the actual source of the information. Thinking you can learn more by bouncing ideas off others (rather than going to the source) is what creates "tens of millions of low-information voters who hardly know which party controls which branch of government, let alone which party is pursuing a particular legislative tactic," and is highly erroneous.

Rather than risk being condescending, I'll merely assume you read the article from which that quote originates, since it was posted here, in its entirety, about 24 hours ago, and you fully understand the context and importance of the statement in conjunction with yours above.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
You know, Turtle, I have done quite well for my self learning in my own way. That is inspite of those who told me I could not learn the way I do.

There was only ONE supervisor in my entire life that "left me alone" to do it "my way" ONLY ONE. During that 5 year time frame I went from GS9 to GS12 and was awarded 3 cash awards for superior performance. Including a $2000.00 sustained superior performance award. He was NOT a condescending elitist.

Don't like the way I learn? Tough cookies. The remainder of what needs said will, again, get us all "bounced".
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
You know, I posted this without comment.
The article itself is a comment (in the title and substance) - whether you intended to be so or not (my assumption is that you didn't BTW)

Further, as pointed out, it is inaccurate.

I was looking for others input to help with the digestion of it. Many people, myself included, learn more by bouncing ideas off others. Like in "ENFP" if you know what that is.
I posted the source information - so that you (or anyone else) could go to it directly - and read and understand what it says.

That, as opposed to relying on someone's else's evaluation, interpretation, or parsing of the data (someone else who may or may not have read it, or someone who may have an agenda of their own, among other things)

Thank you for being your normal condescending self.
Well Joe, you know ..... I might not be the only person here on EO who is condescending .....

But I can tell ya one thing for sure - I do know when I'm doing it - and it is intentional :p

The rest will go unsaid so as to insure we both don't get sent on vacation. Duck season is over any way. No use having a vacation now!
Been too warm to wet a line ....... sledding maybe ? :D
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
You know, Turtle, I have done quite well for my self learning in my own way. That is inspite of those who told me I could not learn the way I do.
Why does the phrase, "ignorance is bliss" come to mind?

Don't like the way I learn?
Don't really care.
Tough cookies.
Well, that certainly showed me, didn't it! You Cookie Monster, you.

The remainder of what needs said will, again, get us all "bounced".
Hey, say whatever you want. It won't get me bounced. :D
 
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