A t/t driver traveling on a hwy in indiana past his pickup location due to fog that limited visibilty to less than 100 feet. Since this is a rural 4 lane hwy (hwy24 i believe) he travels to the next road that enters the road, he does a illegal u-turn and gets his 53 foot trailer hung in the snow drift and compelty blocks the road.A man driving a car comes up and slides under the trailer and is immediatly killed in the accident. I understand that the driver should not have done the u-turn but should he be charged with vehicular homicide for his act?? This happened on 2-21-07 around 2 am. Shouldnt some fault go on the poor man that was killed for driving to fast in limited visibilty?? Thought i would just see how you felt about this?
Illegal U-turn or vehicular homicide??
- Thread starter midtnguy
- Start date
The truck driver was definitely at fault for making the illegal turn. If, and that's a big if, they could prove the other driver was speeding and if they could prove he would have survived at or below the speed limit then there should be a lower charge against the truck driver since the deceased caused his demise by his speed. Those are big ifs and probably can't be proven conclusively. That means the truck driver is going to shoulder all the blame.
Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
I thought it was only illegal to do u-turns on interstate highways or where otherwise posted. US 24 is not up to interstate standards, it is a 4 lane limited access highway but there are intersections instead of exit/entrance ramps or cloverleafs. It was probably not too intelligent to try the u-turn in a 53 footer but I don't know about it being criminal.
I've come over hills and around curves to find trucks across the road in CLEAR weather, and it's a 'pucker factor #5' moment. The worst is flatbeds. You just can't see them well from the side. That's one of the reasons I like to see trucks with extra lights down the side.
When pulling out in traffic, the driver is responsible to make sure his truck can clear the road in time, so if he's hit, he's responsible. If he's responsible in pulling out, he would be even MORE so in doing an illegal maneuver.
Dreamer
Forums Administrator
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"Good will, like a good name, is achieved by many actions and lost by one."
Zig Ziglar
When pulling out in traffic, the driver is responsible to make sure his truck can clear the road in time, so if he's hit, he's responsible. If he's responsible in pulling out, he would be even MORE so in doing an illegal maneuver.
Dreamer
Forums Administrator
--------------
"Good will, like a good name, is achieved by many actions and lost by one."
Zig Ziglar
buckeyewildman
Seasoned Expediter
obvious the truck driver is at fault and should be charghed if it was an illegal u-turn why would he do it anyways i would rather go 20 miles out of my way then do something like that and yes i have went miles out of my way because of not paying attention and missing a turn}>
nighttrain
Seasoned Expediter
yes it is the drivers fault he made an illegal u-turn but he should be charged with involuntary homicide
he was stuck in a drift it would have been one thing if he ran a stop light or sign and hit someone or did a u turn in front of someone
but then what would it been considered if someone fall asleep behind a wheel and killed someone
he was stuck in a drift it would have been one thing if he ran a stop light or sign and hit someone or did a u turn in front of someone
but then what would it been considered if someone fall asleep behind a wheel and killed someone
Even if it wasn't an illegal turn he failed to do it in a competent manner. He's definately at fault.
mrgoodtude
Not a Member
I don't know and I don't think anyone here does either so give me or at least the guy in the truck a break...
The facts are these as I read them, the tractor driver exercised ##### poor judgment at worst as he (or she) in a state of panic tried to do a flip....
Could have been a fresh trainee out of Schneider finishing school or a driver told he couldn't take toll roads maybe some poor ##### too stupid to handle 80'foot of truck.
Point is this, it is easy to assign blame but most folks don't know what it's like to look out your mirror and see that 80' of truck that needs to be turned around and heaven forbid you would throw in inclement weather and the potential for 12' overpass.
I don't believe the person driving said truck did something stupid with malicious intent.
I do believe however this person has to live with the fact they killed someone as a result of their judgment and I will go further to say being in their shoes that period of time between getting stuck and the impact of a clueless motorist is the longest and most painful time of their life....
It is a pain they have to live with forever, the kind of pain that changes lives, family trees and our way of thinking and they have to bare that burden forever.
Swinging gallows and a jury of my expedite peers is the answer?
I would rather beat the crap out of a guy that stole an ole ladies purse for a crack rock.
But that's me
The facts are these as I read them, the tractor driver exercised ##### poor judgment at worst as he (or she) in a state of panic tried to do a flip....
Could have been a fresh trainee out of Schneider finishing school or a driver told he couldn't take toll roads maybe some poor ##### too stupid to handle 80'foot of truck.
Point is this, it is easy to assign blame but most folks don't know what it's like to look out your mirror and see that 80' of truck that needs to be turned around and heaven forbid you would throw in inclement weather and the potential for 12' overpass.
I don't believe the person driving said truck did something stupid with malicious intent.
I do believe however this person has to live with the fact they killed someone as a result of their judgment and I will go further to say being in their shoes that period of time between getting stuck and the impact of a clueless motorist is the longest and most painful time of their life....
It is a pain they have to live with forever, the kind of pain that changes lives, family trees and our way of thinking and they have to bare that burden forever.
Swinging gallows and a jury of my expedite peers is the answer?
I would rather beat the crap out of a guy that stole an ole ladies purse for a crack rock.
But that's me
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Well I got to say that the level of professionalism in trucking is sure low. After reading about this, I came to the conclusion that there are absolutely no mitigating circumstances where there would be a need to feel sorry for the truck driver. He killed someone because of his stupid judgment, period.
He/she is supposed to be a trained licensed professional who is to make decisions that other peoples lives may depend on, not some yahoo in a hotshot pickup trailer combo or Greyhound bus. This is a perfect example of why we have some of the stupidest regulations to abide by; this driver knew the rules, no U turn at all.
But I have another reason for my harshness; this past week I had the great pleasure to meet one of the worst drivers around. I can not tell you how much it bothered me when I saw a hazmat load of 5000lbs of flammable material go pull out of the dock without even one strap or load bar on the cargo, all loose drums and no Placards in sight. Did I report him? Sure did, called the cops and the company he was hauling for and don’t have any regrets doing so. He was on the side of the road with the door open and the cops all over the truck about 45 minutes later when I passed by. Was he a FedEx truck, nope – another expediting company but I would do the same to anyone that stupid.
I came to the conclusion that I wish some of these people would just find other jobs and leave the professional driving to people who take it seriously. I mean that every tom, Cheney and Shirley can get a CDL and get into a truck but people who are serious about safety of the truck, themselves and especially the safety of others are dwindling everyday because no one seems to care.
He/she is supposed to be a trained licensed professional who is to make decisions that other peoples lives may depend on, not some yahoo in a hotshot pickup trailer combo or Greyhound bus. This is a perfect example of why we have some of the stupidest regulations to abide by; this driver knew the rules, no U turn at all.
But I have another reason for my harshness; this past week I had the great pleasure to meet one of the worst drivers around. I can not tell you how much it bothered me when I saw a hazmat load of 5000lbs of flammable material go pull out of the dock without even one strap or load bar on the cargo, all loose drums and no Placards in sight. Did I report him? Sure did, called the cops and the company he was hauling for and don’t have any regrets doing so. He was on the side of the road with the door open and the cops all over the truck about 45 minutes later when I passed by. Was he a FedEx truck, nope – another expediting company but I would do the same to anyone that stupid.
I came to the conclusion that I wish some of these people would just find other jobs and leave the professional driving to people who take it seriously. I mean that every tom, Cheney and Shirley can get a CDL and get into a truck but people who are serious about safety of the truck, themselves and especially the safety of others are dwindling everyday because no one seems to care.
mrgoodtude
Not a Member
Careful Greg,
I have major respect for you but I will drop a dime to Talcal if you give me crap .....
We don't know what happened on that fateful night, I am sure in my heart though that the driver of that truck wished they had exercised better judgment I will give you that.
But until you actually drive a BIG truck again I said a Big truck then you will not be in a position to judge the mental competence of the aforementioned, it is hard and yes any local joe can jump in the cab and make it work!
I watched a Schneider commercial last eve trying to recruit husband and wife teams, they were scurrying about their mundane existence trying to get ready for their latest roadtrip...WTF
The very same company is pushing legislation that will enable Juan or Ivan to come here and drive our highways without the capacity to speak english...
I say get a clue, this person had no intention of hurting someone and if your ultimate motivation is to make a example of the aforementioned then go to it, but the facts are these this person is human and humans make mistakes and as a consequence I will reserve judgement.
I respect you Greg and am somewhat of a raving fan but you are wrong here....
Humanity first!
Mike
I have major respect for you but I will drop a dime to Talcal if you give me crap .....
We don't know what happened on that fateful night, I am sure in my heart though that the driver of that truck wished they had exercised better judgment I will give you that.
But until you actually drive a BIG truck again I said a Big truck then you will not be in a position to judge the mental competence of the aforementioned, it is hard and yes any local joe can jump in the cab and make it work!
I watched a Schneider commercial last eve trying to recruit husband and wife teams, they were scurrying about their mundane existence trying to get ready for their latest roadtrip...WTF
The very same company is pushing legislation that will enable Juan or Ivan to come here and drive our highways without the capacity to speak english...
I say get a clue, this person had no intention of hurting someone and if your ultimate motivation is to make a example of the aforementioned then go to it, but the facts are these this person is human and humans make mistakes and as a consequence I will reserve judgement.
I respect you Greg and am somewhat of a raving fan but you are wrong here....
Humanity first!
Mike
mrgoodtude
Not a Member
PS I tried to in the interest of fairness pull up info on said accident with my search engine and what I found were 20 links to attorneys wanting to represent.
Pathetic... this was one of the ad's
In a car - truck accident there may be a multitude of reasons that the truck accident occurred in the first place.
Some of the most common causes of trucking accidents include:
* Lack of Training on the part of the truck driver;
* Overloaded Trucks;
* Oversized Trucks;
* Poorly maintained brakes on the trucks;
* Driving in conditions of poor visibility due to smoke fog,snow or rain;
* Truck driver inexperience;
* Fatigued, sleepy or tired driver driving too long and too many hours without rest;
* Speeding over the limit or driving at speeds or beyond the road and weather conditions;
* Running off the road;
* Failure to yield the right of way;
* Aggressive driving behavior;
* Truck drivers under the influence of drugs and alcohol while driving;
* Driving the truck in bad weather conditions;
* Dangerous or reckless truck driver with a long record of wrecks and accidents;
* Unsafe safety systems, reflectors, lights and other warning devices and
* Failure of truck to have installed an underide protection underguard.
Dealing with Trucking Companies or their Insurance Carriers after an Accident
Remember you are NOT negotiating on level ground when dealing with a trucking company after a wreck. Accident claims resulting from truck accidents is a normal daily operation. Most trucking companies are highly skilled at auto truck accident investigation and claims practice. These adjusters represent the truck company,not you. Do not give them any type statements or sign any releases for medical records or employment records. Often the medical release allows the adjuster to talk to the doctors without you or anyone being present.
Truck companies have accident investigators that are on call and dispatched to the scene of the crash as soon as the trucking company learns there has been an accident.Further while the families of the accident victims are tending to medical and hospital care and funeral arraignments, the trucking company is investigating the accident and setting up their defense.This is why the victims big truck accidents need to also have a team of investigators on their side, fighting for their rights. Don't Delay Call a Truck Accident Lawyer today.
}>
Pathetic... this was one of the ad's
In a car - truck accident there may be a multitude of reasons that the truck accident occurred in the first place.
Some of the most common causes of trucking accidents include:
* Lack of Training on the part of the truck driver;
* Overloaded Trucks;
* Oversized Trucks;
* Poorly maintained brakes on the trucks;
* Driving in conditions of poor visibility due to smoke fog,snow or rain;
* Truck driver inexperience;
* Fatigued, sleepy or tired driver driving too long and too many hours without rest;
* Speeding over the limit or driving at speeds or beyond the road and weather conditions;
* Running off the road;
* Failure to yield the right of way;
* Aggressive driving behavior;
* Truck drivers under the influence of drugs and alcohol while driving;
* Driving the truck in bad weather conditions;
* Dangerous or reckless truck driver with a long record of wrecks and accidents;
* Unsafe safety systems, reflectors, lights and other warning devices and
* Failure of truck to have installed an underide protection underguard.
Dealing with Trucking Companies or their Insurance Carriers after an Accident
Remember you are NOT negotiating on level ground when dealing with a trucking company after a wreck. Accident claims resulting from truck accidents is a normal daily operation. Most trucking companies are highly skilled at auto truck accident investigation and claims practice. These adjusters represent the truck company,not you. Do not give them any type statements or sign any releases for medical records or employment records. Often the medical release allows the adjuster to talk to the doctors without you or anyone being present.
Truck companies have accident investigators that are on call and dispatched to the scene of the crash as soon as the trucking company learns there has been an accident.Further while the families of the accident victims are tending to medical and hospital care and funeral arraignments, the trucking company is investigating the accident and setting up their defense.This is why the victims big truck accidents need to also have a team of investigators on their side, fighting for their rights. Don't Delay Call a Truck Accident Lawyer today.
}>
TJ959
Veteran Expediter
There is no doubt considering the known facts that the tt driver was at fault for the accident.....but...... I have serious doubts that there are any blameless drivers out there. All of us have made mistakes. The only difference between us and this driver is that we got away with it. Everyone gets flustered and does something stupid a few times in their lives. If the driver was drunk or on drugs it would definately be an undefensable crime. I'm not saying that the driver shouldn't be held responsible for this accident. I'm saying that all of us could find ourselves in a similar situation in an instant. If anyone should have a little sympathy for the situation this driver is in, it should be us. So let's let the local prosecuter crucify this guy or gal to earn his keep and get his publicity. We don't need to crucify him too.
I was in this situation once many years ago. Except it was a T intersection about 5am There'd been a bad storm and drifts all over. I pulled up and no one coming for as far as I could see. I got out in the middle and got hung up on the center rut. I was trying to rock the vehicle and then a car came around the corner toward me about 1/4 mile away. He kept coming and coming, he broadsided me!
Result= 100% my fault as I was blocking a thru street HIS right of way.
The driver of other car said to me at the time he THOUGHT I was going to move and realized too late I was stuck. The ruts were so deep he couldn't swerve around me.
Result= 100% my fault as I was blocking a thru street HIS right of way.
The driver of other car said to me at the time he THOUGHT I was going to move and realized too late I was stuck. The ruts were so deep he couldn't swerve around me.
nightcreacher
Veteran Expediter
unless on interstate,or where road is marked no u turn,is it illegal to make u turn
Yep, the t/t driver should not have made the uturn where he did - but as was pointed out, you have no idea how nervewracking it can be to drive a t/t into unknown territory, if you've never had to do it - there are so many ways to get stuck with a vehicle that size. I can empathize with the driver, who most likely felt he was choosing the lesser of two bad choices.
However, I'm puzzled at why the 4 wheeler is absolved of responsibliity here. Is not every driver required to be prepared for a sudden stop due to an obstruction in the road, such as a disabled vehicle, at all times?
It seems to me that the driver of the 4 wheeler caused his own death, by driving too fast for conditions. He failed to take into account the fact that vehicles can break down, right in the middle of the road, among other possibilities. I feel very sorry for the truck driver, who is going to take the blame, and have to live with the guilt for the rest of his life.
However, I'm puzzled at why the 4 wheeler is absolved of responsibliity here. Is not every driver required to be prepared for a sudden stop due to an obstruction in the road, such as a disabled vehicle, at all times?
It seems to me that the driver of the 4 wheeler caused his own death, by driving too fast for conditions. He failed to take into account the fact that vehicles can break down, right in the middle of the road, among other possibilities. I feel very sorry for the truck driver, who is going to take the blame, and have to live with the guilt for the rest of his life.
roadweazel
Expert Expediter
I know the place in cincinati where this happen at. You have no right to u-turn on a devided hwy(unless posted that you can). I understand that the driver was lost(been there done that). Im sure no one here can say they never been lost. He was Blocking the road witch put him AT fault. That driver what he was doing when he made the turn.
Once i was driving down the road it waand hit a lady blocking the road(slick road could not stop), i could have gone around but there was oncoming traffic, I had to T bone that lady cause i knew if i crossed the Center line and killed someone i would be at Fault. We all make Choices every day that we have to leave with. I didn't want to hit that lady nor kill someone.
The lady was Charge for i dont remember, but the cop had to tell her 5 times why i was not at fault
Once i was driving down the road it waand hit a lady blocking the road(slick road could not stop), i could have gone around but there was oncoming traffic, I had to T bone that lady cause i knew if i crossed the Center line and killed someone i would be at Fault. We all make Choices every day that we have to leave with. I didn't want to hit that lady nor kill someone.
The lady was Charge for i dont remember, but the cop had to tell her 5 times why i was not at fault